MY PEOPLE ARE DESTROYED FOR LACK...PT.4

[RedTent]

We know that doing rituals does not lead to Godly living if they aren’t done for our Lord. Our doing or works has to come from our faith. Paul goes on and on and on some more about this, and rightly so. But what we think and know, our faith, isn’t enough, it has to be followed with doing or it is as empty as the doing without faith. We have many people in our church today who say their heart is right, but they don’t live it. The Jews had in their church those who felt their doing proved something, although they had no faith. So what is worse? Law with no gospel or gospel with no law? Both aren’t right.

The NT scripture talks so strongly against ceremonial law, but surely it can not be that God wants us to use that talk as explaining over and over that we have Christ in our heart, following God with what we do will just naturally come with no effort on our part, that it cancels including God in our daily living. It doesn't just flow from our being without effort on our part, even if we love the Lord. Sounds good, doesn't work. God's ways always work.

God blessed the Sabbath. Not some other day of the week. He gave an order to keep that day. Jesus pointed out that the law of love was superior even to that when he healed on the Sabbath and plucked grain when they were hungry. But the Sabbath is to be kept.

Constantine, the Roman emperor who said he was Christian, settled the controversy about Saturday or Sunday to be used for rest. He wasn’t trying to follow God when he did that, he wanted to satisfy his pagan subjects and he was so anti-Semitic he said that anything the Jews did he wanted no one to have anything to do with. A lot of the Jews, by that time, did not have Christ, but they had our Father God. The pagans used the day of the sun to worship, and Constantine never gave up some of his pagan ways. Do we really want to follow Constantine, or should we follow God.

 

[Avinu]

I don't agree , AV, the Lord leads me, but this reeks of legalism thought.....
YHVH never leads you in a way that is contrary to His word. If you are lead to do something contrary to His word, it is not He who leads you.

WHEN someone worships, belaboring their dsy, is not to be judgingly called by others, scripture is clear on this, as abide pointed out .
Isaiah 58: 13-14 gives a true clarity of worship.

Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Isa 58:14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

But, THAT someone worships, picks a day that works for them is to be done,, 'remember the Sabbath and keep it holy.' , that said,too, our relationship IS, ultimately, to be through the Holy Spirit's leading. God's will for our life is to be followed at all costs.
YHVH's commandment doesn't say "pick a day and make it sabbath" It says keep THE Sabbath Day Holy, and scripture also says the 7th day is the Sabbath Day YHVH made Holy and set aside for Sabbath. The Holy Spirit will ONLY lead you to obey YHVH's word, the Holy Spirit will NEVER lead anyone to do opposite of YHVH's word.

There is obviously dissension amongst believers on WHAT day is the Sabbath as eternally grateful is a good anti of your and laod's Saturday rationale, AV.For the sake of arguement, if you feel sunday is sabbath, do you obey it the way YHVH commanded? Do you work, buy, sell, etc. Or do you do what He said to do on Sabbath, rest and worship in Him, as I shared with the verses above.

Judt speak in Love, and I have not talked a whole lot to you but I see your being more understanding and receptive of others say, regarding your differing thinking. I know too that God sees this humbleness of spirit by you too, God bless you, Christ bro.

You're right, speaking in love is the most important. And the greatest way we will show YHVH that we love Him with all our hearts, mind and strength is by obeying His Commandments.

I too have enjoyed what few conversations we've had, I hope you don't take any of this to be an attack or anything. Blessing to you my friend. May we all seek His truth in every way. YHVH bless you. Shalom

 

[Avinu]

Avinu would have us all obey all the Law and praise GOD without ceasing (impossible), as one still in bondage. Obviously Avinu is a babe in the Word, and can only handle the MILK (don't do this, don't do that; do this and this); and has never understood that it is the Spirit of the Law. Adam was given eternal life by the Commandment for free, and he did not have a book of holiness to guide him; but, he did have a conscience and free will. The point? it has never been about the Law; it has been about doing right by our own conscience (keeping onesself unspotted from the world) and helping the needy. AKA PURE RELIGION (James). The Book had to be written after Adam sinned, because he sinned; and it was written to condemn us and show us that we are just beasts of the earth (Eccl) and sinners. Have you not read that there are now only two LAWS, and they basically say the same thing? (Mathew- Jesus speaking).

I'll bet Avinu believes the serpent was a literal snake, and Eve is really to blame for Adam eating the 'forbidden' fruit.

