Once saved always saved (OSAS) debunked

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
FreeGrace2 said:
Read my post again. That has never been the issue and you know it. You ADD "IF they never lose faith" yet you can't even defend your opinion from Scripture.
Your accusations are false and misrepresentative of what I said. I represent myself fairly and truly.
Again, you are proving that you don't read very well. I NEVER accused you of not believing what you believe. I reject the phrase "if they never lose faith" because Jesus refutes that nonsense.

Once faith, never perish. That is Jesus' message.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Peter knew Judas so his version trumps your version. It can’t be said Judas was ever said to have been labeled an unbeliever in the Bible. In fact, he repented later.
You don't know what you are talking about.

Matthew 27
3When Judas, who had betrayed him, saw that Jesus was condemned, he was seized with remorse and returned the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and the elders. 4“I have sinned,” he said, “for I have betrayed innocent blood.”

Though Judas did hang himself, Jesus said all sins would be forgiven men except one.
He knew what he did was wrong, but did it for the money. And the Bible calls him the "son of perdition". So you aren't fooling anyone.
 
Jan 31, 2021
8,658
1,064
113
Jesus said Judas would have eternal life.
Jesus NEVER said that. Or prove it with the verse that quotes Him.

In FACT, Jesus noted that he was UNSAVED.

John 13-
10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”
11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

The context was Jesus washing their feet. Peter got all weird and wanted a whole bath, but Jesus was demonstrating fellowship and said in v.10 that Peter was "clean" meaning SAVED, but "not every one of you". Then, v.11 EXPLAINS exactly who He was referring to; Judas.

So, Jesus DID indicate that Judas had not believed (John 3:18, 2 Thess 2:12).

Keep studying.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,015
1,540
113
Read the context and see about Judas in the gospel. He left everything and followed Jesus around for about 3 years. Jesus guaranteed those people who did they would have eternal life. Just accept it, Judas was guaranteed salvation. :)
he did not follow for the right reason.

You have people being saved with no faith my friend. Just because someone follows christians does not mean they are saved..
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,450
7,256
113
Read the context and see about Judas in the gospel. He left everything and followed Jesus around for about 3 years. Jesus guaranteed those people who did they would have eternal life. Just accept it, Judas was guaranteed salvation. :)
Judas was in it for the power and the money (he was a thief). And he was (tragically) guaranteed damnation per prophecy. And Satan never enters a believer (and never entered Peter BTW, as some have foolishly said on this thread).

That is some wackadoo view you are holding bro. Scary really. A lot of what you say is scary to be honest.......:oops:
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,450
7,256
113
Read the context and see about Judas in the gospel. He left everything and followed Jesus around for about 3 years. Jesus guaranteed those people who did they would have eternal life. Just accept it, Judas was guaranteed salvation. :)
Can we safely assume that Judas is not headed to ultimate glorification? I think we can....

Mat 26:24
The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
Read the context and see about Judas in the gospel. He left everything and followed Jesus around for about 3 years. Jesus guaranteed those people who did they would have eternal life. Just accept it, Judas was guaranteed salvation. :)
Referring to Judas, Jesus stated it would have been better had he never been born.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
At one time I was encouraged that this site was a place where spiritual and personal growth was nurtured, but sadly what I see more is it’s a place where psychosis permeates.
 
Nov 26, 2021
1,125
545
113
India
Bro....salvation is a free gift. Rewards are a different matter.

Mat 20:8
“So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’

Mat 20:9
“And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius.

Mat 20:10
“But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius.
Mat 20:11

“And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner,

Mat 20:12
“saying, ‘These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’

Mat 20:13
“But he answered one of them and said, ‘Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius?

Mat 20:14
‘Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you.

Mat 20:15
‘Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’

Mat 20:16
“So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”
Agreed. Salvation is a Free Gift, but additional rewards are earned/merited. The Holy Spirit is a Free Gift, and if you die having the Holy Spirit, you are saved. You can lose the Holy Spirit by deadly sins such as apostasy etc, as 2 Pet 2:20-22.

Now, thankfully, many Christians don't commit apostasy etc. So most Christians who are saved by grace through faith and who remain by grace in that faith in Christ until death will be saved. Faith=Justification. Perseverance=Salvation.

Now, if you don't commit apostasy etc, then all for Good Works you do with Faith in Christ, you will be rewarded. What Good Works. Bible mentions at least 5 (1) Prayer (2) Fasting (3) Almsgiving (Mat 6; storing Treasures in Heaven), then (4) Evangelism, 1 Cor 3:8,13-15 etc and finally (5) Martyrdom, Rev 2:10, or (6) Carrying Crosses out of Love for the Lord. Gospels.

Will be back shortly to answer more, but here are 3 quick passages:

I. Mat 24:12 "Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm [endures/perseveres] to the end will be saved."

The Lord is teaching us:

(1) those who grow cold in love by apostatizing, turning away from Christ, to commit wickedness etc will not be saved.
(2) The word used is Agape for Love, which shows they were believers at first. Thus, believers can cease to love Christ.
(3) Some say the Lord is asking us to be sinless etc here. But He didn't. All He asked is to persevere in believing/loving Him.

