Correct. Thats why they shall be given Faith to believe in Christ, because He has saved them. By Faith they come into the knowledge and assurance of it
Reconciled to God while enemies !
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T
Thaddeus
Guest
Its considered superior enlightenment/knowledge that others need to understand... "You dont have to have Faith in Christ" is the lie from the pit of hell that you have been pushing on this site for years, brightfame52 ... and rogerg fully supports your erroneous claim.
what a sham!
Pelagian heretics insist man is inherently good. From within the hearts of men come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, wickedness, deceit, debauchery, envy, slander, arrogance, and foolishness. Mark 7 verses 21-22 Every inclination of man's heart is evil from his youth. Genesis 8 verse 21b Who can bring out clean from unclean? No one! Job 14 verse 4 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Matthew 7 verse 18
It's like they are just flat unable to truly comprehend and accept that Christ, and Christ alone, is the sole Savior, and thereby, that man can contribute absolutely nothing whatsoever towards the obtaining of it.
Many conflate having volition and the ability to make choices with having a will that is free, against
all the Scripture verses that speak against, such as man being a slave to sin, blinded by the god of this
world, taken captive to do the will of the devil... there are many others, such as pertain to the incurable
wickedness of man and his inability to change himself, a bad tree not being capable of bring forth good
fruit etc, and of course Scripture should be the determiner of this and not some philosophical construct,
but Scripture gets tossed, ignored, rejected, rewritten, contradicted and outright denied by the free will
crowd who ascribes the the natural man -as a slave to sin and lover of darkness opposed to the Spiritual
things of God refusing to come into the light because he hates the light- what is only true of the spiritual man.
I absolutely agree with you, Magenta. It's so clear in Scripture, yet they are spiritually blind to it, or worse, pervert it.
Well we have certainly seen plenty of their perversions, *such as calling God an unjust tyrannical monster
kidnapping people against their will, and being told He does not act unilaterally (when He does) and that
God is not required at all in the process of anyone coming to believe, this said by the same person who
claims it would be unfair of God to reveal Himself to one person any differently than to another, when the
Bible front to back is full of such instances. One has to wonder if they have read the Bible at all to say such.
*Some have said a lot worse about God than this, but it is truly too disgusting to repeat.
It makes one wonder why they would even desire to be called Christians since they've pretty much forced
Christ into the minor role of a salvation facilitator (if even that), rather than of Christ as Savior being the centerpiece.
Right, it's legal. Reconciled as a result of being in Christ. Foreknown by the Father (OT faith), predestined to be "in Christ" by faith per Romans 8:28-30. It's a predestination from OT faith to NT faith in the Gospel. All that the Father gave Jesus, His sheep, true OT believers, will come to Him and believe. Only in Christ was Abraham saved, Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by Jesus.
Romans 3:25-26 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.
It's faith in Jesus that places us, and Abraham in Christ. This is only good after the death resurrection and ascension, when the ingredients were there for that spiritual union to save us. .
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
Romans 6:3-11 says the same thing. It's the result of being 'placed into' Christ, that we die with Him, and are raised up with Him, born again. Atonement only applies in Christ.
That Spirit baptism, available after Pentecost, is what places a believer in Christ. (1 Corinthians 12:13).
With the Spirit of God in us we have Jesus, and He has us. Without the Spirit of God in us, He doesn't have us, and we don't have Him. And we don't have life. Romans 8:9-11, which also says the same thing as Romans 5:10 with more context.
Also, in the OT, we see even those who had faith in Jesus did not yet have the life (Spirit indwelling), not until Pentecost.
John 7:38-39 He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water." (born again) But this He spoke concerning the Spirit, whom those believing in Him would receive; for the Holy Spirit was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.
It's the same thing John 3 says. When Jesus is lifted up (glorified), the OT believers who died having not receiving the promise of the Father Hebrews 11:39-40) could finally ascend, Abrahams bosom, Paradise, with Jesus. John 3:13-14. And be with the Father, reconciled.
I understand this is time consuming answering all these posts, but please consider what I'm saying as it answers your question head on, and completely, with Scripture.
Dave
According to you, AI merely confirmed your "reformed position" ...
AI's response was tainted by your bias.
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reneweddaybyday said:
quite the contrary ... when a person yields himself or herself to God, he or she remains passive ... does nothing ...
the person stops suppressing the truth in unrighteousness ... stops rejecting ... the person remains passive ... does nothing.
That line of reasoning is only half right ...
in the case of born again believers, the meaning is that they are to yield to God ... do not continue to serve sin (Rom 6:6); and
in the case of natural man, the meaning is that they are to yield to God ... stop suppressing the truth in unrighteousness ... yield to God working to bring about His promise.
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I have explained to you that the words "be ye reconciled" in 2 Corinthians 5:20 mean that the person is to yield to God.
quite the contrary ... when a person yields himself or herself to God, he or she remains passive ... does nothing ...
the person stops suppressing the truth in unrighteousness ... stops rejecting ... the person remains passive ... does nothing.
the verb is second aorist passive imperative and has been explained to you numerous times, and a link to a Blue Letter Bible document explaining the Greek use of the aorist imperative has already been shared with you.
so you're saying that those who are born again believers need to be reconciled to God ... that 2 Corinthians 5:20 is speaking only to born again believers instructing them to be reconciled to God ???
That line of reasoning is only half right ...
in the case of born again believers, the meaning is that they are to yield to God ... do not continue to serve sin (Rom 6:6); and
in the case of natural man, the meaning is that they are to yield to God ... stop suppressing the truth in unrighteousness ... yield to God working to bring about His promise.
The moment a person stops suppressing the truth in unrighteousness, God honors His Word to bring about His promise.
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wow ... out of one side of your mouth you claim ...
Folks the poster isn't being honest here and omitted a key statement
She omitted
So we see the posters sneaky dishonesty
and out of the other side of your mouth you "omitted a key statement from my post" ... you claim all I said was:
the faithful believer speaks God's Word ... that is being "given spiritual life" ..
when what I said was:
the faithful believer speaks God's Word ... that is being "given spiritual life" ... but the life contained in that Word of God does not benefit those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
vs 16-17 - those who do not suppress the truth in unrighteousness receive the promise.
vs 18-19 - those who suppress the truth in unrighteousness do not receive the promise. God shows them but they suppress the truth.
It is God's Word that is life and God's Word will be fulfilled in the one who yields himself or herself ... then God's Word will work in his or her life:
Psalm 119:25 My soul cleaveth unto the dust: quicken [make alive] thou me according to thy word.
Psalm 119:50 This is my comfort in my affliction: for thy word hath quickened [make alive] me.
Psalm 119:93 I will never forget thy precepts: for with them thou hast quickened [make alive] me.
Psalm 119:105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
Psalm 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.
Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick [life giving], and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
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Don't go to Romans 5:10 to explain what is written in Romans 1:18.
2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
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and you would be 100% wrong.
Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive
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I understand what they're saying ... I disagree with their reasoning.
I used to think we had something in common ... faith in the Lord Jesus Christ ...
but now with this ridiculous notion that "You dont have to have Faith in Christ" and/or someone does "not have to have faith in Christ to become saved/reconciled"
I realize we may not have anything in common as far as Scripture is concerned.
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T
Thaddeus
Guest
On the internet, you often find people who have studied much, and in their zeal, go beyond what is plainly written. They end up contradicting large swathes of it, but feel they have gained an understanding most do not have. You can make the bible say pretty much what you want if you try hard enough. You can theologise to overturn the plainly written word.
I often think, the average pew sitter, who has studied nowhere near as much as many on the internet, has far less error than they do when it comes to scripture.
They were in Christ before the foundation by election, but the legal reconciliation for them is when He died, cant you read ? According to Rom 5:10 how were they reconciled to God ?
10 ;For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
False, election is, but that's the eternal phase of Salvation which is a different subject altogether
These points are rabbit trail distractions
Its not about yielding in 2 Cor 5:20 its embracing the word of reconciliation that's being preached to them. They are being established or confirmed in the truth. These people are already reconciled, already Saints Paul addressed them as so here 2 Cor 1
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
2 Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
A preacher doesnt give Spiritual life, this is another distraction and rabbit trail, and you were dishonest, and you have been throughout all of our discussions over the years.