Public prayer....Matthew 6:5

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StrugglingTilMyReward

StrugglingTilMyReward

Well-known member
#1
Aug 10, 2019
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#1
“When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most certainly, I tell you, they have received their reward..."

This passage is followed by Jesus instructing his disciples how to pray, in private with what's known as The Lord's Prayer.

I'm not posting this with the intent of preaching, because frankly I don't know enough to preach. I simply enjoy hearing different perspectives on things that I wonder about and ponder on.

My old church, and pretty much every church I ever attended, the Lord's Prayer was always part of the liturgy...and its something I wondered about. For me synagogue and church are the same thing, places of worship. This passage shows Jesus admonishing his disciples to not pray in public, instead he gives them a prayer to say in private....and many if not most churches include what seems to me a private prayer and have made it part of the public service.

My new church, which is from the Reformed tradition (CRC) does not include the Lord's Prayer. But we do lots of other prayers: Prayer for understanding, prayer for forgiveness, prayers for the congregation, thanksgiving....4 or 5 prayers delivered by various people during the worship service.

Another final point, one that I hope you find humorous....its about the end of the Lord's Prayer, in most churches I heard the prayer ended with these words: "For ever and ever, amen". I stopped saying that myself, and now say "Now and forever, amen". Why do we say "forever and ever". Isn't FOREVER enough? Its...forever, forever doesn't end. Isn't it kind of like saying, "without limits and no limits too".

Thoughts?
 
D

dodgingstones

Active member
#2
Nov 20, 2019
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#2
That person was not praying to God, he was praying to be seen and heard by men. Jesus is concerned about the person's heart when they pray. A sincere and contrite heart is needed. Pray in private or in the Congregation.

Scripture teaches that we are to pray over others. In James I believe. Paul too mayhaps.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#3
Jul 2, 2011
21,412
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#3
Because of this prayer which we all pray always, I pray most of the time in the first person plural. I do pray in the singular for persona matters but overall I enjoy and feel connected to all when I pray in the plural following the Example...Jesus, Yeshua, is wonderful, and His burden is light, amen.
 
I

IFOLLOWHIM

Guest
#4
#4
In my opinion it was given as a pattern of prayer!
Breakdown:
OUR FATHER WHICH ART IN HEAVEN............recognizing that God is supreme and creator of all this world!
HALLOWED BE THE NAME..................recognizing that as supreme creator,He alone deserves to be honoured and worshipped in holiness!
THY KINGDOM COME...................He is owner of all,the cattle on a thousand hills,all silver and gold and ALL souls!
THEY WILL BE DONE IN EARTH,AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.................there is unity,love and peace in heaven,we are to pray this same WILL into our lives!
GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD.................recognizing He being the good Father gives unto us ALL that we have!
AND FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS,AS WE FORGIVE OUR DEBTORS.............. We must be forgiving to be forgiven. We must also recognize when we trespass against Him! Confess all before Him,that we can also forgive!
AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPATION,BUT DELIVER U.S. FROM EVIL..........we know God doesn't tempt man but we pray His Spirit will lead to be aware of the snares of satan.......when we are tempted,He makes a way of escape and is our advocate so sin doesn't separate us from Him!
FOR THINE IS THE KINGDOM,AND THE POWER,AND THE GLORY................. He is sovereign above ALL else He alone has the power we need to overcome,and it is His glory that is awesome!
FOREVER..........God is ETERNAL! Alpha,and Omega,the first and last ,the beginning and the end!
AMEN................Agreement!
 
StrugglingTilMyReward

StrugglingTilMyReward

Well-known member
#5
Aug 10, 2019
552
437
63
Canada
#5
IFOLLOWHIM said:
In my opinion it was given as a pattern of prayer!
Breakdown:
OUR FATHER WHICH ART IN HEAVEN............recognizing that God is supreme and creator of all this world!
HALLOWED BE THE NAME..................recognizing that as supreme creator,He alone deserves to be honoured and worshipped in holiness!
THY KINGDOM COME...................He is owner of all,the cattle on a thousand hills,all silver and gold and ALL souls!
THEY WILL BE DONE IN EARTH,AS IT IS IN HEAVEN.................there is unity,love and peace in heaven,we are to pray this same WILL into our lives!
GIVE US THIS DAY OUR DAILY BREAD.................recognizing He being the good Father gives unto us ALL that we have!
AND FORGIVE US OUR DEBTS,AS WE FORGIVE OUR DEBTORS.............. We must be forgiving to be forgiven. We must also recognize when we trespass against Him! Confess all before Him,that we can also forgive!
AND LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPATION,BUT DELIVER U.S. FROM EVIL..........we know God doesn't tempt man but we pray His Spirit will lead to be aware of the snares of satan.......when we are tempted,He makes a way of escape and is our advocate so sin doesn't separate us from Him!
FOR THINE IS THE KINGDOM,AND THE POWER,AND THE GLORY................. He is sovereign above ALL else He alone has the power we need to overcome,and it is His glory that is awesome!
FOREVER..........God is ETERNAL! Alpha,and Omega,the first and last ,the beginning and the end!
AMEN................Agreement!
Click to expand...
I asked the pastor at a church I used to attend this question (one where the Lord's Pray'er was said during the service) and he gave a very similar response to this....I think he used the word checklist.
 
