Obedience & righteousness - extreme grace version

[PeacefulWarrior]

Yes. The law encompasses so much it is difficult to take in. Even with years of study an individual only gets a partial view of what God covered. This is why simply to dismiss this as a mere way of identifying failure is to cheapen Gods literal words.

In a sense the law is Gods dictated law, word for word, not some persons invention. So to speak against this or miss-represent it is questioning the very wisdom of God.

What is the significance of the law now that Jesus has entered the picture?

(I am still finding it difficult to understand you--check out below.)

"The law encompasses so much it is difficult to take in. Even with years of study an individual only gets a partial view of what God covered. This is why simply to dismiss this as a mere way of identifying failure is to cheapen Gods literal words."

What does the bolded sentence mean? ("this" is ambiguous to me)

 

[PeterJens]

What is the significance of the law now that Jesus has entered the picture?
(I am still finding it difficult to understand you--check out below.)
"The law encompasses so much it is difficult to take in. Even with years of study an individual only gets a partial view of what God covered. This is why simply to dismiss this as a mere way of identifying failure is to cheapen Gods literal words."
What does the bolded sentence mean? ("this" is ambiguous to me)

With the law there is an establishment of cities of refuge, which people could run to if they accidently killed someone which quite rightly people would want revenge or justice for. Now this is an aspect of governance which is about establishing guilt or innocence of a crime. It has implications seen in English Common Law practice and other legal systems around the world.

Now Paul talks about the law in the personal as a means of justifying yourself before God. In this the law is seen as a group of behaviours relating to an individual believer.

Many christians equally look at the law only from this perspective, which is like saying a painting is just oil on canvas and is worth a certain amount. A painting conveys an image the painter wanted people to see, with a message within it that has meaning and purpose.

So the law is many things, even in our spiritual lives, which has value and over time reveals things of value to us, if we spend the time investigating and thinking about it.

 

[PeterJens]

I am still finding it difficult to understand you--check out below.

Sorry for the confusion. Too many different thoughts put in too few words. I need to practice more focused summaries.

 

[PeterJens]

This is why simply to dismiss this as a mere way of identifying failure is to cheapen Gods literal words."

One insight from the sacrificial cycles of atonement. Both morning and afternoon a sacrifice for the sins of Israel was made every day, irrespective of any knowledge of sin or not. So as long as the temple functioned there was meant to be sacrifices going on for sin. This implies a continual need for atonement and also our sins are washed as long as we hold faith with God.

None of the sacrifices were for future sin, or what might happen, but present or past sins. And the sacrifice was only present while the temple functioned.

This emphasises spiritual realities in our walk with Jesus. Faith is needed to make the sacrifice have value at the present time, no sacrifice was ever made for sins commited at any point in the future. You could not buy future forgiveness.

This is probably why certain people do not like the law because it does not support their theology or concepts.

 

[skylove7]

Awesome posts here....
Though I can't read them all
I saw a mention about the ignore button...
It just came to my mind...
Yes the bible says love all people....
Though it's hard...even the wicked man, but just because we love a person that wronged us, doesn't mean we have to roll the red carpet out for them lol
You know what I'm sayin'?
I can love the unsaved from afar....sometimes real far lol

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Um, the will of God is that you be saved.

If you believe in the One He sent, you are saved, and have already done the will of God.

The work of God is loving others, and is the Fruit of the Spirit.

-JGIG

This is the Free Grace concept that a person only has to believe once and they are forever saved. Basically salvation by grace apart from faith. It's gnosticism, pure and simple - once the divine spark within awakes through knowledge (gnosis, special "lens"), it can never die.

 

[FreeNChrist]

This is the Free Grace concept that a person only has to believe once and they are forever saved. Basically salvation by grace apart from faith. It's gnosticism, pure and simple - once the divine spark within awakes through knowledge (gnosis, special "lens"), it can never die.

How many times do you think a person needs to believe?

And please point us to these unnamed people who you say believe we are saved apart from faith. Thanks.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What is the significance of the law now that Jesus has entered the picture?

The same as it's always been: the righteous standard of conduct. Those who walk in the spirit accomplish all of the righteousness required by it.

 

[ladylynn]

What are you, a type of Gestapo, trying to identify 'these people'??


-JGIG

Hi JGIG!!!! so good to see you sissy!! May God richly bless your dear son and your dear family. And YOU sis.

 

[JesusIsAll]

These threads are like that movie "Groundhog Day." You know, you all could save a lot of typing by just posting this to each other, "Ditto."

 

[FreeNChrist]

These threads are like that movie "Groundhog Day." You know, you all could save a lot of typing by just posting this to each other, "Ditto."

