Mark 16:16.....

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lrs68 said:
I'm a big fan of Mark chapter 16 but there's an ongoing debate about the original text only containing 9 Verses. For this subject to be valid how do you know the entire chapter 16 is not an addition?
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As you probably know, the original texts didn't have chapter and verse, no punctuation.
I had a really good gifted teacher for 38 years and never heard him mention anything about that. He did say if we only had the book of Romans, that itself would have been enough.
 
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lrs68 said:
I'm a big fan of Mark chapter 16 but there's an ongoing debate about the original text only containing 9 Verses. For this subject to be valid how do you know the entire chapter 16 is not an addition?
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He owned the largest collection of biblical manuscripts in private hands behind the Vatican. I remember seeing a partial page from tbe original texts of the gospel of mark.
 
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Watchman22 said:
John 20:31
( with the mistranslated word believe)
" But these are written, that you might " believe" that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that " believing" you might have life through His name. "

John 20:31
( with the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believe ".)
"But these are written, that you might "hold a good opinion without the necessary relationship "that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that " holding that opinion without the necessary relationship" you might have life through His name. "

John 20:31
( with the correct translation of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
"But these are written, that you might "faithe" in that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that " faithing " you might have life through His name."

John 20:31
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" But these are written, that you might "trust" in that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that " surrendering your life to Him and living a life inspired by such surrender " you might have life through His name."
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Rom.10:9
(With the mistranslated word "believe".)
" That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt " believe" in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, though shalt be saved."

Rom. 10:9
( with the exact definition of the mistranslated word "believe.")
" that if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt " hold a good opinion of Him without the necessary relationship," in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

John 10: 9
( with the correct translation of the Greek word pisteuo.")
"That if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt "faithe" in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

John 10:9
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo".)
" That if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and in thy heart surrender thy life to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender, trusting " that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. "
 
Watchman22 said:
Greek word pisteuo.")
"That if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt "faithe" in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

John 10:9
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo".)
" That if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and in thy heart surrender thy life to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender, trusting " that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. "
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The correct understanding of Rom.10:9

" That if you openly declare with your own mouth Jesus is the one with all power and authority, and in your seat of moral and spiritual life surrender your life to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender, trusting that the Supreme deity caused Him to stand up from the death of His own body, you will be delivered and protected. "
 
Watchman22 said:
Rom.10:9
(With the mistranslated word "believe".)
" That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt " believe" in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, though shalt be saved."

Rom. 10:9
( with the exact definition of the mistranslated word "believe.")
" that if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt " hold a good opinion of Him without the necessary relationship," in thine heart that God has raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

John 10: 9
( with the correct translation of the Greek word pisteuo.")
"That if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt "faithe" in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved."

John 10:9
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo".)
" That if thou confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and in thy heart surrender thy life to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender, trusting " that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. "
Click to expand...

Rom. 10:10
( With the mistranslated word " believes.")
" For with the heart man " believes " unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.")

Rom. 10:10
( with the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believes.")
" For with the heart man "holds a good opinion without the necessary relationship" unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Rom 10:10
( With the correct translation of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For with the heart man "faithes" unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Rom. 10:10
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" For with the heart man "surrenders his life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender " unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Exact translation of Rom. 10:10

" For with the seat of moral and spiritual life human beings surrender their lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender, to be right with God. And with the mouth the acknowledged covenant is made, being delivered and protected."
 
Watchman22 said:
For months now I've been making the case that the Greek word "pisteuo" couldn't be correctly translated into the English language.

The words the translators chose to use 248 times in the NT are believe, believer, and believing.

The definition of the word "believe" is, " an opinion held in good faith without the necessary relationship."

The definition of "pisteuo" is"a personal surrender to Him and a life inspired by such surrender." (Vines)

So it's time to look at some of the passages impacted by those definitions.

Mark 16:16,
(With the mistranslated word "believes".)
"He that "believes" and is baptized shall be saved."

(With the exact definition of the mistranslated words " believes.")
"He that holds a good opinion of Him, without the necessary relationship with Him, shall be saved."

Mark 16:16,
( with the correct translation of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" He that "faithes" and is baptized shall be saved."

(With the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
"He that personally surrenders their lives to Him, lives a life inspired by such surrender and is baptized, shall be saved."
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Let’s use the loosest possible definition for a key word and make a mountain from a molehill.
 
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Watchman22 said:
Rom. 10:10
( With the mistranslated word " believes.")
" For with the heart man " believes " unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.")

Rom. 10:10
( with the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believes.")
" For with the heart man "holds a good opinion without the necessary relationship" unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Rom 10:10
( With the correct translation of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For with the heart man "faithes" unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Rom. 10:10
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" For with the heart man "surrenders his life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender " unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Exact translation of Rom. 10:10

" For with the seat of moral and spiritual life human beings surrender their lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender, to be right with God. And with the mouth the acknowledged covenant is made, being delivered and protected."
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Rom. 10:4
( With the mistranslated word " believes.")
" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that " believes"

Rom. 10:4
( With the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believes.")
" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that holds a good opinion without the necessary relationship. "

Rom. 10:4
(With the correct translation of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that faithes ."