• Like

Did I strike some nerve with you for you to attack me like this. It's one thing to disagree with me, it's another to come at me like this when you have NO clue who I am or what I stand for. You're ignorant statement here shows your true spiritual immaturity. I forgive you though. YHVH bless you.

 

[iamsoandso]

now i will stand with avinu,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,again,,,,,,,,,,why,,,,,,,,,, go back and see the scripture quoted,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,many,,,, many "personal opinions" and very few ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"of gods scripture quoted",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,(now i say that with concern),,,,,,,,,,,,the foundation of god is not laid out on reeds floating in the nile ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but stone laid in the promised land,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

now avinu's thinking "yes it was ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,moses was put into a basket made of reed and set into the nile,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,my points he new that and you didnt,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[Red33]

Did I strike some nerve with you for you to attack me like this. It's one thing to disagree with me, it's another to come at me like this when you have NO clue who I am or what I stand for. You're ignorant statement here shows your true spiritual immaturity. I forgive you though. YHVH bless you.

I say this at my own risk and peril. You are nothing but one little Hebrew twerp (contemptible) and a schmuck (obnoxious). Some of your favorite pejoratives; ignorant, immature, uneducated, clueless, not worth talking to. You are so intelligent and have such a disciplined tongue, who could resist anything you have to say, after all your Hebrew and not Christian and we all should give great heed to those great swelling words of wisdom coming from such a silver tongue of redemption that represents Yeshua. I don't think Yeshua is as pleased with you as you think because you think too much of yourself and you degrade others in an instant with no forethought. That's what makes you a presumptuous schmuck. My hands are clean.

 

[GodsPrincess]

I don't know exactly where this argument is right know, so I don't know if anyone has already made this point, but I thought I'd through in my two cents. The reason the Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday was because that was the day Jesus rose from the dead.He died on Friday night, and rose on the third day, which was Sunday. The Church felt like Sunday was a much more holy day and changed the Sabbath in order to honor Christ's resurrection.

Red33
John 13:34 " I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another"
Please try to be nice even if you don't agree with someone.

 

[Red33]

I don't know exactly where this argument is right know, so I don't know if anyone has already made this point, but I thought I'd through in my two cents. The reason the Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday was because that was the day Jesus rose from the dead.He died on Friday night, and rose on the third day, which was Sunday. The Church felt like Sunday was a much more holy day and changed the Sabbath in order to honor Christ's resurrection.

Red33
John 13:34 " I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another"
Please try to be nice even if you don't agree with someone.

Your right, but there are some people that have no respect for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and use there self-righteous Hebrew status to exalt themselves and they need to be knocked down a few notches, if you know what I mean. He's not easily offended but he needs to humble himself and know where some of us stand against all that. He'll probably be okay in the end but for now he has alot to learn about the NT church and body of Christ. Pray for him and that God would open his understanding to see Jesus Christ as He is in His church and body.

 

[Avinu]

I don't know exactly where this argument is right know, so I don't know if anyone has already made this point, but I thought I'd through in my two cents. The reason the Church changed the Sabbath to Sunday was because that was the day Jesus rose from the dead.He died on Friday night, and rose on the third day, which was Sunday. The Church felt like Sunday was a much more holy day and changed the Sabbath in order to honor Christ's resurrection.

Red33
John 13:34 " I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another"
Please try to be nice even if you don't agree with someone.

Blessings to you young sister in Messiah. But the church did not change the sabbath to sunday as you've been taught and is the lie that has been taught for generations. It is documented fact that the catholic church through Constantine changed the sabbath from sat. to sun. because he wanted to remove the jewish connection to christianity. It was outlawed by him for anyone to keep the sat. sabbath. And it was put into affect through the catholic church that they have the authority to change God's word at their leisure. But never in scripture was the sabbath ever changed by YHVH.

In the book, "Why we keep sunday" by Bishop Seymour,
"We have made the change from the 7th day to the 1st day, from sat. to sun. solely on the authority of Roman Catholic Church."

"You can read the Bible from Gen. to Rev. and you will not find a single line authorizing the sancification of sunday worship, The scriptures enforce the religious observance of saturday, a day which we NEVER sanctify."
James Cardinal Gibbons- The Faith of Our Fathers (1917 ed) pg. 72-73

"It was the Catholic church which has transferred this rest (the Biblical Sabbath) to the sunday... thus, the observance of sunday by the protestants is an homage they pay, in spite of themselves, to the authority of the Catholic church."
Monsignor Louis Segur "Plain Talk about Protestants of Today" pg. 213

The Catholic Universe Bulletin Aug. 14, 1942:
" The church changed the observance of the Sabbath to sunday by right of the divine infallible authority given her."

