Loss of salvation???

[sawdust]

JS, Israelites aren't the only stubborn unbelieving peoples that God might think worth going to such lengths for. But with that said, I don't think speaking in another (understandable) language would seem as miraculous these days, given the accessibility of language learning tools that are so readily available today.

I agree it's not only the Israelites but they are the only ones God said He would speak to in a foreign language which is why Paul quoted Isaiah in 1Cor.14

1Cor.14:20-22
20 Brothers and sisters, do not be children in your thinking. Instead, be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord. 22 So then, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers.

No such "promise" given to Gentiles. Is.28:11

Of course there is also the problem that Paul said not all will be given the gift of tongues 1Cor.12:30 so no-one can insist all must speak in tongues.

 

[Mem]

I agree it's not only the Israelites but they are the only ones God said He would speak to in a foreign language which is why Paul quoted Isaiah in 1Cor.14

1Cor.14:20-22
20 Brothers and sisters, do not be children in your thinking. Instead, be infants in evil, but in your thinking be mature. 21 It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord. 22 So then, tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers.

No such "promise" given to Gentiles. Is.28:11

Of course there is also the problem that Paul said not all will be given the gift of tongues 1Cor.12:30 so no-one can insist all must speak in tongues.

Likewise, I don't believe that anyone can insist that none can speak in tongues. But, of course, there's those that do.

 

[sawdust]

Likewise, I don't believe that anyone can insist that none can speak in tongues. But, of course, there's those that do.

Yes, but the difference is I can give scriptural reasons why the gift of tongues has ceased while the others ignore the other signs that accompanied tongues (ie. tongues of fire, prophesying) and pick out one thing to justify their claim that one is not baptized with the Spirit unless they speak in tongues.

One is free to believe as they will.

 

[Mem]

One is free to believe as they will.

That's exactly why they do, isn't it?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

That covenant was to be and will be with us who are of Israel, not Gentiles. The establishment of that new covenant is yet to come in the kingdom that is to come. The fall of Israel and the revealing of the mystery hidden in God since before the world was, that interrupted the establishment of that covenant. Thieving Gentiles who think they can steal from Israel what is ours alone, dream on. It will not happen as you have been taught by your false teaching pastors and teachers.

BTW

Hebrews says: "When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear. (Hebrews 8:13)
The language of Author of Hebrews tells us the Old Covenant was was already beginning to pass away when that book was being written. So how can you say. I, or anyone else, was taught this by the writer of Hebrews was taught anything else by "theiving Gentile teachers intent on stealing from Israeli teachers "that which is theirs alone?

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Jewish believers come to truth just as Gentiles do which By the blood of the Lamb. Paul wrote that both groups are united together by the blood of Christ into One Body which is not Moses Covenant but the covenant of Christ the Lamb of God. Christ's blood who was sacrificed for all nations and peoples. Apparently your race pride makes you wish you could separate yourself from them.

 

[Melach]

That covenant was to be and will be with us who are of Israel, not Gentiles. The establishment of that new covenant is yet to come in the kingdom that is to come. The fall of Israel and the revealing of the mystery hidden in God since before the world was, that interrupted the establishment of that covenant. Thieving Gentiles who think they can steal from Israel what is ours alone, dream on. It will not happen as you have been taught by your false teaching pastors and teachers.

BTW

the covenant already came and was made. and with real israel and real judah, you know back in the 1st century.

i cannot believe you deny the new covenant has yet come. are you even saved without a new covenant? what covenant are you in?

the pride of the chosen white people who claim to be israelites never cease to amaze me.

 

[JimiSurvivor]

Can a once truly saved believer backslide too much and lose the gift of salvation? If so do they need to repent and ask for forgiveness through Christ again? Thoughts are welcome and scripture too!

A. These questions are answered clearly in the scriptures. All those, except those who have become confused by subsequent religions do not need a theologian to interpret it for them. The writings of John the Apostle are the most simple and straight forward:
7...if we walk CONTINUALLY in the light as He is CONTINUALLY in the light, we have fellowship [present tense HABITUALLY] with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son [cleanses us CONTINUALLU] from all sin (1 John 1:7).
In Greek the present tense verb does not refer so much to the TIME of the action. Rather it refers to the TYPE of the action.
The present tense refers to an action that is continuous, repeated or ongoing.
(https://ezraproject.com/greek-tenses-explained/)

B. Cleansing is ONGOING and depends upon our willingness to be honest and CONFESS what sins we commit
9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.
(1 John 1:9-10)

C. Jesus told Peter to forgive 70 x 7 meaning to CONTINUE to forgive as long as the person continued to come and ask for it. You seem to think there is an arbitrary number of sins that can be forgiven. John posits no specific number. At the same time departing permanantly from the faith abandoning the faith curtails all forgiveness.