D

DB7

Junior Member
#6
Dec 29, 2014
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#6
StrugglingTilMyReward said:
“When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most certainly, I tell you, they have received their reward..."

This passage is followed by Jesus instructing his disciples how to pray, in private with what's known as The Lord's Prayer.

I'm not posting this with the intent of preaching, because frankly I don't know enough to preach. I simply enjoy hearing different perspectives on things that I wonder about and ponder on.

My old church, and pretty much every church I ever attended, the Lord's Prayer was always part of the liturgy...and its something I wondered about. For me synagogue and church are the same thing, places of worship. This passage shows Jesus admonishing his disciples to not pray in public, instead he gives them a prayer to say in private....and many if not most churches include what seems to me a private prayer and have made it part of the public service.

My new church, which is from the Reformed tradition (CRC) does not include the Lord's Prayer. But we do lots of other prayers: Prayer for understanding, prayer for forgiveness, prayers for the congregation, thanksgiving....4 or 5 prayers delivered by various people during the worship service.

Another final point, one that I hope you find humorous....its about the end of the Lord's Prayer, in most churches I heard the prayer ended with these words: "For ever and ever, amen". I stopped saying that myself, and now say "Now and forever, amen". Why do we say "forever and ever". Isn't FOREVER enough? Its...forever, forever doesn't end. Isn't it kind of like saying, "without limits and no limits too".

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
As dodgingStones said, it was the ostentation that offended the Lord. One cannot be trying to please both men and God at the same time. Pray wherever you like, as long as you are focused and dedicated to only God when doing so.
I may be wrong, but the latter part of the Lord's Prayer may be a later interpolation (added by scribe, not original author).
Either way, it's for ever and ever, not forever and ever. Not the same, and like you said, the latter is redundant, ...but, again, the redundant expression is not the actual wording.
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#7
Jan 12, 2019
7,497
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#7
StrugglingTilMyReward said:
“When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most certainly, I tell you, they have received their reward..."

This passage is followed by Jesus instructing his disciples how to pray, in private with what's known as The Lord's Prayer.

I'm not posting this with the intent of preaching, because frankly I don't know enough to preach. I simply enjoy hearing different perspectives on things that I wonder about and ponder on.

My old church, and pretty much every church I ever attended, the Lord's Prayer was always part of the liturgy...and its something I wondered about. For me synagogue and church are the same thing, places of worship. This passage shows Jesus admonishing his disciples to not pray in public, instead he gives them a prayer to say in private....and many if not most churches include what seems to me a private prayer and have made it part of the public service.

My new church, which is from the Reformed tradition (CRC) does not include the Lord's Prayer. But we do lots of other prayers: Prayer for understanding, prayer for forgiveness, prayers for the congregation, thanksgiving....4 or 5 prayers delivered by various people during the worship service.

Another final point, one that I hope you find humorous....its about the end of the Lord's Prayer, in most churches I heard the prayer ended with these words: "For ever and ever, amen". I stopped saying that myself, and now say "Now and forever, amen". Why do we say "forever and ever". Isn't FOREVER enough? Its...forever, forever doesn't end. Isn't it kind of like saying, "without limits and no limits too".

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
The dispensationalist would say, "That is a prayer for the Jews about the physical Kingdom of God to come on Earth, which was the gospel Jesus and the 12 offered to the Jews then".

Like the Sermon of the Mount, it is not directly applicable to the Body of Christ for today, although we could learn certain principles from that prayer.
 
D

dodgingstones

Active member
#8
Nov 20, 2019
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#8
IMO, it is very important to the Church 2day. I don't subscribe 2 the Two Gospel theology. One Gospel! Just as Paul said.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#9
Jan 13, 2016
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#9
dodgingstones said:
IMO, it is very important to the Church 2day. I don't subscribe 2 the Two Gospel theology. One Gospel! Just as Paul said.
Click to expand...
Can you quote Scripture where Jesus and His disciples were going around preaching the gospel of grace, that is Christ’s death, burial and resurrection for sin? Thanks.
 
