Not By Works

[VCO]

Those that are saved have already done the will of the Father (doesn't mean that there are not other things they will do to obey His will, but this is the main one) . . .

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:39-40).

Like Saul did, I'm afraid that you are kicking against the pricks.

Now just start will ONE WILL OF GOD, and then went you get that DONE, then you can move on to other.


Mark 12:28-30 (HCSB)
28 One of the scribes approached. When he heard them debating and saw that Jesus answered them well, he asked Him, “Which command is the most important of all?”
29 “This is the most important,” Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is One.
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.


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Still waiting!

Sounds to me like YOU CANNOT DO IT.

Then you are GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A MESSIAH, DO IT FOR YOU.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Now just start will ONE WILL OF GOD, and then went you get that DONE, then you can move on to other.


Mark 12:28-30 (HCSB)
28 One of the scribes approached. When he heard them debating and saw that Jesus answered them well, he asked Him, “Which command is the most important of all?”
29 “This is the most important,” Jesus answered: Listen, Israel! The Lord our God, the Lord is One.
30 Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.


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Still waiting!

Sounds to me like YOU CANNOT DO IT.

Then you are GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A MESSIAH, DO IT FOR YOU.

The audience of those words was a seeker under the Jewish Law questioning what he NEEDED to do. The blood-bought believer under grace WANTS to do those things. And he can do those things, once he has done the first thing - 'believe on Him whom He has sent.'

If you prefer to be a Jew, fine! Be a Jew - after all, you are betting your life on it.

Again, the difference is between NEEDING to do something, and WANTING to do something.

 

[TruthTalk]

What is a cainologist? Try regular English terms. It's not on Google.

Hi Endoscopy, simple answer, many bible students believe that Cain's offering is the works of his hands and not the blood sacrifice that God requires for the forgiveness of sin's. Able's offering was by grace through faith but Cain's offering was by works not grace. Dcon said he will be gone for a couple of days, if my answer is insufficient he will set things straight.

Genesis4:4-5
4b) The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5) but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Hebrews11:4
4) By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.

Hebrews9:22
22) According to the Law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Hi Endoscopy, simple answer, many bible students believe that Cain's offering is the works of his hands and not the blood sacrifice that God requires for the forgiveness of sin's. Able's offering was by grace through faith but Cain's offering was by works not grace. Dcon said he will be gone for a couple of days, if my answer is insufficient he will set things straight.

Genesis4:3-5
The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5) but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Hebrews11:4
4) By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.

Hebrews9:22
According to the Law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

Adam and Eve began a practice which later could have developed into your label of Cainology.

If we recall, when they ate of the fruit and realized that they were naked, what did they do? They fashioned garments to cover their sin with fig leaves. When God found them He was not satisfied with those man-made remnants so He slew an animal and covered them . . .

"Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them" (Genesis 3:21).

Our first parents attempt was faulty because it was the work of their own hand . . . note the word, 'work!' It was what we would call today a 'salvation by works' - but what it really was a 'slavation by works.' It does not please God. So He provides them a covering for their sin and Adam and Eve both 'accepted' or 'received' the covering.

Abel brought an offering of blood which God accepted. Cain brought the works of his own hand - God rejected it, but . . .

"But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him" (Genesis 4:5-7).

again, 'sin lieth at the door.'

I believe that right outside his tent, lying by the door, was a little lamb which Cain could have taken and sacrificed - but he refused. He rejected God's method of acceptance and chose his own 'way.'

Just as so many are doing today.

"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me" (John 14:6).

They prefer to chose the 'way of Cain.'

 

[VCO]

He is talking to those that have the truth in unrighteousness.

What do you think of a person who has the truth. Do you think that they knew God at least at one time? Do you think they were saved at one time? Do you think they had the truth and all that goes with knowing the truth and gave it up? Yes. OSAS is not a sound doctrine.

John 10:26-28 (HCSB)
26 But you don’t believe because you are not My sheep.
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them, and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever!
No one will snatch them out of My hand.

1 Peter 1:4-5 (HCSB)
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.
5 ’You are being protected by God's power through faith for a salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.


You have Bought a deliberate LIE about OSAS. You continue to perpetuate that LIE about OSAS, because you do not want to believe your teachers were DECEIVED, and taught you a LIE.

That is OSAS in the Bible, and it is 100% biblical.

 

[VCO]

Those that are saved have already done the will of the Father (doesn't mean that there are not other things they will do to obey His will, but this is the main one) . . .

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:39-40).

Like Saul did, I'm afraid that you are kicking against the pricks.

Surely that is an inadvertent error, and I make a lot of them too, but should that not be will do the will of the Father ?

