Loss of salvation???

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sawdust

sawdust

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Mem said:
JS, Israelites aren't the only stubborn unbelieving peoples that God might think worth going to such lengths for. But with that said, I don't think speaking in another (understandable) language would seem as miraculous these days, given the accessibility of language learning tools that are so readily available today.
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I agree it's not only the Israelites but they are the only ones God said He would speak to in a foreign language which is why Paul quoted Isaiah in 1Cor.14

1Cor.14:20-22
20 Brothers and sisters, do not be children in your thinking. Instead, be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord. 22 So then, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers.

No such "promise" given to Gentiles. Is.28:11

Of course there is also the problem that Paul said not all will be given the gift of tongues 1Cor.12:30 so no-one can insist all must speak in tongues.
 
Mem

Mem

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sawdust said:
I agree it's not only the Israelites but they are the only ones God said He would speak to in a foreign language which is why Paul quoted Isaiah in 1Cor.14

1Cor.14:20-22
20 Brothers and sisters, do not be children in your thinking. Instead, be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord. 22 So then, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers.

No such "promise" given to Gentiles. Is.28:11

Of course there is also the problem that Paul said not all will be given the gift of tongues 1Cor.12:30 so no-one can insist all must speak in tongues.
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Likewise, I don't believe that anyone can insist that none can speak in tongues. But, of course, there's those that do.
 
sawdust

sawdust

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Mem said:
Likewise, I don't believe that anyone can insist that none can speak in tongues. But, of course, there's those that do.
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Yes, but the difference is I can give scriptural reasons why the gift of tongues has ceased while the others ignore the other signs that accompanied tongues (ie. tongues of fire, prophesying) and pick out one thing to justify their claim that one is not baptized with the Spirit unless they speak in tongues.

One is free to believe as they will. :)
 
J

JimiSurvivor

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Musicmaster said:
That covenant was to be and will be with us who are of Israel, not Gentiles. The establishment of that new covenant is yet to come in the kingdom that is to come. The fall of Israel and the revealing of the mystery hidden in God since before the world was, that interrupted the establishment of that covenant. Thieving Gentiles who think they can steal from Israel what is ours alone, dream on. It will not happen as you have been taught by your false teaching pastors and teachers.

BTW
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Hebrews says: "When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear. (Hebrews 8:13)
The language of Author of Hebrews tells us the Old Covenant was was already beginning to pass away when that book was being written. So how can you say. I, or anyone else, was taught this by the writer of Hebrews was taught anything else by "theiving Gentile teachers intent on stealing from Israeli teachers "that which is theirs alone?
 
J

JimiSurvivor

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Jewish believers come to truth just as Gentiles do which By the blood of the Lamb. Paul wrote that both groups are united together by the blood of Christ into One Body which is not Moses Covenant but the covenant of Christ the Lamb of God. Christ's blood who was sacrificed for all nations and peoples. Apparently your race pride makes you wish you could separate yourself from them.
 
Melach

Melach

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Musicmaster said:
That covenant was to be and will be with us who are of Israel, not Gentiles. The establishment of that new covenant is yet to come in the kingdom that is to come. The fall of Israel and the revealing of the mystery hidden in God since before the world was, that interrupted the establishment of that covenant. Thieving Gentiles who think they can steal from Israel what is ours alone, dream on. It will not happen as you have been taught by your false teaching pastors and teachers.

BTW
Click to expand...
the covenant already came and was made. and with real israel and real judah, you know back in the 1st century.

i cannot believe you deny the new covenant has yet come. are you even saved without a new covenant? what covenant are you in?

the pride of the chosen white people who claim to be israelites never cease to amaze me.
 
J

JimiSurvivor

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gratefuloneson said:
Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!
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A. These questions are answered clearly in the scriptures. All those, except those who have become confused by subsequent religions do not need a theologian to interpret it for them. The writings of John the Apostle are the most simple and straight forward:
7...if we walk CONTINUALLY in the light as He is CONTINUALLY in the light, we have fellowship [present tense HABITUALLY] with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son [cleanses us CONTINUALLU] from all sin (1 John 1:7).
In Greek the present tense verb does not refer so much to the TIME of the action. Rather it refers to the TYPE of the action.
The present tense refers to an action that is continuous, repeated or ongoing.
(https://ezraproject.com/greek-tenses-explained/)

B. Cleansing is ONGOING and depends upon our willingness to be honest and CONFESS what sins we commit
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.
(1 John 1:9-10)

C. Jesus told Peter to forgive 70 x 7 meaning to CONTINUE to forgive as long as the person continued to come and ask for it. You seem to think there is an arbitrary number of sins that can be forgiven. John posits no specific number. At the same time departing permanantly from the faith abandoning the faith curtails all forgiveness.
 
Musicmaster

Musicmaster

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Melach said:
the covenant already came and was made. and with real israel and real judah, you know back in the 1st century.

i cannot believe you deny the new covenant has yet come. are you even saved without a new covenant? what covenant are you in?

the pride of the chosen white people who claim to be israelites never cease to amaze me.
Click to expand...
The new covenant was addressed within the context of the Kingdom Gospel, which is in suspension at this time under the Gospel of Grace.

MM
 
Musicmaster

Musicmaster

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JimiSurvivor said:
Hebrews says: "When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear. (Hebrews 8:13)
The language of Author of Hebrews tells us the Old Covenant was was already beginning to pass away when that book was being written. So how can you say. I, or anyone else, was taught this by the writer of Hebrews was taught anything else by "theiving Gentile teachers intent on stealing from Israeli teachers "that which is theirs alone?
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As an Israeli, I am well acquainted with the covenants.

MM
 
Melach

Melach

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Musicmaster said:
The new covenant was addressed within the context of the Kingdom Gospel, which is in suspension at this time under the Gospel of Grace.

MM
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yeah thats what the dispies will say. but there is no evidence of this. just manmade doctrines. so no new covenant huh? what covenant are you in? what covenant is anyone in?
 
Musicmaster

Musicmaster

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Melach said:
yeah thats what the dispies will say. but there is no evidence of this. just manmade doctrines. so no new covenant huh? what covenant are you in? what covenant is anyone in?
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Then please explain the clearly eminent language spoken by Jesus and the disciples concerning the tribulation wrath, which the Lord stated that there were those standing right there who would see all those things fulfilled.

Please be careful how you answer this, because the eminence of the events Jesus described is just too obvious.

MM
 
Melach

Melach

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Musicmaster said:
Then please explain the clearly eminent language spoken by Jesus and the disciples concerning the tribulation wrath, which the Lord stated that there were those standing right there who would see all those things fulfilled.

Please be careful how you answer this, because the eminence of the events Jesus described is just too obvious.

MM
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which verse are we talking about? the kingdom of God came in the 1st century, we are in the already not yet phase. the tribulation wad ad70
 
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