D

dodgingstones

Active member
#10
Nov 20, 2019
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#10
Could but not on my phone... Jesus spoke of His sacrifice more than once. Try searching a little. The Disciples spike of it in their Epistles as well

Two Gospel ideology is flawed at best, and dangerous at worst IMO.

Do some study on what Jesus taught to the Disciples.
 
posthuman

posthuman

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#11
Jul 31, 2013
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#11
Pastor asked me to say a prayer before a study group once. I got up immediately and went into a closet. They never asked me again.
 
D

dodgingstones

Active member
#12
Nov 20, 2019
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#12
Search Hints:

As the serpent was lifted up...
Tear down this Temple, and I will...
You will drink from the cup...
The entire Gospel of John...
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#15
Jan 13, 2016
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#15
dodgingstones said:
Could but not on my phone... Jesus spoke of His sacrifice more than once. Try searching a little. The Disciples spike of it in their Epistles as well

Two Gospel ideology is flawed at best, and dangerous at worst IMO.

Do some study on what Jesus taught to the Disciples.
Click to expand...
He did not teach them about Hid death, burial and resurrection. He mentioned it a couple times and they had no clue what He was talking about. Peter even rebuked Him for saying such things.
 
D

dodgingstones

Active member
#16
Nov 20, 2019
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#16
Woman at the well... Nicodemus
On and on...
You choose to not accept it doesn't make it so....
 
Deade

Deade

Called of God
#17
Dec 17, 2017
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yeshuaofisrael.org
#17
StrugglingTilMyReward said:
“When you pray, you shall not be as the hypocrites, for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Most certainly, I tell you, they have received their reward..."

This passage is followed by Jesus instructing his disciples how to pray, in private with what's known as The Lord's Prayer.

I'm not posting this with the intent of preaching, because frankly I don't know enough to preach. I simply enjoy hearing different perspectives on things that I wonder about and ponder on.

My old church, and pretty much every church I ever attended, the Lord's Prayer was always part of the liturgy...and its something I wondered about. For me synagogue and church are the same thing, places of worship. This passage shows Jesus admonishing his disciples to not pray in public, instead he gives them a prayer to say in private....and many if not most churches include what seems to me a private prayer and have made it part of the public service.

My new church, which is from the Reformed tradition (CRC) does not include the Lord's Prayer. But we do lots of other prayers: Prayer for understanding, prayer for forgiveness, prayers for the congregation, thanksgiving....4 or 5 prayers delivered by various people during the worship service.

Another final point, one that I hope you find humorous....its about the end of the Lord's Prayer, in most churches I heard the prayer ended with these words: "For ever and ever, amen". I stopped saying that myself, and now say "Now and forever, amen". Why do we say "forever and ever". Isn't FOREVER enough? Its...forever, forever doesn't end. Isn't it kind of like saying, "without limits and no limits too".

Thoughts?
Click to expand...
There are all kinds of prayer. Each is good and useful for their intended purposes. We pray in groups for unified answers: Matt. 18:19 "Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven." The more agreeing, the better.

We also show we are not ashamed of our Christian walk: Matt. 10:32 "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven."

We pray in private ofttimes. Sometimes in memorized prayers to help us remember the things we should ask and give thanks for. Then we can just have a conversation with God. We can do that silently throughout our day.

The purpose of prayer should never be used to impress others. That is what Jesus was saying was a hypocritical prayer. We should not openly pray when someone would be offended. Many consider religion somewhat a private matter and we should be sensitive to that. My two-cents. 3spin-grin.gif
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#18
Jan 13, 2016
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#18
dodgingstones said:
Woman at the well... Nicodemus
On and on...
You choose to not accept it doesn't make it so....
Click to expand...
Jesus told them about His death, burial and resurrection? Nope. Nobody was at the cross of Jesus praising God for His shed blood that will take away sin. The disciples thought th3 resurrection was an idle tale.
 
D

dodgingstones

Active member
#19
Nov 20, 2019
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#19
I suggest you take a refresher course on the Gospel of Christ.... just saying
 
J

John146

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#20
Jan 13, 2016
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#20
dodgingstones said:
I suggest you take a refresher course on the Gospel of Christ.... just saying
Click to expand...
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 is the gospel message. Hopefully you were saved by believing this gospel.

1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
 
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