Sorry, but what does, "I think we are none here" mean? I thought it might be a typo for "done", but n and d are not close to each other, at least on the usual QWERTY keyboard.
Loss of salvation???
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Predestination , predetermines who will be saved by “marking out the boundaries” or setting forth the “rules”, “laws” for salvation; NOT by picking certain individuals. God before the foundation of the world “predetermined” who would be saved by setting standards or requirements for those who are willing to obey those requirements.
GOD PREDETERMINED that anyone who believed that Jesus was the Son of God and obeyed the gospel would be saved. So any person today who does that can say that God “predestinated” them to be saved. This maintains the fact that 1) God is no respecter of persons; and 2) WHOSOEVER WILL may come; both undeniable Bible truths.
The Boy Scouts were founded in 1910–over 100 years ago. To become a Boy Scout, you must take the Boy Scout oath. So any boy who has taken the oath and is a Boy Scout was “predestined“ to be a scout 100 years ago when the “boundaries” for scouting were laid out.
We know that’s the way it works in reality and I believe thats the way it works in the Bible.
John 6 v 44a No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him
John 6 v 65
Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."
Romans 3 v 11 There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
It's true that unless the Father draws us and enables us, we would NEVER come to believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation/place our faith in Him for salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but of course, that does not mean He forces us to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. We must choose to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Prior to my conversion, I clearly recall the Lord drawing me in and enabling me to believe which placed me at a crossroad and I chose to place my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Praise God!John 6 v 44a No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him
John 6 v 65
Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."
Romans 3 v 11 There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
Romans 8:29 - For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress its certainty. 
Predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge and not fatalistic determination.
Predestination is associated with God's foreknowledge and not fatalistic determination.
So, are you saying the Bible contradicts itself? The verse I was referring to is Revelation 22:17 “whoever desires”. May come. You quote John 6:65. Do you believe there are contradictions in the Bible? Does one verse “cancel out” another verse? Can we “pit” one verse against another? How do you reconcile these two verses?John 6 v 44a No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him
John 6 v 65
Then Jesus said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless the Father has granted it to him."
Romans 3 v 11 There is no one who understands, no one who seeks God.
Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.
It's true that unless the Father draws us and enables us, we would NEVER come to believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation/place our faith in Him for salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but of course, that does not mean He forces us to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. We must choose to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Prior to my conversion, I clearly recall the Lord drawing me in and enabling me to believe which placed me at a crossroad and I chose to place my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Praise God!
Even though our part in salvation is minuscule, and many verses seem diametrically opposed, I believe they can be reconciled if we believe God is absolutely fair and just, and does indeed offer eternal life to everyone, but everyone will not come.
Isaiah 1:18 – “Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD…” This seems to suggests that God invites people to hear Him out, consider His case, and respond.
Amen! The Lord is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9) But sadly, not everyone will come to repentance. Also, instead of pitting scripture against scripture, we must properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching our conclusion on doctrine.
Actually, I like Roman’s 8:28-30 that says we are “CALLED” by God, because that is easy to explain and understand. As much as possible, it’s best to let God define His own words for us instead of our “guessing” or “assuming” a meaning for His words. And we have the meaning of how we are “called” in 2 Thess. 2:14. “…to which He CALLED you by our gospel…”. Everyone, all people, are CALLED to come to Christ by His Gospel. Think about it. How can people believe if they have never heard of Christ??They MUST hear the gospel before they can believe. God does not just “ZAP” faith into people. He does not MAKE some believe and others He just lets go to hell. Everyone has a chance to be saved. We are “drawn” or “called”to God by His gospel. When we hear it, we either believe it or we refuse it.
That is interesting.... But? Perhaps it says something a bit different?
Ephesians 1:4 says...
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world
to be holy and blameless in his sight.
What I believe that means is not that he chose us to believe. But, because He can know we would believe?
He chose us as believers before the foundation of the world to be made the Bride of Christ when we believed.
In doing so, by predetermined when we should be born, which is to living during the Church age!
Think about it...
Not all believers throughout History are to be the Bride of Christ!
Moses will not be the Bride.
Nor will David!
They are not the Bride of Christ.
Only those whom He personally chose IN HIM to be born during the Church age are to be His Bride.
To do that?
He predestined us.
Predestined us to discover our believing" during the Church age.
Thus, making us into becoming the Bride of Christ when we believed.
If God chose you to be alive in the days of Noah?
Then when you believed?
You would not have entered into becoming a member of the Bride of Christ.
But, He predestined you to be alive today, as to enter you into being a member of His Bride when you believed!
All of the Church were chosen to be so blessed before the foundation of the world!
......... grace and peace!
Calvinism teaches, in an off-handed manner, that Christ wasn't "lifted up" on that cross "from the earth," because for them to deny the ramifications of this one statement makes them out to be pagans believing in a tyrant god who is not at all represented in the Bible:
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
What part of ALL do they not understand?
One must do some serious mental gyrations to try and relegate this off into saying what it clearly doesn't say. In other words, whom the Father drew to Christ, which was to be His chosen apostles, yes. ONLY THEY were the chosen, but Christ, upon His crucifixion, has drawn ALL men to him to be saved, but most will not choose to respond to that drawing throughout time.
Jesus, by drawing ALL men to Him, has therefore empowered ALL to make that choice to respond to that drawing. The injections into that text what isn't there with the TULIP crap are doing nothing more than eisegetical hermeneutics, which is a false, pagan practice.
So, there were TWO DRAWINGS...once from the FATHER unto discipleship/apostleship and another from the SON unto salvation and partaking of His flesh and His blood. MANY of the disciples left Jesus who were not given the understanding of what Jesus meant when He spoke of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. The twelve who remained were chosen and drawn unto Christ by the Father through their understanding of what the Lord was saying. Calvinistic failures to rightly divide the word of truth is of their own choosing.
Some may argue that I'm adding to the text what isn't there, and they would be correct in relation to that verse quoted above. It's not there succinctly. It requires systematic study to collect together the richness of what scripture reveals. Calvinists, on the other hand, gloss over the difference in the "drawing" as to Who is doing that drawing. In the one case, it's the Father whom Christ spoke in that instance in relation to discipleship unto apostleship in that very context. In the other, it has nothing to do with apostleship in that context, and the Calvinistic failures to be intellectually honest about the differences, that's on them.
Ok, enough about that trashy set of doctrines that make God out to be a moral and ethical tyrant...
MM
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
What part of ALL do they not understand?
One must do some serious mental gyrations to try and relegate this off into saying what it clearly doesn't say. In other words, whom the Father drew to Christ, which was to be His chosen apostles, yes. ONLY THEY were the chosen, but Christ, upon His crucifixion, has drawn ALL men to him to be saved, but most will not choose to respond to that drawing throughout time.
Jesus, by drawing ALL men to Him, has therefore empowered ALL to make that choice to respond to that drawing. The injections into that text what isn't there with the TULIP crap are doing nothing more than eisegetical hermeneutics, which is a false, pagan practice.
So, there were TWO DRAWINGS...once from the FATHER unto discipleship/apostleship and another from the SON unto salvation and partaking of His flesh and His blood. MANY of the disciples left Jesus who were not given the understanding of what Jesus meant when He spoke of eating His flesh and drinking His blood. The twelve who remained were chosen and drawn unto Christ by the Father through their understanding of what the Lord was saying. Calvinistic failures to rightly divide the word of truth is of their own choosing.
Some may argue that I'm adding to the text what isn't there, and they would be correct in relation to that verse quoted above. It's not there succinctly. It requires systematic study to collect together the richness of what scripture reveals. Calvinists, on the other hand, gloss over the difference in the "drawing" as to Who is doing that drawing. In the one case, it's the Father whom Christ spoke in that instance in relation to discipleship unto apostleship in that very context. In the other, it has nothing to do with apostleship in that context, and the Calvinistic failures to be intellectually honest about the differences, that's on them.
Ok, enough about that trashy set of doctrines that make God out to be a moral and ethical tyrant...
MM
Yes, praise God indeed, for God draws us with loving kindness to engender repentance in us from out inherently hostile state of mind toward Him. Those given to Jesus by God will come to Him, and He will cast none out. I find it odd that people always jump from enabling to being forced, though there are even some who claim enabling is not necessary and there are those too who absolutely scoff at the idea of God revealing Himself personally to people, though He has promised to do so, and it is in fact the only way to know Him.It's true that unless the Father draws us and enables us, we would NEVER come to believe in Jesus Christ unto salvation/place our faith in Him for salvation all by ourselves. The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but of course, that does not mean He forces us to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. We must choose to place our faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Prior to my conversion, I clearly recall the Lord drawing me in and enabling me to believe which placed me at a crossroad and I chose to place my faith in Jesus Christ for salvation. Praise God!
Matthew 11 verse 27 ~ All things have been entrusted to Me by My Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him.
God did draw these men, too!
They resisted, and God then gave up on drawing them any further!
The Holy Spirit made these men and women able to see what they would later deny having seen.
God enabled (by grace) them to be knowing He is real!
But, they invented ways to suppress the truth which God made them able to know by grace!
grace and peace .......
They resisted, and God then gave up on drawing them any further!
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness
of people, who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be known about God
is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world
God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen,
being understood from what has been made, so that they are without excuse. Romans 1:18-20
The Holy Spirit made these men and women able to see what they would later deny having seen.
God enabled (by grace) them to be knowing He is real!
But, they invented ways to suppress the truth which God made them able to know by grace!
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him,
but their thinking became futile, and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they
claimed to be wise, they became fools. Romans 1:21-22
Which proves that men can (and will) resist the drawing of God!grace and peace .......
Why make somebody else's faith so personal to your faith
And why insult that faith so much.
The best thing you could do sir is to actually walk into one of those churches and speak to those people directly have you ever done that ?
Here's one for you for most part calvinist churches are listed as urc churches here in the UK which stands for United reformed churches.
Which is all about saving grace sir helping the natural man sir, not against the natural man.
https://share.google/tTU3xRNRjesmVJ9SL
Here's another one
Home - The United Reformed Church of St Andrew & St George https://share.google/FtURsFeBlcHxTQDFQ
You can even go in there and say hi no need to be scared
Home - The United Reformed Church of St Andrew & St George https://share.google/FtURsFeBlcHxTQDFQ
You can even go in there and say hi no need to be scared
Trying to adjoin that to me personally, as if it's about me personally and my beliefs, please keep in mind that I'm not such a fool as to fall into such a simplistic trap of words. I spoke about and quoted the relevant texts. That, therefore, makes it about scripture and what's emphatically stated in scripture. If you don't agree, then please make your case rather than to try and make it personal. I've addressed teachings and interpretations, not about people in a personal sense.
Jesus insulted and violated people's sensibilities all the time those who believed falsehoods. He even made it personal when stating that they WERE white washed tombs filled with dead men's bones.
Many times, and explained to them why that TEACHING is false. There are ALWAYS those out there who will take it personally, and to do so is on them, not me. The personal aspects of what I pointed out earlier are those whose hearts are so hard that they will defend what is patently false only to try and win at all costs, as if to say, "This is what I believe no matter what the truth is..."
If I understand what you said here, which isn't easy, the UK systems of churches need a colon cleansing...Eddy Murphy style. The constant move the UK systems of churches are making closer and closer to ecumenical adjoinement with the RCC, it's a tragic state of affairs indeed.
You really need to educate yourself on the more extremes of Calvinism, sir. That is the focus of my addresses in previous posts. Please distinguish the difference.
MM
The TULIP model pretty much shows that extreme, which speaks to the idea of Yah being the One who predetermined, apart from any personal choice, who will populate Heaven and who will populate Hell. In other words, that extreme portrays the Lord as One who eternally punishes those in Hell for a choice they were never intentionally empowered to make.
Now, as to you...perhaps you don't believe in that extreme but rather some other variant. You might even think to come back and make an argument contrary to what I'm saying; as if your beliefs are representative of all who believe in the TULIP model. Please keep in mind that your beliefs aren't representative of all who lay claim to believing in Reformed doctrines and the TULIP charade. There are variations of Calvinism, just as there are variations among those who claim to follow the Vatican and its evolutionary system of doctrines, Dispensationalism, Pentecostalism, et al. The multi-flavored smorgasbord of religious medlies out there are far too numerous for any of us to think ourselves representative of all, as you likely know.
MM