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newlife7
Guest
I do not understand what you mean. There is a time to realize Hebrews 8:13 and that the law is made for sinners
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My understanding of the old and new wines is different, but it could be correct in a different understanding.
I have always thought of the old wine as our former selves before the conversion brought by the infilling of the blessed Holy Spirit. In suite, Jesus, the Word, is the new wine which is the new wine.
Another understanding is the wine is also symbolic of blood which is also symbolic of life, thus the old wine is life without the Blood of Christ making us new, and of course the new wine is Christ's Blood, His life which we share after salvation.
May Jesus bless all who are genuine in His sight, amen.
I have always thought of the old wine as our former selves before the conversion brought by the infilling of the blessed Holy Spirit. In suite, Jesus, the Word, is the new wine which is the new wine.
Another understanding is the wine is also symbolic of blood which is also symbolic of life, thus the old wine is life without the Blood of Christ making us new, and of course the new wine is Christ's Blood, His life which we share after salvation.
May Jesus bless all who are genuine in His sight, amen.
I forgot, please forgive that. My understanding of the covenant or "brit" made with Abraham is the promise of Messiah, our ÇGate or Door, being from Issrael by way of Judah. In this respect the covenant with Abraham is the fNew Covenant, and Abraham was aware of this covenant or brit when blessed by God. The old covenant is strict law, without mercy or grace. Jesus has taught us to obey all in grace always showing mercy.
2 Ti 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
I certainly agree that in Paul's time on earth the NT was not yet regarded as Scripture; but it certainly is now.
The writings of Paul are indeed both Scripture and sound teaching; and should certainly NOT be ignored!
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
I certainly agree that in Paul's time on earth the NT was not yet regarded as Scripture; but it certainly is now.
The writings of Paul are indeed both Scripture and sound teaching; and should certainly NOT be ignored!
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newlife7
Guest
I was just trying to explain that when Jesus says the old is better He isn't talking about the Old Testament because it never made anyone right with God. And two people seemed to actually think that Jesus meant the Old testament was better than the new from what I gathered about their comments.
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newlife7
Guest
Also I love discussing scriptures, but what I have learned is that somethings have to be learned from God.
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sltaylor
Guest
I've thought that too. The wine or cup of wrath. Mentioned several times in the OT. Thinking it's got to do with the drunkenness of sin, much like that which is poured on the nations, referenced in revelation. The cup that we will indeed drink from, sin. The wine that makes men 'stagger' etc. We all 'stumble' and stagger, in our natural selves it had the power over the flesh, the new wine, well that leads to life and takes the staggering away, makes us walk a little more 'straight and narrow', not so much fumbling, and staggering along that path indeed!
With these thoughts in mind, we come to understand more profoundly why the man said to Jesus, that unlike other wedding feastes, Jesus saved the best wine for last. Praise God, amen.
1Timothy 1:1, Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Savior, and Lord Jesus Christ, which is our hope; 1Tomothy 1:12, And i thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry; 1Timothy 1:14-15, And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom i am chief. 1Timothy 2:5, For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Do you think Peter grouped Paul's writings with "the other Scriptures" in 2Pe 3:16?
Do you think Paul in 1Ti 5:18b was referring to Luke's writings (LK 10:7) as Scripture?
If so, would they show the NT writings being accepted as Scripture during the time of the apostles?
You are misinterpreting belief in the NT doctrine of Paul as "belonging more to Paul than to Messiah."
Do you interpret belief in the NT doctrine of Peter, James, John, Matthew, Mark and Luke the same way?
Remember, Paul gave more doctrine than any other writer of the new covenant.
Of course he will be referred to more than doctrine of the old covenant and law.
Setting Paul against anything in the NT shows misunderstanding of the NT,
for God does not contradict himself in his word (2Tim 3:16).
God continues to grow?
Hmmmmm. . . .
God's voice differs?
Hmmmm. . . . .
Hmmmm. . . .
All Scripture is God-breathed. . .God's truth does not vary.
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Are you sure?
The wineskin of the Abrahamic covenant does not confine the gospel.
