My one big problem with this belief system (bible alone)

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It does not matter whether the reasoning is true or false, it still comes from the human mind. I do not think you understand the connection between human reason and the human mind. Whether the conclusion is true or false, it is still human reason.

At any rate, how do you conclude that the Bible is the product of human reason?


As a book that is the word of a supreme intelligence and supreme being then it's a confusing, difficult to read book.

However if viewed as a book written by primitive men who had no clue of the universe, the cosmos and the forces of nature etc then it makes perfect sense.
 
As a book that is the word of a supreme intelligence and supreme being then it's a confusing, difficult to read book.
Why?

However if viewed as a book written by primitive men who had no clue of the universe, the cosmos and the forces of nature etc then it makes perfect sense.
If you think it to be written by ignorant men why do you think it makes sense?
 
No were in the bible does it talk about stem cell research and if we should use embryos; or what type or if any contraception is ok, or even if a man and women aren't sexually active if it is ok to live together before marriage. So no the bible isn't complete with all the answers of Christian life

You are talking ethics here, not revelation! Ethics is about HOW to live. As Christians, we can use the principles laid down by the Bible to determine the right way to live. As believers, we do not need every detail of every issue laid out. When I did my chaplaincy practicum in a Lutheran long term care facility, I had a book full of papers on ethics in concerning caring for the sick, the disabled and end of life issues like palliative care, and dying with dignity.

I just watched a movie on Jack Kevorkian last night, "Doctor Death." He was an atheist and he believed murder was the answer to all suffering and pain. Many of his murders were people who were clinically depressed, who had years to live. The Bible upholds the sanctity if life. I'm glad Kevorkian was stopped, a mass serial killer. But it is to be expected when you make yourself god, instead of Jesus! When you do not follow the Bible!

Here is a further definition of ethics. I suggest you read some books on Christian ethics, and then you will truly understand the Bible is self sufficient for revelation and salvation, but also as the foundation for ethics.

Ethics
plural noun
1.
(used with a singular or plural verb) a system of moral principles:
the ethics of a culture.
2.
the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.:
medical ethics; Christian ethics.
3.
moral principles, as of an individual:
His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
4.
(usually used with a singular verb) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.

Ethics | Define Ethics at Dictionary.com
 
Believing the Bible is like saying....

"Hey God, I don't want to do things: ~ My way ~ , but I want to do things: ~ Your way ~; So I am going to trust your Word by FAITH and follow and love you as: ~ You desire ~ ."

Anyways, I hope this helps.
And may God bless you.
 
How does one know of Jesus Who is able to save if one does not have the bible? How does one know of God who created all things if one does not have the bible?

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Jesus never said "read the book" he said keep the commandments and have faith

There was only one "book" Jesus quoted from frequently, citing what we know as Old Testament scripture books.
John 5:46-47 (KJV) [SUP]46 [/SUP] For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. [SUP]47 [/SUP] But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? That makes that part of the Bible extremely important for us too if we are His disciples. How could we reject that? Jesus didn't. The single original source of Jesus' teaching and sermons, though, was cited by Him to be received directly from God the Father. No other source was claimed by Jesus.

More evidence of what you seek.
He declared in John 15:26-27 (KJV) [SUP]26 [/SUP] But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me: [SUP]27 [/SUP] And ye also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning.
Be sure to examine that in context within at least that chapter full of assurance. That was the extent of authorization by Jesus concerning how the remainder of the Word would be delivered for future disciples to preach, by that witness of the apostles who were with him those short years.

Beyond that comes the apostle Paul, endorsed by apostle Peter, chastised Peter in his error, accepted among the apostles, among the first counsel at Jerusalem in Acts 15, his testimony and message well verified by all. Luke was included, a disciple of Paul, writing two NT books. Not one of those NT books has a single contradiction between authors, just one of the many tests scholars applied in identifying inspired scripture. Since then other books offered after their time have failed one or more of the wise tests applied. The Bible message is closed. God's message has already been told. It is for us to preach and teach it, testifying of Christ in us. Preach what? The gospel of Christ.

Mark 16:15 (KJV) [SUP]15 [/SUP] And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.


Paul warned not to receive any other gospel he didn't preach.
Galatians 1:8 (KJV) [SUP]8 [/SUP] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
If any other new "word of God" arises that contradicts what the apostles preached, it is unacceptable. That in itself closes the textual source, confining the message from God to what is said in the 66 books.

I am every day assisted by the Holy Spirit, not to originate anything, but to recall what I've already known from reading the Bible many times, studying diligently many decades. He will not tell me a scripture the apostles didn't receive to be testified to anyone. Can God talk to me and reveal special information? Of course. But He will not use me to add authoritative scripture, therefore never to be a source of inspiration.
 
I will give a little back ground
i was a humanist/ relativist/ universalist until I was 33
I have a bachelors from an Ivy League college
i own a business that does millions in volume every year
i have read the bible at least 20 times

Now I take jesus as my savor
a) because it is logical and historical
b) because it saved my marriage and my business


what I can't find as logical or historical is the concept of bible as the only rule of faith

1) the last book in the bible wasn't written until 95ad and the bible wasn't bound and distributed until the 300's and even then only very limited until the advent of the printing press
2) the Christians in Goa India went 1500 years without a New Testament
3) the bible disputes it in 1 Tim 3:15, (2 Thess. 2:15) to name just a few
4) no were in the bible does it say what books belong in the bible
5) no were in the bible does it say clearly the bible is all we need
6) jesus didn't write the bible
7) I can't find any of the first Christians supporting it only contradicting it
Oh, my dear one,

I'm not hearing the right things, and am hearing the wrong things.

