Predestination or free wiil.
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Gal 2: 16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.
This says we were justified by Faith, because we have believed in the one Christ.
So why would you use a passage tht says we are justified when we trusted God, tosupport a view we were not justified by faith?
This says we were justified by Faith, because we have believed in the one Christ.
So why would you use a passage tht says we are justified when we trusted God, tosupport a view we were not justified by faith?
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Lol.
Are you sure your not John??
think, what your saying does not make sense. It goes against what was said, “even we who believe”
So when you see, “we have the faith OF Christ, even in we who believe.....” You have us having faith and us having faith, either way, It is our faith which justifies us.
Yeah, thats why the KJV is flawed in some areas..
Are you sure your not John??
think, what your saying does not make sense. It goes against what was said, “even we who believe”
So when you see, “we have the faith OF Christ, even in we who believe.....” You have us having faith and us having faith, either way, It is our faith which justifies us.
Yeah, thats why the KJV is flawed in some areas..
Here is where you missed it. God has asked natural men to obey His laws. All the time dealing with ancient Israel, God was not offering salvation. They were physically God's people and they had to physically obey. Salvation as we know it wasn't on the table.
That said, God has always been open to people for salvation. Those that sought God with all their hearts and minds were promised to find Him.
Jer. 29:11-14a "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:"
2 Ch. 15:2 "And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you."
That said, God has always been open to people for salvation. Those that sought God with all their hearts and minds were promised to find Him.
Jer. 29:11-14a "For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end. Then shall ye call upon me, and ye shall go and pray unto me, and I will hearken unto you. And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart. And I will be found of you, saith the LORD:"
2 Ch. 15:2 "And he went out to meet Asa, and said unto him, Hear ye me, Asa, and all Judah and Benjamin; The LORD is with you, while ye be with him; and if ye seek him, he will be found of you; but if ye forsake him, he will forsake you."
You just dodged the question!
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
!!!!! If calvinism is true, and the verse ^ above is true, universalism is true. Only consistent calvinist is a universalist! God wants all to be saved, God's will ALWAYS happens -> therefore all are saved.
See how easy it is to flip the script? You guys always do that to us who believe in free will and say we should be open-theists or "well if God foreknows and chooses to create anyway then ...." on and on.
Calvinism got exposed yet again. Im waiting for my good friend posthuman to reply, maybe he can tell me something instead of running away to a completely unrelated passage.
This topic gets me fired up. Imagine preaching the gospel as a calvinist and realizing you are preaching BAD NEWS to most people. Its only good news to the elect.
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
!!!!! If calvinism is true, and the verse ^ above is true, universalism is true. Only consistent calvinist is a universalist! God wants all to be saved, God's will ALWAYS happens -> therefore all are saved.
See how easy it is to flip the script? You guys always do that to us who believe in free will and say we should be open-theists or "well if God foreknows and chooses to create anyway then ...." on and on.
Calvinism got exposed yet again. Im waiting for my good friend posthuman to reply, maybe he can tell me something instead of running away to a completely unrelated passage.
This topic gets me fired up. Imagine preaching the gospel as a calvinist and realizing you are preaching BAD NEWS to most people. Its only good news to the elect.
Just common sense will tell you that if it was God's desire that all mankind would obey him and come to him and be saved eternally, and he had the power to save them even if they did not say yes, save me, that if he loved them, then he would take them anyway. I don't know if you have children, but if you do. If a pack of pit bull dogs were attacking your three children out in your front yard and you were calling them to come into the safety of your house and one of them refused to come because he was too scared, would you just stand there and let the dogs kill him, or go and save him? Can you see how unreasonable that sounds.
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Well yeah, God could have made all people robots. Forced them all to obey him and do as he pleases. Never give them the ability to see what it is like to go outside of his will, and see what happens when they do this. In whihc case it would not be a love relationship between a child and his creator it would be a dictatorship between a dictator (in this case, God) and his subject (in this case, mankind)
If God wanted this type of creation, he never would have put the tree of Good and Evil in the garden, and never gave Adam and Eve even the possibility of sinning, He did it Because any relationship if any kind demands two people recieving love and trust from each other.
God created mankind to serve them, and them to recieve his love and in turn serve others.
So no, You example not only does not make any sense, it is horrific. You want to be a robot have fun. But God never desires to make us his robots. Thats what Satan wants you to think
If God wanted this type of creation, he never would have put the tree of Good and Evil in the garden, and never gave Adam and Eve even the possibility of sinning, He did it Because any relationship if any kind demands two people recieving love and trust from each other.
