Master of Divinity Student

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
NeutralZone said:
I've already covered that topic at Post #339. Below is the weblink.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-divinity-student.219828/page-17#post-5552821
Click to expand...

Please read the paragraph below so we can agree on what the gifts constitute.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11
Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are varieties of ministries, and the same Lord.
There are varieties of effects, but the same God who works all things in all persons. But to each one is given
the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit,
and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit,
and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy,
and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another
the interpretation of tongues. But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each
one individually just as He wills.

If you say the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased at the end of the first century. Then your saying
that the, "word of knowledge", has ceased. No more help from the Holy Spirit in understanding
how to deal with life as a Christian. Your on your own now.

Faith has ceased. Absolutely no one will receive the gift of faith or stronger levels of that faith.
The tap has been turned off and it's up to you to generate your own faith.

No one will receive any wisdom from Jesus; like knowledge there will be no divine assistance.

There will be no prophecy because Paul was mistaken in telling the Corinthians about the gifts.
Paul should have told the Corinthians when the last apostle dies that's it. No more divine help.
You might have to wait a few centuries for a N.T but your on your own now.

I disagree with your statement that Christianity was well established at the end of the
first century. Even in the 21st century there is absolutely no agreement on anything.
 
Dino246 said:
I have delivered a word of wisdom. I have delivered a word a prophecy. I have spoken in tongues. I have witnessed miraculous healing firsthand. My testimony is my evidence.
Click to expand...

How dare you live in the Holy Spirit we don't tolerate being in the Spirit around here.

Everything spiritual ended in the first century.

I deny your existence.

I want you to say one Our Father and ten Hail Mary's.

No I will correct that; how about you perform the stations of the cross on your knees.

Please listen to the Gregorian chant also.
 
Lamar said:
Your post is rather misleading, how about this verse instead?

hearing-god.jpg
Click to expand...

It's actually worse than that.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you
are the Lord’s commandment.

They do not obey the Lord's Commandment.

Yet, they will say they are obedient when they are disobedient to what the Lord wrote.
 
NeutralZone said:
I've already covered that topic at Post #339. Below is the weblink.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-divinity-student.219828/page-17#post-5552821
Click to expand...

Inquisitor said:
Please read the paragraph below so we can agree on what the gifts constitute.
. . .
If you say the gifts of the Holy Spirit ceased at the end of the first century. Then your saying
that the, "word of knowledge", has ceased. No more help from the Holy Spirit in understanding
how to deal with life as a Christian. Your on your own now.

Faith has ceased. Absolutely no one will receive the gift of faith or stronger levels of that faith.
The tap has been turned off and it's up to you to generate your own faith.

No one will receive any wisdom from Jesus; like knowledge there will be no divine assistance.

There will be no prophecy because Paul was mistaken in telling the Corinthians about the gifts.
Paul should have told the Corinthians when the last apostle dies that's it. No more divine help.
You might have to wait a few centuries for a N.T but your on your own now.

I disagree with your statement that Christianity was well established at the end of the
first century. Even in the 21st century there is absolutely no agreement on anything.
Click to expand...

Now you are twisting what I said. The discussion was about the gifts of speaking in tongues, miraculous healings, prophesying, raising people from the dead, having power over the demons. I even quoted the two sets of scriptures to make that point, which I am again quoting below.


Luke 9:1
"Then he [Jesus] called the Twelve together and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to cure diseases.

Luke 9:2
And he sent them out to preach the Kingdom of God and to heal,"


1 Corinthians 13:8
"Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with."

Those were visible demonstrations of the miraculous abilities that Jesus enabled his first century apostles to perform. Scripture explains why those miraculous abilities were given back then: It was to to alert onlookers that the Mosaic Law Covenant and God's arrangement with the disobedient Israelites was being replaced with Christianity.


Legacy Standard Bible – 1 Corinthians 14:22
"So then tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers; but prophecy is for a sign not to unbelievers but to those who believe.

You telling me what the gifts entailed is not going to change the fact that those gifts were no longer needed after Christianity was established in the first century C.E.
 
Inquisitor said:
I disagree with your statement that Christianity was well established at the end of the
first century. Even in the 21st century there is absolutely no agreement on anything.
Click to expand...

Disagree to your heart's content. The historical evidence says Christianity was firmly established in the First Century C.E. That information is to be found all over the Internet.
 
NeutralZone said:
Disagree to your heart's content. The historical evidence says Christianity was firmly established in the First Century C.E. That information is to be found all over the Internet.
Click to expand...

Calvin’s Institutes, III, 4:

Those who preside over the government of the Church, according to the institution of Christ, are named by Paul, first, Apostles; secondly, Prophets; thirdly, Evangelists; fourthly, Pastors; and, lastly, Teachers (Eph. 4:11). Of these, only the two last have an ordinary office in the Church. The Lord raised up the other three at the beginning of his kingdom, and still occasionally raises them up when the necessity of the times requires.​
​
So Calvin accepts the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Add the Catholic Church to the list; they recognize prophecy, miracles, and demon possession.