"We catholics have precisely the same authority for keeping sunday holy instead of saturday as we have for every other article of our creed, namely the authority of the church, where as you protestants have no authority for it whatever. For ther is no authority for sunday sacredness in the Bible. Both you and we do, in fact, follow tradition in this matter."
Brotherhood of St. Paul, Clifton Tracts, Vol. 4, tract 4, pg. 15



Also Yeshua did not die on friday, for you cannot get 3 days and 3 nights from friday to sunday morning as scripture says He was in the belly of the earth. Matt. 12:40

Blessings and Shalom

 

[loveme1]

Your right, but there are some people that have no respect for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and use there self-righteous Hebrew status to exalt themselves and they need to be knocked down a few notches, if you know what I mean. He's not easily offended but he needs to humble himself and know where some of us stand against all that. He'll probably be okay in the end but for now he has alot to learn about the NT church and body of Christ. Pray for him and that God would open his understanding to see Jesus Christ as He is in His church and body.

You can not knock down what is built on the Most High Yahvah God

You are deluding yourself if you think someone using the Hebrew name of Yahshua the Messiah are the ones lacking respect....

 

[Red33]

You can not knock down what is built on the Most High Yahvah God

You are deluding yourself if you think someone using the Hebrew name of Yahshua the Messiah are the ones lacking respect....

I absolutely believe that you and others, who refuse to use the name JESUS as our Lord and Christ, are not only disrespectful but lack godly integrity. You reject that name in the same spirit His own people rejected Christ. You want no identification with that name and if you deny that, its makes you crafty and dishonest. Your loyalty is to the name of Yeshua and you think that all others that use the name JESUS are deceived and ignorant. You treat that precious name as if it came from those dogs. That name is a stumbling block to you even now.

In your statement, something is revealed about your reverence and what you think of the name of JESUS Christ the Son of God, the Saviour of the world, the Christ, who was born in a manger in Bethlehem of Judea, the King of the Jews (the Govenor) and was worshiped as the one that would take away the sins of the world and turn away ungodliness from Jacob as their Deliverer. You are among the proud and arrogant people with a stout heart and it is revealed in your shameful behavior concerning the name of JESUS, God's only begotten Son.

 

[Avinu]

You can not knock down what is built on the Most High Yahvah God

You are deluding yourself if you think someone using the Hebrew name of Yahshua the Messiah are the ones lacking respect.... [/QUOTE
Amen, some just need to find something to fill that spirit of contention in them, so now this is his topic.

 

[loveme1]

I absolutely believe that you and others, who refuse to use the name JESUS as our Lord and Christ, are not only disrespectful but lack godly integrity. You reject that name in the same spirit His own people rejected Christ. You want no identification with that name and if you deny that, its makes you crafty and dishonest. Your loyalty is to the name of Yeshua and you think that all others that use the name JESUS are deceived and ignorant. You treat that precious name as if it came from those dogs. That name is a stumbling block to you even now.

In your statement, something is revealed about your reverence and what you think of the name of JESUS Christ the Son of God, the Saviour of the world, the Christ, who was born in a manger in Bethlehem of Judea, the King of the Jews (the Govenor) and was worshiped as the one that would take away the sins of the world and turn away ungodliness from Jacob as their Deliverer. You are among the proud and arrogant people with a stout heart and it is revealed in your shameful behavior concerning the name of JESUS, God's only begotten Son.

You are more than entitled to take that view, it matters not.

You act like the name Jesus came before Yahshua....

Let us not debate the matter, for you have no authority and neither do I.

So let us all walk the path we are called to walk to give glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

 

[Red33]

You are more than entitled to take that view, it matters not.

You act like the name Jesus came before Yahshua....

Let us not debate the matter, for you have no authority and neither do I.

So let us all walk the path we are called to walk to give glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

Let me hear you say this from the heart...

'So let us all walk the path we are called to walk to give glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.'

I don't believe that you have it in you to say that name JESUS, but prove me wrong.

 

[loveme1]

Let me hear you say this from the heart...

'So let us all walk the path we are called to walk to give glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.'

I don't believe that you have it in you to say that name JESUS, but prove me wrong.

Accept that we differ, do not take it upon yourself to request such of me.

You have stated much, and I forgive your comments.

You have some misguided idea that we are "Jews" that are trying to lie about the Messiah by using a different name to deceive people.

We prefer the Hebrew name.

