Location doesn't matter?? Well the location is also a fulfilled prophecy so it does matter.
More about Israel.
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Location doesn't matter?? Well the location is also a fulfilled prophecy so it does matter.
So God lied ....he said he would scatter then regather? Also time of the Gentiles are concluded at some point which God focuses on Israel.
In fact I like your post it proves my point on Israel. Let's look at the full content of the discussion shall we? By the way its matt 21:43.
Mat 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.
Mat 21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a prophet.
Now read 45 very carefully....now 46.....
It would help knowing who and what a Pharisee is and how they became priest.
Why did they fear the crowd if all were in agreement?
Looking beyond this i see no other nation mentioned nor do I see the church mentioned.
The "nation" is the one to whom the kingdom of God will be given to.
It began exclusively with the Jews and the free offer continues to them.
Don't be so rattled by the fact that God has also included believing Gentiles.
The kingdom of heaven is a spiritual nation in which ethnicity has no relevance.
All who have the spirit of God are counted as rightful citizens.
To add to that, only ethnicity of Jesus matters, born again with Jesus blood.
Im not rattled by gentiles being included but at the end of the age imo the nation is what Jesus presents to God.
When the new Jerusalem and God himself descends to tabernacle with his chosen on the new heaven and earth.
The old past away.
This may be your answer to the land being given eternally
I could be wrong.
The New Heaven and the New Earth
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
All things are to the glory of the father.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
All things are to the glory of the father.
Do you think the New Earth will be a new planet or a renewal of this present earth?
The new Jerusalem, new heaven and earth.
I think this is the vision we all have of the eternal kingdom.
Yes, as all earthly nations are to be destroyed it only makes sense that an eternal land promise would continue there.
The promise however was made to Jesus, and the inheritors of it are in Him.
When Jesus told the Pharisees "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you", He was not speaking of a separate kingdom other than the one that He was appointed king over.
He is the king of Israel after the line of David, so we may all know that the God He came to reconcile us with is the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
Jesus also remained in this role after He ascended, and continues as King even now.
The beginning of the "millennial reign" I think is described in Luke 16:16:
"The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it."
Of course the world is full of rebellion against the kingdom of God, and we see that all coming to a head in Rev. 20.
In my understanding the "rapture", the destruction of the world, the re creation heaven and earth and the second coming of Christ all come together as a single event.
A new recreated planet.
Fire will cleanse all sin and death.
No sign of sin will remain.
Rev 21:4-5
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. 5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
When will it happen. ?
Before or after the 1000 years. ?
God Will Dwell in Their Midst Forever!
The glorious promise of God's eternal dwelling is a single, unbroken covenant reality running from the Old Testament prophets to the final consummation of the Church. Look at how Scripture links this eternal dwelling:
To interpret Ezekiel’s 'sanctuary' as a physical, earthly temple built with bricks and animal sacrifices completely misses the New Testament reality. Christ Himself is the true Temple (John 2:19), and through union with Him, the Church is legally and spiritually declared to be the living temple of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:21-22).
Ezekiel’s prophecy that the sanctuary would be in our midst 'for evermore' is the exact same reality Paul writes of when he states that the resurrected saints shall 'ever be with the Lord' (1 Thess 4:17), and that John sees fulfilled in the New Jerusalem where God and the Lamb are our eternal light (Rev 21:23). There are not two separate destinations or two separate peoples. There is one covenant, one election, and one eternal city for the seed of Abraham, which comprises every single believer chosen in Christ "+ nothing" before the foundation of the world (Gal 3:29, Eph 1:4). 4
The glorious promise of God's eternal dwelling is a single, unbroken covenant reality running from the Old Testament prophets to the final consummation of the Church. Look at how Scripture links this eternal dwelling:
- Ezekiel 37:28: “And the heathen shall know that I the Lord do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore.”
- 1 Thessalonians 4:17: “Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
- Revelation 21:22-23: “And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.”
To interpret Ezekiel’s 'sanctuary' as a physical, earthly temple built with bricks and animal sacrifices completely misses the New Testament reality. Christ Himself is the true Temple (John 2:19), and through union with Him, the Church is legally and spiritually declared to be the living temple of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:21-22).