II. Mat 18:32-34: "32 “Then the master called the servant in. ‘You wicked servant,’ he said, ‘I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33 Shouldn’t you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?’ 34 In anger his master handed him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed."

Here, we see the Lord refute OSAS, which could also be called "OFAS/OJAS" (Once Forgiven/Justified, Always Saved).

(1) This person was first forgiven by God. But then he sinfully refused to forgive his neighbor. For that, he was lost.
(2) Does that mean unforgiveneness is an unforgivable sin? Not at all. We just have to confess and repent of it.

If we do, we'll be saved. But this man didn't. Hence he was lost. It's clear asking for forgiveness is once is not enough.

III. Mat 24:

"45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

(1) Here again, we see the Lord expects faithful obedience not for a single hour, but until He comes again or our death.
(2) The first servant was faithful and did what the Lord asked. He was both saved and also richly rewarded.
(3) The second servant was wicked and refused to obey the Master. He was not saved and also punished.

If there is a doubt in the OT, clarify the doubt with the NT/Epistles etc.

But if there is a doubt in the Epistles, clarify the doubt from the Gospels.

Rabbi Saul/Saint Paul is indeed a great Rabbi, but Rabbi Yeshua, Jesus Christ Our Lord and Savior is Far, Far, Greater.

God Bless.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,679
113
Referring to Judas, Jesus stated it would have been better had he never been born.
Yes Jesus said that, but I don’t think that means what many people seem to think it means. There have even times in my life where I felt like it would have been better if I were never born, yet I’m saved.

I think Jesus’ point is that Judas was going to do something very bad and wish he was never born, it isn’t because he was not saved.

The Bible never says all of the unsaved people in the world would be better off having never been born. That’s why I’m sure Jesus’ comment is about the error Judas would make.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,043
26,159
113
Yes Jesus said that, but I don’t think that means what many people seem to think it means. There have even times in my life where I felt like it would have been better if I were never born, yet I’m saved.

I think Jesus’ point is that Judas was going to do something very bad and wish he was never born, it isn’t because he was not saved.

The Bible never says all of the unsaved people in the world would be better off having never been born. That’s why I’m sure Jesus’ comment is about the error Judas would make.
Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean,
though not every one of you.”
For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

An unclean person is a non-believer. Clearly He was referring to Judas. Your reasoning is flawed.
 

Snacks

Well-known member
Feb 10, 2022
1,410
771
113
Yes Jesus said that, but I don’t think that means what many people seem to think it means. There have even times in my life where I felt like it would have been better if I were never born, yet I’m saved.

I think Jesus’ point is that Judas was going to do something very bad and wish he was never born, it isn’t because he was not saved.

The Bible never says all of the unsaved people in the world would be better off having never been born. That’s why I’m sure Jesus’ comment is about the error Judas would make.
You share a very profound viewpoint and I can appreciate it, however after contemplation I still think Judas was cooked.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,679
113
Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean,
though not every one of you.”
For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

An unclean person is a non-believer.
It is sins that make someone unclean under the the old covenant such as is the case of someone with who has intent to betray an innocent person.

Isaiah 64
6All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
18,450
7,256
113
You can lose the Holy Spirit by deadly sins such as apostasy etc,
You can grieve the Spirit. And God may take you to the woodshed. But you cannot be unborn or unsealed or lose the earnest of the Spirit.

BTW......when you start with a doctrine of "losing your salvation" you can/may/will end up with a works/legalism cult.
 

Beckie

Well-known member
Feb 15, 2022
2,516
935
113
Yes. Jesus informed the 12 disciples that one of them in a devil and Peter insisted that they all believe in Jesus as the Chosen One of God.
Just like today we christians accept this speaker or that one only to later find they were/are not men of God. Peter is one of my favorite scripture personalities , because he is a lot like so many of us, just a blue collar guy.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
56,043
26,159
113
It is sins that make someone unclean under the the old covenant such as is the case of someone with who has intent to betray an innocent person.

Isaiah 64
6All of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous acts are like filthy rags; we all shrivel up like a leaf,
and like the wind our sins sweep us away.
So you think none of the other disciples of Jesus besides Judas had any sins? Wow.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,679
113
So you think none of the other disciples of Jesus besides Judas had any sins? Wow.
Why are you wowing? Clearly Judas had an unrepentant heart. The New Testament doesn’t say the other disciples had any repentance issues even though I’m sure they sinnedZ all people do. Therefore, Judas was unclean. In the end he did repent though. That’s good.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,679
113
he did not follow for the right reason.

You have people being saved with no faith my friend. Just because someone follows christians does not mean they are saved..
What reason did Judas leave everything and follow what appeared to be a random man without any obvious signs of riches?
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,679
113
No, he said WE

Your adding to the word of God
Unlike you, I wasn’t quoting a Bible verse with quotation marks and changing words. I was talking about a verse and paraphrasing it in my own words. Please don’t make false accusations. I know many Christians like to do that, but we can be better than that.