New Covenant and Old Covenant

[Ariel82]

If you don't want to know what your siblings think God reveals to them, why have a conversation?

Perhaps someone is projecting their desire to preach and convert to their beliefs upon others?

Personally I come to CC to fellowship and learn whatever God has to show me. I may not agree with what other people believe or say, but I try to understand what they mean and then study to see if it can be found in God's words. Then pray to see if it is true and beneficial or worldly wisdom.

It's not my job to convince others to my beliefs. Instead I believe God calls us to seek His wisdom even if it goes contract to our own beliefs.

If someone believes they have perfect understanding of all scriptures then they are lying to themselves.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Wrong again, The scriptures refer to God, Jesus Christ and all the words of God to be interpreted. Some read the scriptures of the OT all the time and never could come into the knowledge of the truth. Jesus made that known to them also., because they were carnal minded and could not perceive spiritual things pertaining scripture. You need to stop accusing people of thinking they know it all when they have not professed such a thing.

 

[Ariel82]

The nature of an "if ..then" clause..,

If you don't think you know it all, then the statement wasn't directed at you.

 

[Jackson123]

My real life friends who do so observe the weekly Sabbath for cultural reasons and as memory and memorial. The Rabbi at the Messianic Jewish congregation I spoke agreed we should worship God every day. However they choose to gather on Saturday and communally worship at that time. Many are of Jewish descent and it's the custom they grew up with exceot they accept that Jesus is the Messiah.

There is beauty and comfort to rituals for some people.

It only becomes a problem when people worship the rituals instead of God, when people condemn instead of love.

honestly I don't know if it is the will of God or not. Observe weekly sabbath for culture reason. It may OK, but I am not observe weekly sabbath because I believe the real sabbath is when I come to the Lord Jesus.

 

[Gabriel2020]

There is a scripture that I cannot find at the moment that says the one that regard the sabbath as a holy day unto God will keep it, and the one that do not will not keep it. .That is as close as I can get right now, but it is scripture.

 

[beta]

There is a scripture that I cannot find at the moment that says the one that regard the sabbath as a holy day unto God will keep it, and the one that do not will not keep it. .That is as close as I can get right now, but it is scripture.

Are you thinking of Rom 14v6 ? it does not particularly mention 'Sabbath' but everybody always refers to it.

 

[graceNpeace]

Are you thinking of Rom 14v6 ? it does not particularly mention 'Sabbath' but everybody always refers to it.

It refers to any day, including the Sabbath, thought special by anyone!
And the conclusion is that none of them are binding on any believer....

 

[beta]

It refers to any day, including the Sabbath, thought special by anyone!
And the conclusion is that none of them are binding on any believer....

Gabriel is quoting scripture...you are not. So...'to the Lord they don't keep it'....that would be about right !

 

[graceNpeace]

Gabriel is quoting scripture...you are not. So...'to the Lord they don't keep it'....that would be about right !

Read it for yourself:

"5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c]
11 For it is written:“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.
16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 For he who serves Christ in these things[e] is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.
20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.
21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.[f] 22 Do you have faith?[g] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.[h]"
Rom 14:5-23

 

[Studyman]

It's more that your resonse doesn't truly answer the question.

You disagree that the tablet of stone refers to the Laws given on Mount Sinai, the question is what do you believe they refer to instead.

If you would rather ignore the question that is your choice. Maybe someone else will answer,

It's an open forum.

I am not pitting scriptures against one another. Just trying to figure out how you make them all fit together in your biblical framework of you don't believe that Jesus did as He said he would and replace the Old covenant with the New covenant laws.

Jesus never said He would replace God’s Laws. That is your Words to advance your religion, not the Words of the Christ. You are free to post His Promise to Change God’s Laws if you can find them. In My Bible He said “Think not that I come to destroy the Law and Prophets”. Not sure how you are able to convert that into “He said He would replace the old Covenant with New Covenant Laws”. He said exactly what the New Covenant is and what changed in the Law as I posted. You have offered some Words, a couple of scripture not related but so far the preaching that Jesus replaced God’s Laws for the people is just another religious doctrine from the mind of man.

 

[Ariel82]

It was old covenant law to sacrifice animals....Jesus replaced that law by sacrificing Himself. Thus making the sacrifice of animals not needed.

Jesus changed the Law and eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth to forgive and love your enemies.

Jesus said that the old covenant was obsolete and ready to pass away.

He says if it was perfect there would be no need for a New covenant.

Jesus fulfilled the contract of the Old covenant and ratified the New covenant with His shed blood on the cross.

What laws from Mount Sinai do you think still apply to New covenant believers?

Do not murder? Jesus tells us it more then just the letter of the law. He changes this one by adding the clause that if in your heart you are angry at your brother without cause, that is a sin. If you call them Raca or Fool then then consequences are worst.

Jesus does that with many laws from the Old covenant...He either holds them up and makes the requirement heart purity and not just outward appearances or He rejects and replaces them (like the eye for an eye commandment).

 

[Jackson123]

Read it for yourself:

"5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord;[a] and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s.
9 For to this end Christ died and rose[b] and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living.
10 But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.[c]
11 For it is written:“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.”[d]

12 So then each of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
15 Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died.
16 Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil;
17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.
18 For he who serves Christ in these things[e] is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19 Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another.
20 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense.
21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak.[f] 22 Do you have faith?[g] Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he whoack to doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.[h]"
Rom 14:5-23

I just want to say my opinion, it was transitioned time from Ot to NT time and most early Christian are Jews that observe weekly sabbath, so it is understandable that some of them maintain the tradition. But for non Jews like SDA back to some OT is hard to understand.

 

[Ariel82]

I just want to say my opinion, it was transitioned time from Ot to NT time and most early Christian are Jews that observe weekly sabbath, so it is understandable that some of them maintain the tradition. But for non Jews like SDA back to some OT is hard to understand.

I agree.

That is why Jesus says it's better to have Mercy than sacrifice.

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

Yet protestants wave their salvation in front of everyone as if it is something they did and could brag about. They have no understanding that rebellion is deadly for it makes the soul unacceptable.

I agree. After all, we aren't sons of God; instead, we are being done sons of God:

• "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" (John 1.12).

We aren't saved; instead, our salvation needs to be carry out with fear and trembling:

• Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure." (Phil 2.12,13).

 

[Ariel82]

2 Timothy 1:7 ►
King James Version
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

****

If you have and follow the Holy spirit, one doesn't need to have fear and can say they ARE SAVED.

Not because it's anything they did but by faith, grace and love of God.

 

[joaniemarie]

The new covenant is for new covenant believers/saints/ sons... Check out just a few of the differences;

OC failed because the condition was our imperfect obedience...NC is solidly founded on Jesus PERFECT obedience UNTO DEATH

OC said they were blessed if they did good.....NC says we are blessed because JESUS IS GOOD

OC says when you do bad you will be punished.......NC says that because of Jesus we are forever unpunishable!!

Many Christians will see the word "unpunishable" and flags will go waaay up. But the major distinction must be made...as "sons" our relationship has changed from being outside the family to being INSIDE the family.

From being punished to being disciplined for our own good. Discipline is about training.... punishment is about paying a penalty.

God is now for us so who can be against us? Amen! God is on our side because Jesus has made us on God's side forever!


WELCOME TO THE NEW COVENANT.

"

 

[Studyman]

It was old covenant law to sacrifice animals....Jesus replaced that law by sacrificing Himself. Thus making the sacrifice of animals not needed.

Jesus changed the Law and eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth to forgive and love your enemies.

Jesus said that the old covenant was obsolete and ready to pass away.

He says if it was perfect there would be no need for a New covenant.

Jesus fulfilled the contract of the Old covenant and ratified the New covenant with His shed blood on the cross.

What laws from Mount Sinai do you think still apply to New covenant believers?

Do not murder? Jesus tells us it more then just the letter of the law. He changes this one by adding the clause that if in your heart you are angry at your brother without cause, that is a sin. If you call them Raca or Fool then then consequences are worst.

Jesus does that with many laws from the Old covenant...He either holds them up and makes the requirement heart purity and not just outward appearances or He rejects and replaces them (like the eye for an eye commandment).

He taught all this as the Word which became Flesh in the Law and Prophets. I posted the proof of this Biblical fact already several times.

You are Entitled to your opinion. Thanks for the discussion.

 

[Studyman]

I’m going to stick with the New Covenant created by the Word which became Flesh as described by Him.

 

[Ariel82]

You are Entitled to your opinion.

That kind of marks the end of any discussion, thanks.

 

[Ariel82]

The new covenant is for new covenant believers/saints/ sons... Check out just a few of the differences;

OC failed because the condition was our imperfect obedience...NC is solidly founded on Jesus PERFECT obedience UNTO DEATH

OC said they were blessed if they did good.....NC says we are blessed because JESUS IS GOOD

OC says when you do bad you will be punished.......NC says that because of Jesus we are forever unpunishable!!

Many Christians will see the word "unpunishable" and flags will go waaay up. But the major distinction must be made...as "sons" our relationship has changed from being outside the family to being INSIDE the family.

From being punished to being disciplined for our own good. Discipline is about training.... punishment is about paying a penalty.

God is now for us so who can be against us? Amen! God is on our side because Jesus has made us on God's side forever!


WELCOME TO THE NEW COVENANT.

"

I have to admit that I did throw a red flag.

I am glad you clarified the difference between punishment and discipline.