Master of Divinity Student

[Lamar]

This comment seems somewhat peculiar in light of the earlier claim with the gorilla which, basically, argued that you don't believe in gorillas because you haven't had any encounters with any gorillas, correct?

I believe the gorilla is the lack of evidence that is being ignored. In other words, people are willingly turning a blind eye to what should be there if we were living in a continuance of the New Testament times. We are arguing scripture on a issue that does not even exist.

You do not defend the existence of current tangible events with mentions of the event happening 2000 years ago. You simply point out the event.

If I am asserting that heavier than air flight is happening today I do not pull out a book on aviation but simply point to the sky at planes overhead. If we are living in an age of the miraculous then simply point to it! Quoting scripture does not advance your story since the Bible clearly states that it will end at some point.

This is so simple that even a child can understand this.

 

[shittim]

Don't forget about love, joy, peace, patience, etc.
blessings

 

[Lamar]

Instead of being we who believe that Jesus is Lord and alive today should rejoice that we believe without sight.

I have never seen the supernatural yet I believe it exist. Why?

Because the Word of God tells me so.

 

[shittim]

Many of us see and experience the supernatural every day.
He is the same, yesterday, today and forever.
Blessings

 

[Lamar]

Jesus was clear most would have an outward form of godliness denying the power in these days, your post outlines what this looks like.
We were meant to experience God from the very first chapter.
He didn't say "my sheep read my book", He said "my sheep know my voice".
blessings

Your post is rather misleading, how about this verse instead?

 

[Dino246]

I believe the gorilla is the lack of evidence that is being ignored. In other words, people are willingly turning a blind eye to what should be there if we were living in a continuance of the New Testament times. We are arguing scripture on a issue that does not even exist.

You do not defend the existence of current tangible events with mentions of the event happening 2000 years ago. You simply point out the event.

If I am asserting that heavier than air flight is happening today I do not pull out a book on aviation but simply point to the sky at planes overhead. If we are living in an age of the miraculous then simply point to it! Quoting scripture does not advance your story since the Bible clearly states that it will end at some point.

This is so simple that even a child can understand this.

You are employing an argument from ignorance. Because you haven’t seen evidence of “miracles”, you don’t believe they exist. The problem is that you don’t have perfect knowledge. I do believe they exist because I have seen evidence of them.

 

[shittim]

Your post is rather misleading, how about this verse instead?

I posted what Jesus teaches, you found it misleading.

 

[GWH]

That's confusing the terms. The gifts described in 1 Corinthians are distinct from general wisdom and knowledge. Ephesians 4 describes gifts of ministry specialty intended for general edification, while those in 1 Corinthians are used in specific cases and likely irrelevant for other times, places, and people.

I prefer to think of it as harmonizing Scripture.

 

[Lamar]

You are employing an argument from ignorance. Because you haven’t seen evidence of “miracles”, you don’t believe they exist. The problem is that you don’t have perfect knowledge. I do believe they exist because I have seen evidence of them.

Of course I do not have perfect knowledge, no one does. Whether or not your belief in what you saw is sincere is not the issue. You can be wrong, your knowledge is not perfect. Your assertion of "seeing" evidence instead of providing the evidence is telling.

You remind me of Adam Schiff.

"Trump is guilty, I have seen the evidence!"

Attempting to provide evidence of past miracles in order to prove our living in a current age of the miraculous is silly.

So just point to the miraculous and stop the "well you just missed it" or "you should have been here yesterday".

 

[Inquisitor]

Regardless of what you think the Bereans were checking, it's what they were not doing that is germane to this issue. They were not seeking out esoteric knowledge and the Bible labeled them more noble because of it. Unlike you and those of your ilk who go around scripture and seek out modern "knowledge" from your so called prophets to scratch your itching ears.



There is no "accept or reject".

These are all supernaturally given gifts of the Holy Spirit during the age of the miraculous. They were active during the 1st Century but not during our time of faith without sight. It is not that hard to understand.


I think you mean why am I Sola Scriptura?

I use the Word of God as the final authority on matters of faith and theology. Can you say the same?

Pentecostals live off of emotions and a false sense of the esoteric.

I am not a Pentecostal.

You do not accept the scripture when the spiritual gifts are mentioned.

You will not accept the full power of the Holy Spirit.

1 Corinthians 2:14
But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him;
and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.

The letter to the Corinthians explains how a church is organized and empowered.

The church functions under the power of the Holy Spirit at all times.

I do not understand why you do not follow the clear teaching in the scripture.

Where did you get the idea that the 1st century was the, 'age of the miraculous'?

That idea is not from the scripture!

 

[Inquisitor]

No, the Bible clearly states what they did and called them noble because of it. Yours is an argument from silence.


While you don’t diligently seek out the truth but have latched on to a false but salacious stereotype.


Except that they are still in evidence today.


Without hesitation.


Fallacy: false generalization.

If I was to call folk on this thread members of the Reformed church, they would get upset.

They throw the label, "Pentecostal", around as if all independent churches are Pentecostal.

I have attended a number of Pentecostal churches and they all differ from one another.

I have also attended a number of independent churches and they are all different too.

 

[ZNP]

Hello, everyone,

I have announced before that I am a master of divinity student enrolled in University. I will be obtaining my doctorate after this in theology. I have found it engaging and fun to do studies outside of schools, primarily to answer questions. A few things you should know that may provoke questions: I am a spirit-filled believer in the context of Charismatic denomination meaning I do believe in speaking in tongues. I am a continuationist and believe all the gifts are for today! I also believe a Christian can lose their salvation if they do not walk or live the life we are supposed to live in Christ.