LOL. But we learn by repetition. You can never hear the truth or see the danger of the lies that the truth exposes too often.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Hi JGIG!!!! so good to see you sissy!! May God richly bless your dear son and your dear family. And YOU sis.

Ditto....!

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

One insight from the sacrificial cycles of atonement. Both morning and afternoon a sacrifice for the sins of Israel was made every day, irrespective of any knowledge of sin or not. So as long as the temple functioned there was meant to be sacrifices going on for sin. This implies a continual need for atonement and also our sins are washed as long as we hold faith with God.

None of the sacrifices were for future sin, or what might happen, but present or past sins. And the sacrifice was only present while the temple functioned.

This emphasises spiritual realities in our walk with Jesus. Faith is needed to make the sacrifice have value at the present time, no sacrifice was ever made for sins commited at any point in the future. You could not buy future forgiveness.

"For it was indeed fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, innocent, unstained, separated from sinners, and exalted above the heavens. He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself." - Hebrews 7:26-27 (ESV)
​

This is probably why certain people do not like the law because it does not support their theology or concepts.

Here's that "this" again -- what does "this" mean in this context?

This seems to be the most logical conclusion:

"This implies a continual need for atonement and also our sins are washed as long as we hold faith with God."

So, in other words, you're saying that the OT Law should lead us to believe that all people today still require this 'continual atonement'.

Doesn't this line of thinking completely ignore the gospel of Christ... the New Testament... the New Covanent?

"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world." (1 John 2:2)

 

[PeterJens]

This was suggested as a simple statement of extreme grace issues

What is hyper-grace?

It seems a recurring theme to exclude the old testament. Now ofcourse not all the people who jump on board this show believe all these aspects, but the theme is there.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

This is the Free Grace concept that a person only has to believe once and they are forever saved. Basically salvation by grace apart from faith. It's gnosticism, pure and simple - once the divine spark within awakes through knowledge (gnosis, special "lens"), it can never die.

...so in other words if the individual had included, "...and have faith..." -- then it would be a perfectly fine statement?

Why not point this fact out very simply and clearly and benificially, rather than making it look like you're calling the guy a proponent of extreme Free Grace and Gnosticism?! <-- FOR CRYING OUT QUIETLY!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How many times do you think a person needs to believe?

And please point us to these unnamed people who you say believe we are saved apart from faith. Thanks.

I do not know which is more deceptive.

Saying people teach belief is enough, faith is not needed,

or teaching faith and works can be present, but a person still may not get to heaven.

what good is faith and works if I have alot and still miss out.

 

[JesusIsAll]

LOL. But we learn by repetition. You can never hear the truth or see the danger of the lies that the truth exposes too often.

I'll just take your word for that.

Sometimes it's just like Leslie Neilsen, who keeps showing up at the cockpit door, "I just want to tell you both good luck. We're all counting on you." The only difference is he was, at least, amusing.

 

[posthuman]

That means your spirit has been perfected, and your whole being will be perfected if you follow on to know the lord.

oh? i began by the Spirit and will be made perfect by the flesh?
i wonder why the scripture doesn't say He has made us half-perfect or made half of us perfect? odd.

nevertheless, i am grateful and full of praise -- because He is faithful to complete the thing that He started, even when i am unfaithful

Being confident of this very thing,
that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it
until the day of Jesus Christ
(Philippians 1:6)
​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Alright--and how does one "give him control"?

- It seems there is some action required on our part.

This idea of self-negation and abandoning one's will derives from the Calvinistic.Augustinian.gnostic concept of total inability. Man cannot do, so GOD must do through him; therefore, man must turn over the steering wheel to GOD. Check out how a reformed website describes it:

Those [things GOD commands us to do] are things we do because of God’s hand on us and because of His enabling power. This is because we can’t carry these things out freely – we’re too corrupt. ​

Luther believed the same and said that man's will did good or bad deeds only as "it was ridden either by God or the devil".

The early church fathers before Augustine, whom both Luther and Calvin derived their theology from (i.e., Augustine), witnessed that man had free will and ability through the holy spirit to do the will of GOD.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

oh? i began by the Spirit and will be made perfect by the flesh?
i wonder why the scripture doesn't say He has made us half-perfect or made half of us perfect? odd.

nevertheless, i am grateful and full of praise -- because He is faithful to complete the thing that He started, even when i am unfaithful

Being confident of this very thing,
that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it
until the day of Jesus Christ
(Philippians 1:6)
​

Did not paul Call people foolish who thought they started in the spirit, but were perfected by the flesh.?

So sad people today still think that is how it is done, after 2000 years. same old legalism is present..