First The WILL of the FATHER is that WE LOVE HIM FOREVER, WITH ALL OF OUR HEART, ALL OF YOU SOUL, and WITH ALL OF YOUR MIND. Therefore, We are not ever finished with DOING THE WILL of the FATHER. Second of all, WE ARE SAVED BEFORE WE CAN DO ONE WORK.

Romans 5:8-10 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

 

[TruthTalk]

Adam and Eve began a practice which later could have developed into your label of Cainology.

Hi BaptistBibleBeliever, you are 100% correct and God provided the first blood sacrifice for Adam and Eve. Cain's offering is nothing more than "fig leaf salvation" which is why our God set things on the right path providing a blood sacrifice which is God's plan of salvation for you and I and the whole world.

"Cainology" is a dcontroversalism label not mine.

God bless!

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Surely that is an inadvertent error, and I make a lot of them too, but should that not be will do the will of the Father ?

First The WILL of the FATHER is that WE LOVE HIM FOREVER, WITH ALL OF OUR HEART, ALL OF YOU SOUL, and WITH ALL OF YOUR MIND. Therefore, We are not ever finished with DOING THE WILL of the FATHER. Second of all, WE ARE SAVED BEFORE WE CAN DO ONE WORK.

Romans 5:8-10 (HCSB)
8 But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
9 Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
10 For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!

No error . . . salvation is past tense with eternal duration . . . so they 'have done' - therefore, they continue to do the will of the Father because they love Him and wish to please Him.

Why? Is it something innately good presiding within them? Scripture tells us 1) that we love God because He first love us, and we obey God because . . .

"Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13).

When will you lay down the weapons of your warfare and just believe God and His Word? How long will you continue to kick against the pricks?

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Hi BaptistBibleBeliever, you are 100% correct and God provided the first blood sacrifice for Adam and Eve. Cain's offering is nothing more than "fig leaf salvation" which is why our God set things on the right path providing a blood sacrifice which is God's plan of salvation for you and I and the whole world.

"Cainology" is a dcontroversalism label not mine.

God bless!

That DCon really gets around, don't he!

 

[VCO]

Aren't you the KISS man or is it somone else?

I saw nothing in your scripture references that disputed what the creeds say. I brought up the creeds because of the continual attack on them by some ignoring in many gospel preaching churches they are recited by the congregation in the preliminary part of the service. That is where I learned the Apostles Creed. In a RCA Church. The gospel message was brought into the sermon every time. So again where are the scriptures refuting any Creed as not conforming to the Bible. Other gospel preaching denominations use the other creeds. Refute them or shut up about them. Creeds are used to define what a Christian must believe and churches having the congregation recite them use it to reinforce the gospel message.[/QUOTE]
Looks like you are responding to a post I never made.

I asked if you were the KISS man.
As for the rest of it I have no idea what's happened[/QUOTE]

Yes, I am a KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, believer. It has a very deep meaning to Me. A Pastor that I consider a Spiritual Grandfather, (One who has the Education, AND YEARS OF LIVING THE WORD) saw me witnessing on the Street one afternoon. The next Sunday, he pulled me into his Office before Church Started, and said, "I have one thing to say to you, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, because you were going way over the head of that guy you were witnessing to." I Never forgot that lesson, and I smile everytime I remember it.

I know the Creeds may have been a way for the Church fathers, to KEEP IT SIMPLE; however, when it is used as a REGULAR PART OF the Service hour, EVERY BODY has memorized it, and can repeat it without error WHILE DAY DREAMING. You see, I used to be a Lutheran, and that is exactly what I DID. Now you have crossed over into the area of MEANINGLESS REPETITION, in my opinion.

Matthew 6:7 (NASB)
7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.

 

[VCO]

Hi BaptistBibleBeliever, you are 100% correct and God provided the first blood sacrifice for Adam and Eve. Cain's offering is nothing more than "fig leaf salvation" which is why our God set things on the right path providing a blood sacrifice which is God's plan of salvation for you and I and the whole world.

"Cainology" is a dcontroversalism label not mine.

God bless!

He wrote our NAMES in he book of life, BEFORE HE FORMED THE WORLD. Therefore, the BLOOD OF JESUS was for ALL TIME, including for ADAM on through the END of Mortal Man.

 

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

"But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us. For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh: How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance" (Hebrews 9:11-15).

People that say a Christian can lose their salvation are calling God a liar. He don't like being called a liar. He's gonna get even!