It's the Sinaitic covenant which is the old wineskin into which the newness of the gospel cannot be confined.
I understand it to be the "new covenant" wine of gospel grace which cannot be confined in the "old covenant" wineskin of righteousness by law-keeping.
And what is "learned from God" will be in agreement with God's word written. . .
The covenant, brit, made directly with Abraham by our Father is the New Wine for it foretells of the Gate, Jesus Chrisst, of his descendants enemies.
The old covenant is the covenant made with Israel when the law was presented, that they should obey all of the law, which we know is impossible.
It is the covenant promised Abraham for his descendants that is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Abraham knew grace and obeyed God, and he did this by knowing what God expects from His children. We know what God expects of us by the infilling of the Holy Spirit which leads us to all we need know.
Read the covenant made with Abraham by God, and you will not see the law mentioned.
The law is good when used lawfully. Lawfully is taught by Jesus Christ..
In reference to Paul's scripture being the most contained in the New Testament, many write about the Word, outside the NT of course, and they have written much more than has Paul. Keep in mind Paul was writing to specivic congregations with specific problems and customs. Even he would include that some of what he writes is his thinking, outside the box as it were. He also uses the first person singular in several of his recommendations as from himself. None of what I have repeated here is written in stone, but it is worthy of meditation.
I read the Word every day, and much of it is in the Epistles. Paul's writings are worthy of study, but with meditation an dprudence. So many people do have an "I-belong-to-Paul" mindset in their approach to study of the Word when there is so much more to learn from Jesus Christ, and that from Genesis through Revelation inclusive.
The old covenant is the covenant made with Israel when the law was presented, that they should obey all of the law, which we know is impossible.
It is the covenant promised Abraham for his descendants that is fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Abraham knew grace and obeyed God, and he did this by knowing what God expects from His children. We know what God expects of us by the infilling of the Holy Spirit which leads us to all we need know.
Read the covenant made with Abraham by God, and you will not see the law mentioned.
The law is good when used lawfully. Lawfully is taught by Jesus Christ..
In reference to Paul's scripture being the most contained in the New Testament, many write about the Word, outside the NT of course, and they have written much more than has Paul. Keep in mind Paul was writing to specivic congregations with specific problems and customs. Even he would include that some of what he writes is his thinking, outside the box as it were. He also uses the first person singular in several of his recommendations as from himself. None of what I have repeated here is written in stone, but it is worthy of meditation.
I read the Word every day, and much of it is in the Epistles. Paul's writings are worthy of study, but with meditation an dprudence. So many people do have an "I-belong-to-Paul" mindset in their approach to study of the Word when there is so much more to learn from Jesus Christ, and that from Genesis through Revelation inclusive.
yahweh shows grace and mercy to his chosen people in the OT , for example here >>>
deuteronomy 7
6"For you are a holy people to the LORD your God; the LORD your God has chosen you to be a people for His own possession out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth. 7"The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any of the peoples, for you were the fewest of all peoples, 8but because the LORD loved you and kept the oath which He swore to your forefathers, the LORD brought you out by a mighty hand and redeemed you from the house of slavery, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.…
also,
as it is written in HIS WORD "i will show mercy on whom i chose to show mercy, i will harden whom i chose to harden"
i.e. he doesn't have mercy on everyone. he would, but they would not, so he doesn't. (like when yahshua said he would gather jerusalem under his wings, but they would not. )
Do you think Peter grouped Paul's writings with "the other Scriptures" in 2Pe 3:16?
It appears so since γράμματα seems to be used solely in reference to Holy Writ; however historical evidence indicates that they were not yet widely accepted as Scripture.
Do you think Paul in 1Ti 5:18b was referring to Luke's writings (LK 10:7) as Scripture?
It would appear to be so. Yes!
If so, would they show the NT writings being accepted as Scripture during the time of the apostles
Certainly your citations indicate that Peter and Paul did at least to some extent. Again I still believe historical evidence indicates that they were not yet widely accepted as Scripture.
I certainly agree that my opinion and even historical evidence are not definitive.
Scripture cited certainly indicates that they were at least beginning to gain acceptance.
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