OSAS, When does salvation take place?

[enril]

That should be a little different then inviting strangers off the streets to come live with you, but relatives can be quite nutty and dangerous as well to your wife and children



That's all biblical. Glad to hear you believe that. How many people have you raised from the dead? Cleansed any leper lately?



Ah, the back peddle to avoid answering question about what you say you believe.



This is true. You got folks like this living with you?



You're in error, again as usual.

Nope. I'm a minor.
But I do know a few. and a few it's a lifestyle choice, because it's cheaper.

 

[Burn1986]

That should be a little different then inviting strangers off the streets to come live with you, but relatives can be quite nutty and dangerous as well to your wife and children



That's all biblical. Glad to hear you believe that. How many people have you raised from the dead? Cleansed any leper lately?



Ah, the back peddle to avoid answering question about what you say you believe.



This is true. You got folks like this living with you?



You're in error, again as usual.

Haha. I guess, but you’re just full of piss and vinegar (a mixture of anger/arrogance/inflexibility). You’re crusading on here about losing our salvation unless we strictly follow the Bible. Of course you gonna say, “Oh yeah, what about you?!” I don’t believe the same way. I believe that obedience is important, but I’m not on a crusade and joyfully proclaiming as my life’s platform “Hey everybody! Good news! You’re probably going to Hell unless you follow the Bible to the absolute letter! Cmon, let’s all get behind this! Yay!”

 

[ScooterJackson]

Haha. I guess, but you’re just full of piss and vinegar (a mixture of anger/arrogance/inflexibility). You’re crusading on here about losing our salvation unless we strictly follow the Bible. Of course you gonna say, “Oh yeah, what about you?!” I don’t believe the same way. I believe that obedience is important, but I’m not on a crusade and joyfully proclaiming as my life’s platform “Hey everybody! Good news! You’re probably going to Hell unless you follow the Bible to the absolute letter! Cmon, let’s all get behind this! Yay!”

So your life's platform is the opposite, telling everyone that they can disobey the Lord and live in sin and still go to Heaven?
Sounds about right.

 

[Burn1986]

So your life's platform is the opposite, telling everyone that they can disobey the Lord and live in sin and still go to Heaven?
Sounds about right.

Is that what I’m telling them? Haha. No. I am saying that we need to gird up our loins with truth, remind ourselves what God has told us, put on the helmet of salvation and begin pursuing Him. We also need the baptism of the Holy Spirit. What happened with the disciples in the upper room wasn’t just for them, it was for us too. In fact, I believe that we will be as unsound as Peter was until we’ve received it. All the disciples failed Jesus before the upper room experience. After they the received the Holy Spirit, they were fully equipped for ministry, and had a greater power to obey. They had the Holy Spirit giving them power to obey. Paul talks about it in 1 Corinthians 2, describing the power of the Holy Spirit. It is the spirit of the law, not the law itself. This is evidenced by the lives of the disciples before and after the upper room experience. Before, they had no power to obey, after they did, and more.

 

[ScooterJackson]

I am saying that we need to gird up our loins with truth, remind ourselves what God has told us, put on the helmet of salvation and begin pursuing Him.

The reformers will claim this is works based salvation, as in doing all this stuff is trying to earn one's salvation.
They claim God does everything and man does nothing.

How would you respond to that?

 

[Burn1986]

I was asked to start a new thread concerning this comment I made in another thread:

>If you read what He says in mat 7 we find out that we are not 'saved' till Judgement.

>21;“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22;Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23;And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

>Jesus is literally describing a day of judgement where most of us will be judged. The key to reconciling examples in the bible like the thief on the cross who was told today you will be with me in paradise; is that Jesus' judgement is the key. Meaning Jesus can judge you in this life as being saved like the thief on the cross, or He can condemn you as He did the pharisees who blasphemed the Holy Spirit in mat 7. Or it can happen at judgement as described in mat 7 "on that day." (Day of judgement.)

Once this judgement happens and Jesus judges you as being 'saved' you can never loose salvation.

We are not saved when we decide we want to be saved. Why? Because salvation is not a work it is a free gift from God. This means the Prays we pray, the plans of salvation we follow, the sacarments that we take, the creed we declare have nothing to do with biblical salvation. Jesus was asked in luke 10 How do we inherit eternal life:

25Now, a lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?”

26He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?”

27;He answered, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’

28He said to him, “You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live.”

Does this mean that all of the things we do to declare our intention to follow Jesus and be saved keeps us from salvation? No, I'm saying all Jesus said do is Love God with all of our ability to do so, if this means you must take communion and be baptized then for you This is absolutely what you must do to be saved at Judgement.

So we have nothing until the final judgement, I guess? So, the final judgement encompasses those that have already died too, right? So virtually no guarantees? It’s a “crap shoot” then?

 

[Drich]

So we have nothing until the final judgement, I guess?