 

[BillG]

Naaa...just a Rabbit chase is all....fall coming and all...Rabbit season starts in October haha

You shall henceforth be called Elmer Fudd

 

[BillG]

I saw nothing in your scripture references that disputed what the creeds say. I brought up the creeds because of the continual attack on them by some ignoring in many gospel preaching churches they are recited by the congregation in the preliminary part of the service. That is where I learned the Apostles Creed. In a RCA Church. The gospel message was brought into the sermon every time. So again where are the scriptures refuting any Creed as not conforming to the Bible. Other gospel preaching denominations use the other creeds. Refute them or shut up about them. Creeds are used to define what a Christian must believe and churches having the congregation recite them use it to reinforce the gospel message.

Looks like you are responding to a post I never made.

I asked if you were the KISS man.
As for the rest of it I have no idea what's happened[/QUOTE]

Yes, I am a KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, believer. It has a very deep meaning to Me. A Pastor that I consider a Spiritual Grandfather, (One who has the Education, AND YEARS OF LIVING THE WORD) saw me witnessing on the Street one afternoon. The next Sunday, he pulled me into his Office before Church Started, and said, "I have one thing to say to you, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, because you were going way over the head of that guy you were witnessing to." I Never forgot that lesson, and I smile everytime I remember it.

I know the Creeds may have been a way for the Church fathers, to KEEP IT SIMPLE; however, when it is used as a REGULAR PART OF the Service hour, EVERY BODY has memorized it, and can repeat it without error WHILE DAY DREAMING. You see, I used to be a Lutheran, and that is exactly what I DID. Now you have crossed over into the area of MEANINGLESS REPETITION, in my opinion.

Matthew 6:7 (NASB)
7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
[/QUOTE]
I asked the question about KISS.
The reason being is that Endo has often said that to people.
Keep it KISS.

The reason I asked it was in response to a post that in think he made to you that was not KISS.

Just a few verses and short commentary to make the point as he says.

So I responded to his post 71,896 which was your post 71,867.
Then somehow a post you had made was added to my question.

Not sure how.

 

[TruthTalk]

He wrote our NAMES in he book of life, BEFORE HE FORMED THE WORLD. Therefore, the BLOOD OF JESUS was for ALL TIME, including for ADAM on through the END of Mortal Man.

Amen!

Jeremiah1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Romans8:29
For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters.

God bless!

 

[Endoscopy]

You know Endoscopy, all you need to do is ASSOCIATE those Works that doesn't save, with GOD'S LOVE IN US, WILL produce Good Works and Obedience because you LOVE HIM; and then I could agree with you totally. Yes, HE SAVED US TOTALLY as a FREE GIFT OF GRACE, and AFTER we are SAVED, GOD'S LOVE in us, Rom 5:5, will produce a Harvest of Good Works and Obedience. AMEN.

I was quoting from James 2 where he states faith without works is dead. This goes along with Jesus stating by their fruits you shall know them. This means we need to look at the works of a person to see what they are. Good works or bad works. This is how you discern a secular person claiming to be a Christian. That is what Jesus was referring to. We are obliged to do this. Otherwise wolves in sheep's clothing will deceive you.

 

[Endoscopy]

Looks like you are responding to a post I never made.

I asked if you were the KISS man.
As for the rest of it I have no idea what's happened

Yes, I am a KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, believer. It has a very deep meaning to Me. A Pastor that I consider a Spiritual Grandfather, (One who has the Education, AND YEARS OF LIVING THE WORD) saw me witnessing on the Street one afternoon. The next Sunday, he pulled me into his Office before Church Started, and said, "I have one thing to say to you, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, because you were going way over the head of that guy you were witnessing to." I Never forgot that lesson, and I smile everytime I remember it.

I know the Creeds may have been a way for the Church fathers, to KEEP IT SIMPLE; however, when it is used as a REGULAR PART OF the Service hour, EVERY BODY has memorized it, and can repeat it without error WHILE DAY DREAMING. You see, I used to be a Lutheran, and that is exactly what I DID. Now you have crossed over into the area of MEANINGLESS REPETITION, in my opinion.

Matthew 6:7 (NASB)
7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.
[/QUOTE]
I asked the question about KISS.
The reason being is that Endo has often said that to people.
Keep it KISS.

The reason I asked it was in response to a post that in think he made to you that was not KISS.

Just a few verses and short commentary to make the point as he says.

So I responded to his post 71,896 which was your post 71,867.
Then somehow a post you had made was added to my question.
0
Not sure how.[/QUOTE]
You are ignoring the reason some churches use the creeds that way. First it causes the people in the congregation to memorize it. That let's them use it when witnessing. It also has them reaffirming the Christian belief as a form of worship. Keep in mind that people are all different. What to you is meaningless repitition is to others a heartfelt statement of belief. The early elders created the creeds as an easily memorized statement of what a Christian must believe. Then every other of the many different views outside of the creeds is to agree to disagree. You see that today in all of the different gospel preaching denominations. Many different views outside of the creeds exist but rejecting anything in the creeds or accepting opposite points of view goes towards heresy and full heresy. That is the importance of the creeds.

