pretribulationalist?

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Jul 3, 2011
2,417
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#61
It is a simple as 1+2=3.

1) The 2nd Coming is after the Tribulation Matthew 24:29-31, and Mark 13:24-27
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2) The resurrection of the just, and the rapture occur at the 2nd coming 1st Corinthians 15:20-23, and 1st Thessalonians 4:15-17
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3 That rapture is after the Tribulation


If you cannot do simple addition, and are afraid to suffer for Christ, then you will probably keep looking for an escape clause.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#62
Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee.

Jesus is the vine and we are the branches we are not some church branches.

This is a stern warning from Paul to take heed les he spared not THEE.me and you. For we are the branches and Jesus is the vine, not some church branches.

Twisting of the scripters keep trying eternally-gratefull
Hmm lets see. Do I use your interpretation. or study it to see what is really going on?

Who are the natural branches? National Israel. God has not spared even them. He is going to cut them off.(although not all Israel will be cut off. The apostles Jesus spoke to were saved. as were many others. it is a national thing not an individual thing)
Paul even speaks of this in romans 11 when he says the natural branches (Israel) was being cut off, and the gentiles (church) was being grafted in. But just as the gentiles were grafted in, They can be cut off and the Natural branches grafted back in.

I will take the interpretation which fits the context. And not some twisted interpretation to try to make my belief come true;. Thanks.


Mark 9: 43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

It’s you that twists the scripters, the bible speaks for its self.
42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—

Jesus is talking about someone leading those who believe in him astray. IE teaching a false gospel. Then he uses terms like hands and eyes. If it is the things of this world (things you do, or things you see (lusts) which is keeping you from truth. And you wish to take otherds down with you. it is better to cut those things off so you will recieve the true word. and be given Gods grace. then to reject Gods grace because the things of this world are more important to you.

Yeah who is twisting??


So you haven’t made your mind up about the pre-trib post-trib NO.
What’s this then??
“Matt 10: 22 talks about those in the final days of tribulation. It is not talking about spiritual life, but physical life. If you endure to the end without being killed, Executed, or whatever, You will be saved, and enter the kingdom. All others will be killed when Christ returns at the final battle”.
This is pre-tribulation stuff. So you haven’t made your mind lol.


Matthew 24:13But he that shall ENDURE unto THE end, THE same shall be saved.

If you ENDURE unto THE end because it will be tuff, and don’t take the mark of the beast you will be saved.

If you get Executed, you will be saved.

If you die in your sleep you will be saved.

If you make it to the last day you will be saved.

Your interpretation sucks, you know why, because there is no PRE_TRIB RAPTURE It is a delusion.
[/quote]

23 When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
But And

What is there to see? This is talking about extreme persecution at the end of the age, right before and during the during great tribulation. When men turn against their wives, and brother against sister. and best friend against best friend because if you do not worship the beast you will be killed. This all happens before the son of man returns. He who endures to the end, and does not give into the beast, or survives this brutal persecuation will be saved when the son of man returns.

Pre-trib? Mid trib? Post trib? Does not matter. non of these doctrines remove that this is what will happen. If the church is here or if it is not and not raptured until the end. It still goes. Whoever is alive on earth and endures to the end will be saved (spared his physical life) when the son of man returns to set up his kingdom and destroys evil

Nice try though!


any more tries? I think your running out of verses to use!
 
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peterT

Guest
#63
“Matt 10: 22 talks about those in the final days of tribulation. It is not talking about spiritual life, but physical life. If you endure to the end without being killed, Executed, or whatever, You will be saved, and enter the kingdom. All others will be killed when Christ returns at the final battle”.


What are you taking about here.? if you are killed or executed you will still be saved.
If you endure to the end without being killed, Executed, or whatever, You will be saved,
 

Adrianv125

Senior Member
Jan 17, 2011
567
12
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#64
Revelation 6:12-17<<(WRATH OF GOD BEGINS)

12 I looked when He opened the sixth seal, and behold,[e] there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon[f] became like blood. 13 And the stars of heaven fell to the earth, as a fig tree drops its late figs when it is shaken by a mighty wind. 14 Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place. 15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders,[g] the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the WRATH of the Lamb!17 For the great day of His WRATH has come, and who is able to stand?”