Ezekiel’s prophecy that the sanctuary would be in our midst 'for evermore' is the exact same reality Paul writes of when he states that the resurrected saints shall 'ever be with the Lord' (1 Thess 4:17), and that John sees fulfilled in the New Jerusalem where God and the Lamb are our eternal light (Rev 21:23). There are not two separate destinations or two separate peoples. There is one covenant, one election, and one eternal city for the seed of Abraham, which comprises every single believer chosen in Christ "+ nothing" before the foundation of the world (Gal 3:29, Eph 1:4). 4
Isaiah 65:12-16
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
Who is the 'But ye' in the following prophecy. The unbelievers. They still proclaim to be the children of those who crucified the Son of God just as God said in Isaiah 65:15.
7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
8 For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed.
Mind you, Jesus quoted from the first half of Isaiah 61 and said it was fullfilled. Jesus brought the Kingdom and saved the remnant. The rest were cut off.
12 Therefore will I number you to the sword, and ye shall all bow down to the slaughter: because when I called, ye did not answer; when I spake, ye did not hear; but did evil before mine eyes, and did choose that wherein I delighted not.
13 Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, my servants shall eat, but ye shall be hungry: behold, my servants shall drink, but ye shall be thirsty: behold, my servants shall rejoice, but ye shall be ashamed:
14 Behold, my servants shall sing for joy of heart, but ye shall cry for sorrow of heart, and shall howl for vexation of spirit.
15 And ye shall leave your name for a curse unto my chosen: for the Lord God shall slay thee, and call his servants by another name:
16 That he who blesseth himself in the earth shall bless himself in the God of truth; and he that sweareth in the earth shall swear by the God of truth; because the former troubles are forgotten, and because they are hid from mine eyes.
Who is the 'But ye' in the following prophecy. The unbelievers. They still proclaim to be the children of those who crucified the Son of God just as God said in Isaiah 65:15.
Isaiah 61
6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the Lord: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.7 For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them.
8 For I the Lord love judgment, I hate robbery for burnt offering; and I will direct their work in truth, and I will make an everlasting covenant with them.
9 And their seed shall be known among the Gentiles, and their offspring among the people: all that see them shall acknowledge them, that they are the seed which the Lord hath blessed.
Mind you, Jesus quoted from the first half of Isaiah 61 and said it was fullfilled. Jesus brought the Kingdom and saved the remnant. The rest were cut off.
Scratch that from the record. I am currently reading Sam Storms' book on Amillennialism, very convincing, recommend it to everyone! Praise God, we get to go straight into the new heaven and new earth with no death. I would hope so atleast
Wasn't addressed to me but I believe in an open forum we should be able to respond regardless, am I right? I believe it is a renewal because the Bible also says that 'the earth abideth forever' and when you compare that to what Peter says in his second epistle we get a comparison:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
2Pe 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
From this we see that the world was already destroyed once, yet here we are still, the earth is still here. I believe the same thing will happen in the future except that instead of water it will be fire.
I have read Sam's book. He makes a good case for Amil. But like all the other views, there is a downside to it.
This is another "hear something but see something else" occurrence in Revelation.
In chapter 21 we have this account:
9Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”
So, John hears "I will show you the Lamb's wife". One would expect to see a woman.
Instead, this is what he sees:
10And he carried me away in the Spirit
This is a clue that John will see something spiritual not something natural. So everything that follows has a spiritual meaning...
to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
This is the holy Jerusalem. This is the Bride, the Lamb's wife.
I don't have time to unpack this (it would take pages) but notice this portion a bit later:
"And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb."
This should cue you into something Jesus said earlier:
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”
In short, we should not expect a city like New York city coming out of heaven with its buildings, roads, etc. This city is the collection of saints aligned to the standards and glory of Christ. A "city" after all, may include no buildings. It should be understood to be people who live by the same order. Here, in New Jerusalem, the order originates from the Head: the Lord Christ Jesus.
In chapter 21 we have this account:
9Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, “Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.”
So, John hears "I will show you the Lamb's wife". One would expect to see a woman.
Instead, this is what he sees:
10And he carried me away in the Spirit
This is a clue that John will see something spiritual not something natural. So everything that follows has a spiritual meaning...
to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west.
This is the holy Jerusalem. This is the Bride, the Lamb's wife.
I don't have time to unpack this (it would take pages) but notice this portion a bit later:
"And he showed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb."
This should cue you into something Jesus said earlier:
"He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water.”
In short, we should not expect a city like New York city coming out of heaven with its buildings, roads, etc. This city is the collection of saints aligned to the standards and glory of Christ. A "city" after all, may include no buildings. It should be understood to be people who live by the same order. Here, in New Jerusalem, the order originates from the Head: the Lord Christ Jesus.