God created mankind to serve them, and them to recieve his love and in turn serve others.
So no, You example not only does not make any sense, it is horrific. You want to be a robot have fun. But God never desires to make us his robots. Thats what Satan wants you to think
What great lengths you go to in asserting I stated what you claim.
Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I said what you claim. Thank you.
Right. 1 Cor 2:14 depicts the born again child of God who is a babe in Christ who is living in light of who he/she is in Adam. This young believer is living according to the natural ("lower") aspect of humanity, i.e. the behavior that is "more of earth (carnality) than heaven". That is the definition of the Greek word psyxikós which is translated into the English word "natural".
The "natural man" described in 1 Cor 2:14 is the same as those described a couple verses later in 1 Cor 3:1 ... those who are "carnal" and who are yet "babes in Christ".
That you want the natural man of 1 Cor 2:14 to be the same as those described in Eph 2:2-3 does not make it so.
Just stick to the context of what is written in 1 Cor 1 – 3 and there is no confusion as to who is the "natural man".
Because you jump from 1 Cor 2:14 to Eph 2:2-3, you change the carnal Christian of 1 Cor 2:14 into the unbeliever of Eph 2:2-3.
In so doing, you completely miss the point Paul is trying to make in 1 Cor. Paul wrote to those who followed men instead of the Lord Jesus Christ and because they followed men, there were contentions (1 Cor 1:11) and division (1 Cor 1:13, 3:3).
The division in the church was not because some were believers and some unbelievers. The division in the church was a result of some believers turning from the Lord Jesus Christ to follow men. When we follow men and/or man's doctrine, we remain in spiritual infancy and must feed on the milk of the Word. The carnal Christian can understand Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Cor 2:2).
The carnal Christian cannot understand the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory (1 Cor 2:7).
We know and understand this because Scripture teaches this truth in 1 Corinthians chapters 1 through 3.
Rather than go to Eph 2 in your efforts to make 1 Cor 2:14 state what you claim, why not just read what is written in 1 Cor? Oh yeah, if you did that, your dogma falls apart.
Please provide the post submitted by me wherein I said what you claim. Thank you.
Right. 1 Cor 2:14 depicts the born again child of God who is a babe in Christ who is living in light of who he/she is in Adam. This young believer is living according to the natural ("lower") aspect of humanity, i.e. the behavior that is "more of earth (carnality) than heaven". That is the definition of the Greek word psyxikós which is translated into the English word "natural".
The "natural man" described in 1 Cor 2:14 is the same as those described a couple verses later in 1 Cor 3:1 ... those who are "carnal" and who are yet "babes in Christ".
That you want the natural man of 1 Cor 2:14 to be the same as those described in Eph 2:2-3 does not make it so.
Just stick to the context of what is written in 1 Cor 1 – 3 and there is no confusion as to who is the "natural man".
Because you jump from 1 Cor 2:14 to Eph 2:2-3, you change the carnal Christian of 1 Cor 2:14 into the unbeliever of Eph 2:2-3.
In so doing, you completely miss the point Paul is trying to make in 1 Cor. Paul wrote to those who followed men instead of the Lord Jesus Christ and because they followed men, there were contentions (1 Cor 1:11) and division (1 Cor 1:13, 3:3).
The division in the church was not because some were believers and some unbelievers. The division in the church was a result of some believers turning from the Lord Jesus Christ to follow men. When we follow men and/or man's doctrine, we remain in spiritual infancy and must feed on the milk of the Word. The carnal Christian can understand Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Cor 2:2).
The carnal Christian cannot understand the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory (1 Cor 2:7).
We know and understand this because Scripture teaches this truth in 1 Corinthians chapters 1 through 3.
Rather than go to Eph 2 in your efforts to make 1 Cor 2:14 state what you claim, why not just read what is written in 1 Cor? Oh yeah, if you did that, your dogma falls apart.
As shown in 1 Cor 2:2, Paul was able to teach the natural man, those believers who were babes in Christ (1 Cor 3:1) about Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1 Cor 2:2).
But because you jump from 1 Cor 2:14 to Eph 2:2-3, you change the Word of God to fit your preconceived doctrine.
Your doctrine does not change the context of what is written in 1 Cor 1 – 3.
But because you jump from 1 Cor 2:14 to Eph 2:2-3, you change the Word of God to fit your preconceived doctrine.
Your doctrine does not change the context of what is written in 1 Cor 1 – 3.