Revelation 7:1-8<<(GOD'S PEOPLE *ISRAEL* ARE SEALED. TAKE NOTE THAT NO GENTILE IS SEALED,ONLY THEM)

The Sealed of Israel

1 After these things I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, on the sea, or on any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God. And he cried with a loud voice to the four angels to whom it was granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth, the sea, or the trees till we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of those who were sealed. One hundred and forty-four thousand of all the tribes OF THE CHILDREN OF *ISRAEL*l were sealed:
5 of the tribe of Judah twelve thousand were sealed;[a]
of the tribe of Reuben twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Gad twelve thousand were sealed;
6 of the tribe of Asher twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Naphtali twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Manasseh twelve thousand were sealed;
7 of the tribe of Simeon twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Levi twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Issachar twelve thousand were sealed;
8 of the tribe of Zebulun twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Joseph twelve thousand were sealed;
of the tribe of Benjamin twelve thousand were sealed.

Revelation 9:1-4<<(THOSE WITHOUT THE SEAL OF GOD SUFFER WRATH)

Fifth Trumpet: The Locusts from the Bottomless Pit

1 Then the fifth angel sounded: And I saw a star fallen from heaven to the earth. To him was given the key to the bottomless pit. 2 And he opened the bottomless pit, and smoke arose out of the pit like the smoke of a great furnace. So the sun and the air were darkened because of the smoke of the pit. 3 Then out of the smoke locusts came upon the earth. And to them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. 4 They were commanded not to harm the grass of the earth, or any green thing, or any tree, but only those men who do not have the SEAL OF GOD on their foreheads.

So peter...How are you going to go through the tribulation? Don't you know you will suffer the wrath of the lamb? are you part of the 144,000? These are Israelites. John wouldn't have wasted his time in writing the specific tribes to which they belong. If I am right you are not an Israelite or part of those tribes. And anyone who isn't part of those tribes will suffer the WRATH of the lamb.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

9 For God has not destined us for WRATH, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,


But you know what. I know exactly what you are going to do just like you've done it the many times I shared clear scripture showing that your belief that we are going through the tribulation is false. You are just going to deny these CLEAR scriptures which are in no way twisted or used out of context and you will simply remain in your belief out of stubbornness but that is between you and God. So yeah, in any way God bless you and if you are truly His child then He will discipline you.
 
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peterT

Guest
#65
Nice try though!

any more tries? I think your running out of verses to use!
It is YOU that is twisting the scriptures for you add to the words, and you take away from the words.

It’s you that twists the scripters, the bible speaks for its self.

42 “But whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in Me to stumble, it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. 43 If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed, rather than having two hands, to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched—

You have taken away from the word “to go to hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched
And added to the word in its sted “someone leading those who believe in him astray”
Jesus is talking about “someone leading those who believe in him astray”
It’s you that twists the scripters, the bible speaks for its self.


It is YOU that is twisting the scriptures for you add to the words, and you take away from the words.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath. 30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

the bible speaks for its self. The servant was cast into outer darkness.
Its NOT Once saved always saved.

"I will also never call God an Indian giver. A deceiver. I never called God a deceiver or a Indian giver But he did take one talent from his unprofitable servant and give it to another, and cast that unprofitable servant into outer darkness.

28 Take therefore the talent from him, and give [it] unto him which hath ten talents.

And he put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.

And God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe a lie.


But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Its NOT Once saved always saved.

If you continue to have faith in Jesus and don’t bow to the image and don’t be tempted to take the mark of the beast you will be saved, whether you die in the lord or live to the last day. for as it says (and DON’T try and twists the scripters just leave it alone)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air

But if you take the mark of the beast you give up your right to be saved, for as it says (and DON’T try and twists the scripters just leave it alone)

And THE smoke OF their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship THE BEAST and his image, and whosoever receiveth THE MARK OF his name.