We do not deny the Messiah Yahshua in any way.

We give glory to Yahvah God and Yahshua the Messiah.

We teach that those that keep the Commandments of Yahvah God and Faith in Yahshua the Messiah are Saints according to the Bible, with the given guidance of the Holy Spirit.

We deny nothing, we give glory in truth...

Why not accept that some have been called to use the Hebrew name of the Messiah...

Be blessed.

Peace be with you.

 

[Avinu]

loveme1, as unfortunate as it is. You're beating a dead horse. I've even tried to have a civil conversation with red33, he has no interest in this. There are many on CC here who have just quit all together talking to him. He not interested in mature conversation, I think it pains him to have a peaceful discussion, he seems to need strife. And we know what the bible says about those who cause strife among the believers. I'm not telling you what to do by any means. You have a gentle spririt, and someone like him will push it to it's limits. That's why I ignore him now. I don't even waste my time reading his stuff. He's not trying to edify the body, he trying to frustrate the body. May YHVH help him, and open his eyes to the true love of Yeshua. Shalom

 

[Avinu]

THIS TOO. SHALOM

 

[Red33]

Here is the plain truth. Those who refuse to keep the Sabbath day commandment are those who disregard YHVH's word.
There is plain and clear biblical evidence that the sabbath day(saturday) is and always will be the Holy Hallowed Sabbath of YHVH.
He even said to REMEMBER it always.

People who want to live their so called christian walk their way, will always find some way to twist YHVH's word around to fit their agenda, so they can feel justified in how they live.

But what they don't think about during these decisions of selfishness, is they will have to answer for all of it when they stand before YHVH, and then they are going to wish with everything, that they had listened.


So go ahead, keep treating YHVH's word as though it is something to play around with and not take serious. For those of us who choose to actually obey YHVH and walk in His ways and keep His commandments (as it says from Gen. to Rev.) we will bask in the enjoyment of our rewards for obedience, while those who chose to find excuses not to obey His commandments will have loss.

You can not show one place in NT scripture written to the church that involves worship on or in keeping of the Sabbath, not one. Not even in Hebrews or the book of James that was written to the twelve tribes scattered abroad. It's just not in the NT sciptures as a mandate nor as a reminder to keep in any way and you have no answer for that. But you will find NT scripture, especially in Hebrews, about entering into God's rest by coming to Christ, but that is the only rest that we are to be concerned about. We gather and assemble ourselves together more and more or as often as we can with purpose to provoke one another unto love and good works, but there is NO keeping of the Sabbath.

When we remember Christ as not only our Saviour but also as Creator of all things, we have rest because we are trusting in Him and leaning upon Him. Many have such a struggle with understanding that the Sabbath-rest was made for man and NOT man created for the Sabbath. We can keep any day of the week, it does not matter, and God will not only give us rest but we can rest in His love, because Christ is the Lord of the Sabbath-rest that was made for man to receive and enter into.

The believer keeps the commandments of the NT and new covenant by abiding in Christ and letting His word abide in us and that is done through a disposition of the heart that has entered into faith-rest. This faith-rest in the heart is trusting in the promises of God and in the person, work and words of our Lord Jesus Christ. There is no other way of keeping the commandments outside of abiding in Christ, who fulfilled the law and kept the commandments of His Father. It takes the Spirit leading and guiding us through an every-thought process to bring us into obedience to every word of God.

It is not something that we take on in the flesh or through will power but only through the humility of faith that is resting in the nature and author of the promises of God, who is faithful to what He has promised. We don't keep the Sabbath but we do enter into His Sabbath-rest by faith through the promises of God. The Israelites did not do that in the wilderness and had problems because of unbelief that hardened their heart against what God had promised, unlike Abraham, who staggered not at the promise in unbelief but was strong in faith. Do you find any testimony in scripture of Abraham ever keeping the Sabbath or was that just mandated under the law of Moses as a perpetual covenant for the nation of Israel? Are you going to take what God mandated under the law to Israel and apply it to the church and mandate the same for them, who are under grace and not the law?

 

[Digital_Angel_316]

I would like to see a follow-up thread (or additional posts here perhaps) discussing the
book of Revelation as well as the great falling away, with the man of perdition being
revealed. There are other threads that do have various posts on The Mark of the Beast,
The City on Seven Hills, The Mother church and her Harlot Daughters, and similar topics. It
would be nice though as a summary to this effort (four threads) to capstone the
discussion from Scripture, and how it applies to these threads (though certainly scripture
has been used here in these threads as well).