Let's not forget the Orthodox church which still accept the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Ireneaus, Tertullian, Augustine, Origen, etc.

Even the Reformers are divided over this issue.

You may be in a very small minority.
 
Lamar said:
I believe the gorilla is the lack of evidence that is being ignored. In other words, people are willingly turning a blind eye to what should be there if we were living in a continuance of the New Testament times. We are arguing scripture on a issue that does not even exist.

You do not defend the existence of current tangible events with mentions of the event happening 2000 years ago. You simply point out the event.

If I am asserting that heavier than air flight is happening today I do not pull out a book on aviation but simply point to the sky at planes overhead. If we are living in an age of the miraculous then simply point to it! Quoting scripture does not advance your story since the Bible clearly states that it will end at some point.

283679a1ae36b7b8b9e02fff58b69941_t.jpeg

This is so simple that even a child can understand this.
Click to expand...
TaO's comment was peculiar to me because it struck me that, although he or she asserted a claim of faith, she or he doesn't seem to recognize how faith actually works. Abraham believed God could resurrect Sarah's dead womb and proof of that reality manifested in Isaac. But, if you heard contemporary testimony of a the barren woman conceiving, you would believe it?
 
Inquisitor said:
It's actually worse than that.

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you
are the Lord’s commandment.

They do not obey the Lord's Commandment.

Yet, they will say they are obedient when they are disobedient to what the Lord wrote.
Click to expand...
What exactly do you think I believe but am not obedient toward?
 
Inquisitor said:
. . . .
So Calvin accepts the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Add the Catholic Church to the list; they recognize prophecy, miracles, and demon possession.
Let's not forget the Orthodox church which still accept the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Ireneaus, Tertullian, Augustine, Origen, etc.
Even the Reformers are divided over this issue.
You may be in a very small minority.
Click to expand...
Nothing Calvin, any priest or pope from the Catholic Church, Ireneaus, Tertullian, Augustine, Origen, etc. or any other characters that showed up after the Bible was completed in the First Century C.E. was written by inspiration of Almighty God. Had that been the case, their writings would have been found in the Judeo-Christian Bible. That's how we end up with all these false doctrines not found in scripture.

Try again, Inquisitor.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lamar
Inquisitor said:
So Calvin accepts the gifts of the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...
Are you talking about the "John" Calvin of Geneva?

The person who burned Christians at the stake for not believing in infant baptism? That Calvin?

I think I will stay in my small minority.
 
shittim said:
Many of us see and experience the supernatural every day.
He is the same, yesterday, today and forever.
Blessings
Click to expand...
Who is "seeing and experiencing the supernatural every day"?

I think you are simply making this up.
 
NeutralZone said:
Nothing Calvin, any priest or pope from the Catholic Church, Ireneaus, Tertullian, Augustine, Origen, etc. or any other characters that showed up after the Bible was completed in the First Century C.E. was written by inspiration of Almighty God. Had that been the case, their writings would have been found in the Judeo-Christian Bible. That's how we end up with all these false doctrines not found in scripture.

Try again, Inquisitor.
Click to expand...

The Bible was not complete in the first century, far from it.

The New Testament canon, consisting of 27 books, was largely finalized by the end of the 4th century.
While there was no single event that officially canonized it, the process involved a gradual consensus
building among early Christians, with key affirmations coming from councils like Hippo (393 AD)
and Carthage (397 and 419 AD). These councils affirmed the same 27 books that are recognized today.
(Google)

In the first century there were countless letters flowing through the churches in the Roman Empire.

That's why Luke wrote his letter to Theophilus!

Luke 1:1-2
Inasmuch as many have undertaken to compile an account of the things accomplished among us,
just as they were handed down to us by those who from the beginning...

Luke's letter was only addressed to one person and was not called a gospel in the 1st century.

So there were lots of letters written by many people.

We know from Paul's letters that people were writing letters and signing his name at the end.

How anyone in the 1st century could workout what was an authentic letter and what was not,
I have no idea since most people were not even literate.

I know they developed creeds (1 Corinthians 15) to transfer information.

The idea of a New Testament, a sacred writing, did not exist in the 1st century.

By the end of the second century the apostle's letters had been identified.

The gospels, as part of the New Testament, were gradually affirmed over the first few centuries of Christianity.
While there was debate and some early variations, the major gospels were largely accepted by most Christians
by the middle of the 3rd century. (Google)

What is your source of information?
 
GWH said:
Well, we should keep in mind that nature is a supernatural miracle,
but I agree that the purpose of the gifts cited in Ephesians 4:11-16
are intended to give all believers words of knowledge and wisdom.
Click to expand...
"nature is a supernatural miracle"
Did you really think this out?

If "nature" is supernatural than what is not supernatural?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back