Rom.10:4
( With the exact definition of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that "surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender."

Exact translation of Rom.10:4.

" For the anointed Messiah is the termination of the regulated principles of righteousness for being right with God, to everyone that surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender."
 
Watchman22 said:
Rom. 10:4
( With the mistranslated word " believes.")
" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that " believes"

Rom. 10:4
( With the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believes.")
" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that holds a good opinion without the necessary relationship. "

Rom. 10:4
(With the correct translation of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that faithes ."

Rom.10:4
( With the exact definition of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that "surrenders their life to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender."

Exact translation of Rom.10:4.

" For the anointed Messiah is the termination of the regulated principles of righteousness for being right with God, to everyone that surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender.
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Rom. 1:16
( With the mistranslated word " believe")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that " believes". To the Jew first, and also the Greek. "

Rom. 1:16
( With the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believe.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that "holds a good opinion of Him without the necessary relationship " To the Jew first, and also the Greek. "

Rom. 1:16
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that "faithes." To the Jew first, and also the Greek."

Rom. 1:16
( With the exact definition of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender."

Rom. 1:16
The exact translation of Rom. 1:16.
" For i am not feeling shame from the divine message of the anointed Messiah: for it is the higher forces working in this lower world by the Supreme deity to be delivered and protected to everyone that surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender; to those of the Jewish faith first, and also the non Jewish faithers."

Exact!
 
Watchman22 said:
Rom. 1:16
( With the mistranslated word " believe")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that " believes". To the Jew first, and also the Greek. "

Rom. 1:16
( With the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believe.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that "holds a good opinion of Him without the necessary relationship " To the Jew first, and also the Greek. "

Rom. 1:16
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that "faithes." To the Jew first, and also the Greek."

Rom. 1:16
( With the exact definition of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender."

Rom. 1:16
The exact translation of Rom. 1:16.
" For i am not feeling shame from the divine message of the anointed Messiah: for it is the higher forces working in this lower world by the Supreme deity to be delivered and protected to everyone that surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender; to those of the Jewish faith first, and also the non Jewish faithers."

Exact!
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You are merely substituting your preferred definition for the straightforward English word. You think that the word "believe" is an inadequate word. Instead of attributing the "exact" meaning to the word "believe", you insist you know more than the hundreds of scholars who have done the translating over the centuries.
 
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Dino246 said:
You are merely substituting your preferred definition for the straightforward English word. You think that the word "believe" is an inadequate word. Instead of attributing the "exact" meaning to the word "believe", you insist you know more than the hundreds of scholars who have done the translating over the centuries.
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Ive given the "exact" defintion of the mistranslated word "believe" in every post. I got it word for word from the Vines Greek dictionary right after the correct translation of pisteuo. Ive copied it below for your convenience. #3

Vines Greek dictionary;
Definition of pisteuo.
(1) a firm conviction, producing a full acknowledgement of God's revelation or truth, e.g., 2 Thessalonians 2:11-12;

(2) a personal surrender to Him, John 1:12;

(3) a conduct inspired by such surrender, 2 Corinthians 5:7. Prominence is given to one or other of these elements according to the context. All this stands in contrast to belief in its purely natural exercise, which consists of an opinion held in good "faith" without necessary reference to its proof. The object of Abraham's "faith" was not God's promise (that was the occasion of its exercise); his "faith" rested on God Himself, Romans 4:17, Romans 4:20-Romans 4:21. See

"Exact"
 
Watchman22 said:
Rom. 1:16
( With the mistranslated word " believe")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that " believes". To the Jew first, and also the Greek. "

Rom. 1:16
( With the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believe.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that "holds a good opinion of Him without the necessary relationship " To the Jew first, and also the Greek. "

Rom. 1:16
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that "faithes." To the Jew first, and also the Greek."

Rom. 1:16
( With the exact definition of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" For i am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender."

Rom. 1:16
The exact translation of Rom. 1:16.
" For i am not feeling shame from the divine message of the anointed Messiah: for it is the higher forces working in this lower world by the Supreme deity to be delivered and protected to everyone that surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender; to those of the Jewish faith first, and also the non Jewish faithers."

Exact!
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Rom. 3: 22
( With the mistranslated word " believe".)
" Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that " believe": for there is no difference. "

Rom3:22
( WITH THE EXACT DEFINITION OF THE MISTRANSLATED WORD "BELIEVE.")
" Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that " hold an opinion in good faith without the necessary relationship:" for there is no difference."

Rom. 3:22
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that "faithe." for there is no difference."

Rom. 3:22
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that "surrender their lives to Him and live lives inspired by such surrender. " for there is no difference. "

The exact translation of Rom.3: 22.

Even the rightness of the supreme deity is by the conviction and reliance upon the Father by Jesus the anointed Messiah unto all and upon all that surrender their lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender:" for there is no variation. "
 
Watchman22 said:
Rom. 3: 22
( With the mistranslated word " believe".)
" Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that " believe": for there is no difference. "

Rom3:22
( WITH THE EXACT DEFINITION OF THE MISTRANSLATED WORD "BELIEVE.")
" Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that " hold an opinion in good faith without the necessary relationship:" for there is no difference."

Rom. 3:22
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that "faithe." for there is no difference."

Rom. 3:22
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all that "surrender their lives to Him and live lives inspired by such surrender. " for there is no difference. "

The exact translation of Rom.3: 22.

Even the rightness of the supreme deity is by the conviction and reliance upon the Father by Jesus the anointed Messiah unto all and upon all that surrender their lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender:" for there is no variation. "
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John 6:29
( With the mistranslated word " believe.")
" Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that you " believe" on Him who He has sent. "

John 6:29
( With the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believe".)
" Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that you " hold an opinion in good faith without the necessary relationship" on Him who He has sent. "

John 6:29
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that you "faithe" on Him who He has sent."

John 6:29
( with the exact definition of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that you surrender your life to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender" on Him who He has sent."

The exact translation of John 6: 29
" Jesus uttered these thoughts and said unto them, this is the sustained toil and effort of the Supreme deity, that you surrender your lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender on Him who He has sent to this appointed place. "
 
Watchman22 said:
John 6:29
( With the mistranslated word " believe.")
" Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that you " believe" on Him who He has sent. "

John 6:29
( With the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believe".)
" Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that you " hold an opinion in good faith without the necessary relationship" on Him who He has sent. "

John 6:29
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that you "faithe" on Him who He has sent."

John 6:29
( with the exact definition of the Greek word " pisteuo.")
" Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God, that you surrender your life to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender" on Him who He has sent."

The exact translation of John 6: 29
" Jesus uttered these thoughts and said unto them, this is the sustained toil and effort of the Supreme deity, that you surrender your lives to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender on Him who He has sent to this appointed place. "
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John 12:46
( with the mistranslated word " believes.")
" I am come a light into the world, that whosoever " believes" on me should not abide in darkness."

John 12:46
( with the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believes.")
" I am come a light into the world, that whosoever "holds an opinion in good faith without the necessary relationship." On me should not abide in darkness. "

John 12:46
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" I am come a light into the world, that whosoever "faithes" on me should not abide in darkness. "

John 12:46
(With the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo". )
" I am come a light into the world, that whosoever " surrenders their lives to me and lives a life inspired by such surrender" on me should not abide in darkness. "

The correct translation of John 12:46.
" I have come as an illuminator into this harmonious arrangement, that whosoever surrenders their life to me and lives a life inspired by such surrender in me, should not stay in a condition of spiritual and moral depravity. "
 
Watchman22 said:
John 12:46
( with the mistranslated word " believes.")
" I am come a light into the world, that whosoever " believes" on me should not abide in darkness."

John 12:46
( with the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believes.")
" I am come a light into the world, that whosoever "holds an opinion in good faith without the necessary relationship." On me should not abide in darkness. "

John 12:46
( With the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" I am come a light into the world, that whosoever "faithes" on me should not abide in darkness. "

John 12:46
(With the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo". )
" I am come a light into the world, that whosoever " surrenders their lives to me and lives a life inspired by such surrender" on me should not abide in darkness. "

The correct translation of John 12:46.
" I have come as an illuminator into this harmonious arrangement, that whosoever surrenders their life to me and lives a life inspired by such surrender in me, should not stay in a condition of spiritual and moral depravity. "
Click to expand...

John 7:38
( With the mistranslated word "believe.")
" He that " believeth" on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

John 7:38
( With the exact definition of the mistranslated word " believe.")
" He that " holds an opinion in good faith without the necessary relationship " on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

John 7:38
( with the correct translation of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" He that "faithes" on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

John 7:38
( with the exact definition of the Greek word "pisteuo.")
" He that "personally surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender " on me, as the scripture has said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water."

Correct translation of John 7:38.
" He that personally surrenders their lives to Him and lives a life inspired by such surrender on me, as the Holy documents have said, out of the seat of feeling and thought shall run as a current of water, the living water of life."
 
Watchman22 said:
The correct understanding of Rom.10:9

" That if you openly declare with your own mouth Jesus is the one with all power and authority, and in your seat of moral and spiritual life surrender your life to Him and live a life inspired by such surrender, trusting that the Supreme deity caused Him to stand up from the death of His own body, you will be delivered and protected. "
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Paul was writing this to people who had already declared with their mouths not to people in need of deliverance.
 
Watchman22 said:
Lamar said:
Paul was writing this to people who had already declared with their mouths not to people in need of deliverance.
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Lamar,
What i do is extract all the pertinent Greek words, get the Strongs numbers from the interlinear, then get the best definition of each Greek word. I then rewrite the text using the definitions of the Greek word instead of the English word the translators chose to use. I've come to the conclusion there are many Greek words that can't be translated with a single English word. But they did it anyway in many cases. I've rewritten most of the NT using this format for study purposes mostly. If there are any passages you'd like to see broken down, let me know.
 
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