Its NOT Once saved always saved. for as it says. (and DON’T try and twists the scripters just leave it alone)

If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel,

. And don’t try (and DON’T try and twists the scripters just leave it alone)

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take THY crown.

Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, [take heed] lest he also spare not thee

Jesus is the vine and we are the branches “lest he also spare not thee” you, me, everybody, in Christ Jesus.
(and DON’T try and twists the scripters just leave it alone)

Its NOT Once saved always saved.

And for someone who saysI nev4er claimed I was pre-trib. I have not decided yet”

I have been looking at your past posts and you defend the pre-trib doctrine that does not exist.
And you never come to the defence of the post-trib doctrine that does exist.
We don’t need you to interpret the scripture for us we are not stooped, for the bible speaks for its self. Who do you think you are interpreting interpreting interpreting interpreting for 4 days without any scripters
 
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peterT

Guest
#66
So peter...How are you going to go through the tribulation? Don't you know you will suffer the wrath of the lamb? are you part of the 144,000? These are Israelites. John wouldn't have wasted his time in writing the specific tribes to which they belong. If I am right you are not an Israelite or part of those tribes. And anyone who isn't part of those tribes will suffer the WRATH of the lamb.

1 Thessalonians 5:9

9 For God has not destined us for WRATH, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,


But you know what. I know exactly what you are going to do just like you've done it the many times I shared clear scripture showing that your belief that we are going through the tribulation is false. You are just going to deny these CLEAR scriptures which are in no way twisted or used out of context and you will simply remain in your belief out of stubbornness but that is between you and God. So yeah, in any way God bless you and if you are truly His child then He will discipline you.
Your words have no faith just lake of faith and fear

Colossians 3:6 - the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Romans 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness

Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians.

There is no twisting of scriptures here.

Have you not read in the Bible about Moses and the Plagues of Egypt, how God will keep you safe if you obey.
Did God keep the children of Israel from the plagues of Egypt or through the plagues Egypt?
Did God keep Noah from the flood or through the flood?
Did God keep Daniel from the liens or through the liens?
Did God keep Daniel from the fire or through the fire?

THE WRATH IS POURD OUT ON THE WICKED. So God hath not appointed us to wrath

1 Thessalonians 5:9For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 2:8But unto them that are contentious, and do not OBEY the truth, but OBEY unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,

There is no twisting of scriptures here.

Daniel 11:35 And [some] of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make [them] WHITE, [even] to the time of the end: because [it is] yet for a time appointed.

Daniel 12:10Many shall be purified, and made WHITE, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
 
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peterT

Guest
#67
So peter...How are you going to go through the tribulation? Don't you know you will suffer the wrath of the lamb? are you part of the 144,000? These are Israelites. John wouldn't have wasted his time in writing the specific tribes to which they belong. If I am right you are not an Israelite or part of those tribes. And anyone who isn't part of those tribes will suffer the WRATH of the lamb.

.
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, GREETINGS. James is talking to the church GREETINGS twelve tribes.

We are grafted into the word because Jesus is the word.

Romans 2: 28 For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he IS a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

12 tribes we are, grafted into the vine Jesus the word because Jesus is the word.
 

Adrianv125

Senior Member
Jan 17, 2011
567
12
18
#68
James 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, GREETINGS. James is talking to the church GREETINGS twelve tribes.

We are grafted into the word because Jesus is the word.

Romans 2: 28 For he is NOT a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither [is that] circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he IS a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God.

12 tribes we are, grafted into the vine Jesus the word because Jesus is the word.
sigh....

yeah I knew you'd do it. whatever.
 
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peterT

Guest
#69
sigh....

yeah I knew you'd do it. whatever.
Why ask me then?
Are we Not the 12 tribes?
Are we NOT Gods Jews?
Are we NOT virgins.?
2 Corinthians 11:2 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ.