QUESTION! (about Christmas and Easter)
- Thread starter T_Laurich
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What second feast are you referring to and what exactly are you asking about it?
Christs first coming fulfilled the first feast completely, what about the second feast..
Well, let's just look at that passage...
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
You know (I know that you know) this is a direct quote from...
Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
The word for Law in verse 33 is...
H8451
תֹּרָה תּוֹרָה
tôrâh tôrâh
to-raw', to-raw'
From H3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch: - law.
Total KJV occurrences: 219
As far as the Covenant, here is the Old Covenant...
Exo 19:4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself.
Exo 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
Exo 19:6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
Exo 19:7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
Exo 19:8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
The Covenant was the agreement between God and the people. The Law is the terms and conditions of the Covenant. The difference between the Old and New is not the terms and conditions, it is the manner of how the Law is given.
Israel could not obey God because they did not have the heart to...
Deu 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Notice the outcome for obedience? "that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!"
Did Israel keep the covenant?
Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
Did that do away with the terms and conditions?
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
The real problem is addressed here...
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
It must be converted to a spiritual mind.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
thats ok. Your works based gospel has been around since adam first sinned,
You reject the cross. and ths reject Christ. and replace his work with your works. You claim you love the law and are save by it, But reject the idea that the law condemns you where you stand, and forever will..
throwing a bunch of verses around does not prove you point, It makes you sound desperate.
Did it? Is it the case that NO ONE NEEDS the Passover these days? No one needs the sacrifice of Christ these days? God's Feast days are timeless.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Then why do you define it as broken and done away?
If I take two styrofoam cups, one in each hand. Now I fill the one in my right hand full of water and then crush the one in my left hand and toss it into the trash, which one have I filled full? The one I did away with? or the one I added the water (symbol of the Holy Spirit) to?
Would you feel more comfortable discussing this by email away from all the other distractions of this thread?
Romans
14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
V
VioletReigns
Guest
"IT IS FINISHED." Jesus' said.
Translation: finished - teleō
Bring to a close, to end, complete, fulfill, carry out, to pay (of tribute)
Brother, no man can fulfill all the laws to perfection. If you fail one law you are guilty of all. Have you fulfilled every single law even today? Jesus said if you even think a hateful thought toward anyone, you're guilty of murder. When you judge others, you are actually holding yourself to the very laws you judge others with. How about the motive in your heart right now? Ask yourself: Do you want to be right above all else or do you want to humble and submit to Jesus at all costs?
Jesus said, "Come unto me all who labor and are heavy laden and I will give you REST." Jesus did it all. All He wants from you is to believe that He paid the entire cost so you could be free just to follow Him, not laws. Brother, you need to study the book of Romans and find out what the grace of Christ Jesus truly is.
Aw c'mon, doesn't anybody ever actually read Rom 14 in context?
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
What is the gold standard here?
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Now to the meat and potatoes…
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
From Bullingers Companion Bible…
Luke 18:12
twice in the week. The law prescribed only one in the year (Lev_16:29. Num_29:7). By the time of Zec_8:19 there were four yearly fasts. In our Lord's day they were bi-weekly (Monday and Thursday), between Passover and Pentecost; and between the Feast of Tabernacles and the Dedication.
Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
Shambles…
G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549
There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…
G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.
Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.
G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.
Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men? Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…
G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111
Again, we are dealing with food.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.
G
Gandalf
Guest
“Had that first covenant been faultless, there would have been no need to look for a second in its place. [SUP]8[/SUP]But God, finding fault with them, says, 'The days are coming, says the Lord, when I will conclude a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah. [SUP]9[/SUP] It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt; because they did not abide by the terms of that covenant, and I abandoned them, says the Lord.[SUP]10[/SUP] For the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord, is this: I will set my laws in their understanding and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. [SUP]11[/SUP] And they shall not teach one another, saying to brother and fellow-citizen, "Know the Lord!" For all of them shall know me, from small to great; [SUP]12[/SUP] I will be merciful to their wicked deeds, and their sins I will remember no more at all.' [SUP]13[/SUP] By speaking of a new covenant, he has pronounced the first one old; and anything that is growing old and ageing will shortly disappear.”
Sir, I don’t mean to be disrespectful and I don’t want to get into an argument but this is for Israel and Judah and clearly you don’t believe that you are part of Israel so why do you give me verses pertaining a new covenant with Israel? You can actually tear these chapters out of your Bible and leave them on the floor because it has got nothing to do with you… or am I understanding it incorrectly?
I can actually go so far as to tell you that the whole Old Testament was not written for you and only certain parts of the New Testament, as we are clearly not part of Israel? We should also doubt our salvation as Jesus said he only came for the lost sheep of Israel and I wouldn’t dare calling Him a liar.
OK, now explain to me how that does away with the Law. If I cannot keep the Law perfectly, that does away with it?
How do you follow Him, doing what?
I have read the book of Romans many times and when I read the entire book, I find passages that don't get much press...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom_7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom_7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom_7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom_7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
Rom_8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom_8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
Rom_13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
because you deny salvation by faith in christ and teach we must work, endure, finish the race or whatever, to recieve it.
that is not faith in christ, that is faith in self.
D
didymos
Guest
10 years old? Really?
I was 6 when I stopped believing in Sinterklaas (Saint Nicolas).
I read somewhere he died centuries ago and was buried in Bari (Italy),
and came to the conclusion he couldn't exist (anymore).
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basilica_di_San_Nicola