All that to possibly start the thread. But I want anyone to ask me anything, and I will do my best to respond with a supported response. It will be a bit slower, because I am not trying to simply debate but explain why I believe what I BELIEVE with supported conclusions that may provoke you to think or look into an idea or subject, even if you disagree. We are all brothers and sisters in Christ! So, please, ask away! I will answer anything!

Are you familiar with the Bible code?

 

[Inquisitor]

Of course I do not have perfect knowledge, no one does. Whether or not your belief in what you saw is sincere is not the issue. You can be wrong, your knowledge is not perfect. Your assertion of "seeing" evidence instead of providing the evidence is telling.

You remind me of Adam Schiff.

"Trump is guilty, I have seen the evidence!"

Attempting to provide evidence of past miracles in order to prove our living in a current age of the miraculous is silly.

So just point to the miraculous and stop the "well you just missed it" or "you should have been here yesterday".

It's not about perfect knowledge.

It's all about what is written in the text (1 Corinthians).

You are caught between a church tradition and what is written.

Church tradition is deeply corrupt.

The scripture is not corrupt.

Which one will you choose?

 

[Dino246]

Of course I do not have perfect knowledge, no one does. Whether or not your belief in what you saw is sincere is not the issue. You can be wrong, your knowledge is not perfect. Your assertion of "seeing" evidence instead of providing the evidence is telling.

You remind me of Adam Schiff.

"Trump is guilty, I have seen the evidence!"

Attempting to provide evidence of past miracles in order to prove our living in a current age of the miraculous is silly.

So just point to the miraculous and stop the "well you just missed it" or "you should have been here yesterday".

I have delivered a word of wisdom. I have delivered a word a prophecy. I have spoken in tongues. I have witnessed miraculous healing firsthand. My testimony is my evidence.

 

[Lamar]

I posted what Jesus teaches, you found it misleading.

I posted what Jesus taught and nothing else.

You posted what Jesus said and added your twist.

 

[Lamar]

I have delivered a word of wisdom. I have delivered a word a prophecy. I have spoken in tongues. I have witnessed miraculous healing firsthand. My testimony is my evidence.

Jim Jones claimed the same thing. What is your point???

 

[Lamar]

It's not about perfect knowledge.

It's all about what is written in the text (1 Corinthians).

You are caught between a church tradition and what is written.

Church tradition is deeply corrupt.

The scripture is not corrupt.

Which one will you choose?

Your comments are shallow and emotional.

Try explaining the lack of prima facie to your assertions.

 

[Dino246]

Jim Jones claimed the same thing. What is your point???

Wow, okay. You just crossed the jackdonkey line. Have a nice life.

 

[NeutralZone]

You can believe whatever you wish. Scripture at 1 Corinthians 13:8 says otherwise.

While on earth, Jesus gave his apostles the power to perform miracles, which included healing the sick and even raising the dead. For instance, Peter raised the deceased Tabitha (Dorcas) at Acts 9:36-42. Similarly, Peter raised Euʹty·chus from the dead at Acts 20:7-12

Luke 9:1
"Then he [Jesus] called the Twelve together and gave them power and authority over all the demons and to cure diseases.

Luke 9:2
And he sent them out to preach the Kingdom of God and to heal,"


No one since the 1st century C.E. (when the last of Jesus' apostles died) has had authority over the demons, has had the ability to almost instantaneously cure diseases, much less raise people from the dead. But you expect me to believe that speaking in tongues, which was included among the aforementioned miraculous abilities, somehow survived into our century while the other miraculous abilities did not.

By the way, when someone is "speaking in tongues" at a Pentacostal gather, what language, might I ask, are they speaking?

Is that so? Why then in Church history are their reports of miracles, demons being cast out, dead raising? Also, you do realize that the first century would not have been the completion of that which is perfect? (If you suppose the Bible), it was still being selected. Also, why would Paul impart spiritual gifts in a Church other than the apostles (Romans 1:11)? I am fascinated by your response, and I DO hope you have answers.

Miracles and raising the dead, you claim, after the last of Jesus' First Century apostles died and those miraculous abilities ended with them. I can see why many people (Pentacostals and others) want to drag "speaking in tongues" and "faith healing" into the 21st century by claiming 1 Corinthians 13:8 hasn't yet been fulfilled. It's a convenient way for them to refuse to be corrected by scripture while giving the impression that they are, in fact, obeying scripture.

Well, I've got news for you and such ones: The only reason why those gifts were given to Jesus' First Century apostles was to signal to onlookers that God's attention had shifted from the Jewish religion to Christianity.

Berean Standard Bible – 1 Corinthians 14:22
"Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers."


Since Christianity was well established by the end of the First Century C.E. when the last of Jesus' apostles died, there was no further need to signal to onlookers that Christianity was the way to go. And there certainly is no need for "speaking in tongues" today in Christian churches some 2,000 years after Christianity has been well established. Or are you telling those reading this thread that the congregants at churches where people "speak in tongues" are unbelievers?


By the way, you didn't answer my question regarding what language is being spoken by the person(s) claiming to be speaking in tongues.

 

[NeutralZone]

I did not say that only tongues survived into the 21st century.

On the topic of tongues please read the following verse.

1 Corinthians 14:2
For one who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God; for no one understands,
but in his spirit he speaks mysteries.

An interpreter of tongues is not someone who Google translates, an interpreter is someone
whom is gifted to translate spiritual language.

When your speaking to God in the Spirit your not repeating the Hail Mary ten times.

You have a choice to make.

Will you pray in the spirit or with your mind.

I've already covered that topic at Post #339. Below is the weblink.

https://christianchat.com/bible-dis...-divinity-student.219828/page-17#post-5552821