 

[Musicmaster]

the covenant already came and was made. and with real israel and real judah, you know back in the 1st century.

i cannot believe you deny the new covenant has yet come. are you even saved without a new covenant? what covenant are you in?

the pride of the chosen white people who claim to be israelites never cease to amaze me.

The new covenant was addressed within the context of the Kingdom Gospel, which is in suspension at this time under the Gospel of Grace.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Hebrews says: "When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is about to disappear. (Hebrews 8:13)
The language of Author of Hebrews tells us the Old Covenant was was already beginning to pass away when that book was being written. So how can you say. I, or anyone else, was taught this by the writer of Hebrews was taught anything else by "theiving Gentile teachers intent on stealing from Israeli teachers "that which is theirs alone?

As an Israeli, I am well acquainted with the covenants.

MM

 

[Melach]

The new covenant was addressed within the context of the Kingdom Gospel, which is in suspension at this time under the Gospel of Grace.

MM

yeah thats what the dispies will say. but there is no evidence of this. just manmade doctrines. so no new covenant huh? what covenant are you in? what covenant is anyone in?

 

[Musicmaster]

yeah thats what the dispies will say. but there is no evidence of this. just manmade doctrines. so no new covenant huh? what covenant are you in? what covenant is anyone in?

Then please explain the clearly eminent language spoken by Jesus and the disciples concerning the tribulation wrath, which the Lord stated that there were those standing right there who would see all those things fulfilled.

Please be careful how you answer this, because the eminence of the events Jesus described is just too obvious.

MM

 

[Melach]

Then please explain the clearly eminent language spoken by Jesus and the disciples concerning the tribulation wrath, which the Lord stated that there were those standing right there who would see all those things fulfilled.

Please be careful how you answer this, because the eminence of the events Jesus described is just too obvious.

MM

which verse are we talking about? the kingdom of God came in the 1st century, we are in the already not yet phase. the tribulation wad ad70

 

[Jordon]

God knowing the person would choose to believe?
God predestined that soul to be born into the Church age.

Or? Predestined to be alive and believe in the age of the Gentiles.
Or? The age of Israel.
Or? The Millennium.

That is what God predestines for. Predestined those whom He knew would believe.
He does not predestine us to believe.

Whom God predestines is free in deed, as for the technicalities you enquire about, when the Bible says Who God predestines to be saved there's no undoing that, it means just exactly what it means and if I have any doubt whether it means it's could be related to this or that then simplicity goes out of the window and confusion sets in, as far as I'm aware Our God is not the author of confusion. 😊

Peace and grace to you.

 

[Jordon]

Augustine is the one who "discovered" and propagated" the belief system of Manichaeism which was an ALL INCLUSIVIVE DETERMINISTIC SYSTEM WHICH GOD CONTROLS IN EVERY RESPECT and over which created beings within the system have NO POWER whatsoever.
Although this makes God seem all powerful but it only does so at the price of the depriving creatures of any control whatsoever. THIS is not the God we read about interceding and rescuing the human race from themselves at great cost to Himself. This is not the God who worked within the realm of time and change towards uncertain changes. It is not the Manichean God who effortlessly controls all outcomes. In fact, this is not at all the God who interceded for Israel that they would be saved rather than destroyed. Mani was never in question as to what would happen.


Whether a believer will REMAIN in Christ or CEASE to abide in Him is presented as something that lies very much within his power. He could deviate but if we will follow the Spirit we will continue to walk in Him. The anointing that we have received from Him abides IN US is and enables us to walk in Him. It is WHY we have no need for anyone to teach us and WE have no need that anyone should teach US. The anointing teaches you as we go about EVERYTHING, and is TRUE, and is the reason we have no need to be taught lie taught. God does not mislead us. The same anointing we have received of Him Abides in us and leads us on. We remain in Christ AS the anointing has taught us. We do not naturally have the knowledge. He gives us the necessary insight.

Well I believe a saved person would not faulter in there walk as God is far superior
😊