Yes. You are not saved till Jesus welcomes you into the kingdom as demonstrated by Jesus' own words in mat 7's sermon on the mount.

So, the final judgement encompasses those that have already died too, right?

Most of us will not be judged till after death. There are a few exceptions.. The thief on the cross was judged while still alive, the pharisees who blasphemed the Holy Spirit where also judged, so where the Pharisees in mat 25. Everyone else is judged 'on that day."

So virtually no guarantees? It’s a “crap shoot” then?

No. We are required to have faith in Christ. What this means is we must believe that what He promises to be true.

Jesus in Luke 10 was asked point blank what must we do to inherit eternal life. He said (Paraphrasing) You must love God with all of your ability to do so and to love your neighbor as yourself. "Do this and you will inherit eternal life." (Quote)

If you have the faith you are supposed to have in Jesus, and have the Love He requires for us to have, then what Jesus says in luke 10 is your guarantee.

If you are asking is there a 'work' you can do in exchange for a binding agreement that Jesus must allow you into Heaven, no matter what else you do in life, then the answer is no. There is no prayer, baptism, sacrament, nor anything else will circumvent Jesus' finial judgement.

Which means if you believe there is a judgement where Jesus decides your fate, then you already believe as i do. In that salvation does not happen till our judgement day. Because no matter what happens in life Jesus at the end of life decides your fate. Otherwise you believe that your works, your prayer of faith, your confession, your baptism places you in a position to circumvent Jesus' Authority.. Meaning if you believe you are saved when ever you ____________ (Fill in the blank).. Then that Act that work saves you, and if that act saves you then nothing can undo that act. Hence OSAS

When you believe that Jesus saves you, what you are saying is that you by Faith in Him and what He has promised are turning your eternal fate over to Him. Because He is who He says He is, He will do what He has Promised to do. Which again according to mat 7 happens "On that day." Not when you decide. What you are deciding here on this earth, is whether or not you will become a disciple or not.. Like Judas, and those disciples/believers/students Jesus identifies in mat 7. not all who follow Jesus make it to the end.

 

[Burn1986]

Yes. You are not saved till Jesus welcomes you into the kingdom as demonstrated by Jesus' own words in mat 7's sermon on the mount.

Most of us will not be judged till after death. There are a few exceptions.. The thief on the cross was judged while still alive, the pharisees who blasphemed the Holy Spirit where also judged, so where the Pharisees in mat 25. Everyone else is judged 'on that day."

No. We are required to have faith in Christ. What this means is we must believe that what He promises to be true.

Jesus in Luke 10 was asked point blank what must we do to inherit eternal life. He said (Paraphrasing) You must love God with all of your ability to do so and to love your neighbor as yourself. "Do this and you will inherit eternal life." (Quote)

If you have the faith you are supposed to have in Jesus, and have the Love He requires for us to have, then what Jesus says in luke 10 is your guarantee.

If you are asking is there a 'work' you can do in exchange for a binding agreement that Jesus must allow you into Heaven, no matter what else you do in life, then the answer is no. There is no prayer, baptism, sacrament, nor anything else will circumvent Jesus' finial judgement.

Which means if you believe there is a judgement where Jesus decides your fate, then you already believe as i do. In that salvation does not happen till our judgement day. Because no matter what happens in life Jesus at the end of life decides your fate. Otherwise you believe that your works, your prayer of faith, your confession, your baptism places you in a position to circumvent Jesus' Authority.. Meaning if you believe you are saved when ever you ____________ (Fill in the blank).. Then that Act that work saves you, and if that act saves you then nothing can undo that act. Hence OSAS

When you believe that Jesus saves you, what you are saying is that you by Faith in Him and what He has promised are turning your eternal fate over to Him. Because He is who He says He is, He will do what He has Promised to do. Which again according to mat 7 happens "On that day." Not when you decide. What you are deciding here on this earth, is whether or not you will become a disciple or not.. Like Judas, and those disciples/believers/students Jesus identifies in mat 7. not all who follow Jesus make it to the end.

“…required…”? That sounds like law. Would that be the spirit or letter of the law?

Doesn’t matter. Let put you and Thunder Pharisee Scooter together - obey or else and if it been determined that you didn’t do the “required” faith then its Hell - no relationship, no love, no spirit, no heart, just obedience, requirements, and damnation. Black or white. Only the written letter of the law. Jesus and the Holy Spirit don’t matter. And you have to wait an inordinate amount of time for the great throne judgement. No assuredness, no spirit, no relationship, just hoping you don’t screw up or it’s hell for eternity.

Gotta admit, that sounds pretty bleak. But hey, y’all are the experts right? We can just rely on your and Thunder Pharisee Scooter’s interpretation of the scriptures, I guess.

 

[ScooterJackson]

this means is we must believe that what He promises to be true.

This also means we musty believe His warnings are true as well.
His warnings in scripture are His wisdom designed to help people not be ensnared by the enemy