 

[Endoscopy]

Stupid 5 minute rule again
Keep in mind that back then Bibles were copied by hand. A scribe had to carefully copy it literally letter by letter. They put a finger on the original document letter by letter and copied that letter. When they left the table they left a pointer to the last letter they copied. This made Bibles expensive and rare. Therefore creeds and memorized verses was how the gospel message was transmitted person to person and public speaking like Paul and the disciples did. The gospels and Acts in the the epistles were written mostly as letters to congregations and the Gospels and Acts was written by 3 eye witnesses and a physician that copied down what first hand witnesses told him along with the several letters written by Paul and a couple of other letters written by others. They were passed around and scribes copied them several times so more would be available. Our New Testament comes from the Greek manuscript found in Babylon of the the complete Greek New Testament dated 400.

 

[BillG]

Yes, I am a KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, believer. It has a very deep meaning to Me. A Pastor that I consider a Spiritual Grandfather, (One who has the Education, AND YEARS OF LIVING THE WORD) saw me witnessing on the Street one afternoon. The next Sunday, he pulled me into his Office before Church Started, and said, "I have one thing to say to you, KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID, because you were going way over the head of that guy you were witnessing to." I Never forgot that lesson, and I smile everytime I remember it.

I know the Creeds may have been a way for the Church fathers, to KEEP IT SIMPLE; however, when it is used as a REGULAR PART OF the Service hour, EVERY BODY has memorized it, and can repeat it without error WHILE DAY DREAMING. You see, I used to be a Lutheran, and that is exactly what I DID. Now you have crossed over into the area of MEANINGLESS REPETITION, in my opinion.

Matthew 6:7 (NASB)
7 "And when you are praying, do not use meaningless repetition as the Gentiles do, for they suppose that they will be heard for their many words.

I asked the question about KISS.
The reason being is that Endo has often said that to people.
Keep it KISS.

The reason I asked it was in response to a post that in think he made to you that was not KISS.

Just a few verses and short commentary to make the point as he says.

So I responded to his post 71,896 which was your post 71,867.
Then somehow a post you had made was added to my question.
0
Not sure how.[/QUOTE]
You are ignoring the reason some churches use the creeds that way. First it causes the people in the congregation to memorize it. That let's them use it when witnessing. It also has them reaffirming the Christian belief as a form of worship. Keep in mind that people are all different. What to you is meaningless repitition is to others a heartfelt statement of belief. The early elders created the creeds as an easily memorized statement of what a Christian must believe. Then every other of the many different views outside of the creeds is to agree to disagree. You see that today in all of the different gospel preaching denominations. Many different views outside of the creeds exist but rejecting anything in the creeds or accepting opposite points of view goes towards heresy and full heresy. That is the importance of the creeds.[/QUOTE]
I'm the same as you.
Keep it simple.

The only issue I have with KISS is the stupid part.
It can come across as calling the person you are responding to as calling them stupid.

This something we have installed to our kids "Never call some stupid"

That is as a result of my upbringing being told I was stupid, thick along with very many names that would make a sailor blush.

So if you said to my posts KISS what am I going to focus on?

What about others who you do not know, how would they feel?

Thank you for your opinion, even though I have no idea what you are saying.

As for the last quote above as I said "I NEVER POSTED THAT OR SAID IT"
If you look over my posts to you in the past I HAVE NEVER ADDRESSED THE APOSTLES CREED TO YOU.

I have no idea what happened last night and how it got mixed up.

But please trust me, whatever was added and how it happened was not from me.

God bless and KIS

 

[benhur]

Somehow Christians stop being human? Because a man or a woman makes a profession of faith they are no longer subject to discouragement, or failure? A sad case is the young man that gets saved and calls himself into the ministry (note, I said 'called himself), or maybe his momma or his dad 'called' him into the ministry - but God didn't. He goes off to Bible college, graduates and does the work of a minister for a certain length of time, but he just doesn't have the aptitude for the ministry. He gets crushed by his inability and becomes discouraged and walks away from the ministry.

Now he is 60 and he never quite got over the pain of his ministerial shortcoming - maybe he doesn't even return to church.

Would you consign him to hell? Would God consign him to hell?

I think not.

No, but I would consign to hell a pastor or any Christian that was once a shining example of pure Christian living, was baptized of the spirit, and saved by faith, only to turn on the Savior, and declare that Jesus is not the Christ and try to convince his/her friends to give up Christianity in favor of an alternative life style. They never repent and they die in their state of rebellion. These are not going to receive a seat next to Jesus for eternity. They have lost their EL by turning away from Jesus and trying to destroy him.