So I will say only a couple of things to you:

1) Logic and history will never give you understanding of God and his truth.

2) Only the Holy Spirit can show you that the Bible is the word and truth of God,
to be received, believed and obeyed.
 
Believing the Bible is like saying....




"Hey God, I don't want to do things: ~ My way ~ , but I want to do things: ~ Your way ~; So I am going to trust your Word by FAITH and follow and love you as: ~ You desire ~ ."

Anyways, I hope this helps.
And may God bless you.


[SUP]5 Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith-
[/SUP]
to speaker and listener.
may god, bless you.
 
I mean, one of the tactics of the devil has always been to add to the Word of God. He did in the Garden of Eden with Eve and he still does it today. The Catholics and Jehovah's Witnesses have church writings that add to the Word of God. The Mormons and the Muslims have additional books that add to the Word of God. People all over are cropping up out of the wood work with a new vision or dream trying to add to the Word of God.

I highly recommend checking out this article here:

Signs and Wonders Heresies
(Note: Not all views or beliefs expressed by the author or this website express my views or beliefs; I am merely in agreement with the truth of this article).

Hope this helps.

And may God bless you.

You make it sound like God isn't even allowed to add to His own Word, what a shame to put the Spirit in a box contrary to the book you believe to be the whole truth. What do you think the Spirit, the comforter does nowadays, pump gas at a citgo...
 
Oh, my dear one,

I'm not hearing the right things, and am hearing the wrong things.

So I will say only a couple of things to you:

1) Logic and history will never give you understanding of God and his truth.

2) Only the Holy Spirit can show you that the Bible is the word and truth of God,
to be received, believed and obeyed.


Would you say God is a god of order or disorder, because if we use the bible as the only rule of faith without finding out what the authors meant we could be going in circles, wait we are going in circles it is clear the bible as the only rule of faith has lead to groups using the bible to support all sorts of sinful acts, The ELCA and the Pca USA both endorse abortion and adhere to sola scriptoria.

Answer to #2 what is someone else's holy spirt is right and yours is wrong.


in an ideal world wouldn't it be great if we could go to John directly and say was john 6 literal or figurative ?
 
You make it sound like God isn't even allowed to add to His own Word, what a shame to put the Spirit in a box contrary to the book you believe to be the whole truth. What do you think the Spirit, the comforter does nowadays, pump gas at a citgo...

Maybe we wouldn't add to it but it would be nice if there was an authority to tell us what the bible believes
 
You make it sound like God isn't even allowed to add to His own Word, what a shame to put the Spirit in a box contrary to the book you believe to be the whole truth. What do you think the Spirit, the comforter does nowadays, pump gas at a citgo...
Right, God does not add to his word written.

There is no one walking around today who received his instruction from Jesus personally that he should be adding it to the word of God written.
 
Would you say God is a god of order or disorder, because if we use the bible as the only rule of faith without finding out what the authors meant we could be going in circles, wait we are going in circles it is clear the bible as the only rule of faith has lead to groups using the bible to support all sorts of sinful acts, The ELCA and the Pca USA both endorse abortion and adhere to sola scriptoria.

Answer to #2 what is someone else's holy spirt is right and yours is wrong.


in an ideal world wouldn't it be great if we could go to John directly and say was john 6 literal or figurative ?
God has ordained things the way they are for his own purposes, one of them being to keep imposters from truly understanding his revelation, but his sheep are given the understanding which saves, and the rest is simply his setting for the jewel of salvation.
 
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Maybe we wouldn't add to it but it would be nice if there was an authority to tell us what the bible believes
God has made that the Holy Spirit.

We have a religious group who has an authority to tell them what the Bible believes,

and they have the core of the gospel wrong, and their adherents are not free to learn the truth.

So that's not a good system either.

We're left with trusting the Holy Spirit to do his job of enlightening to salvation.
 
Right, God does not add to his word written.

There is no one walking around today who received his instruction from Jesus personally that he should be adding it to the word of God written.
True, not the physical Jesus that walked on earth, but the Spiritual
That all depends on if someone believes in a trinity or not, some who don't believe this theory know that the scriptures say He Jesus shall be called Wonderful, COUNSELOR, and this Counselor is also the Holy Spirit. Jesus Goes to the Father physically and spiritually and Spiritually returns to be in oneself as since the day of pentecost Where His Spirit is poured out on everyone. So when Jesus says, I am in you, He means it.
 
True, not the physical Jesus that walked on earth, but the Spiritual
That all depends on if someone believes in a trinity or not, some who don't believe this theory know that the scriptures say He Jesus shall be called Wonderful, COUNSELOR, and this Counselor is also the Holy Spirit. Jesus Goes to the Father physically and spiritually and Spiritually returns to be in oneself as since the day of pentecost Where His Spirit is poured out on everyone. So when Jesus says, I am in you, He means it.
Yes, we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit,

who gives us to understand the word of God written,

he does not give authoritative new revelation.
 
You make it sound like God isn't even allowed to add to His own Word, what a shame to put the Spirit in a box contrary to the book you believe to be the whole truth. What do you think the Spirit, the comforter does nowadays, pump gas at a citgo...

You just insulted the Spirit to make a point. I am afraid for you.