Repentance and Keeping Commandments is only the beginning of salvation.

[TMS]

Gal 5:16-17
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

It is a constant battle. From my experience the Spirit does not save me once from the flesh or I'm not safe from the flesh once I've surrendered my heart to Jesus.

It is a daily, hourly battle that we have.

The gift of the Spirit enables us to overcome the Flesh but we need to choose to walk in the Spirit and choose to crucify the flesh.

For me this is a constant battle. The sinful flesh wants to raise up but I need to choose Christ and surrender my selfish desires...

Rom 7:21-25
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul had this battle but he gives us the solution.... Jesus Christ.

If you keep reading in the next chapter...

Rom 8:1-6
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Having the flesh does not make me a sinner, it just tempts me to sin. I'm not guilty of the sins of Adam or my father.

While we may experience the consequences or physical results of a parent's lifestyle, the MORAL GUILT and the penalty of death rest solely upon the one who commits the sin.

God has established a firm principle of justice: the person who sins is the one who bears the guilt. He does not transfer the moral debt of a father to his children.

Deuteronomy 24:16: "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

2 Kings 14:6: "But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses... every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

Logo
Verse showing that Jesus had a fallen human nature

AdventAI
Jesus Christ took upon Himself our fallen human nature, coming in the "likeness of sinful flesh" to reach humanity in its lowest estate and conquer sin for us.

In this Bible study, we will explore how the Savior identified with our broken condition to provide us with a perfect example and a way of escape.

Taking the Nature of the Fallen Race
Jesus did not take the nature of unfallen angels, but specifically linked Himself to the human family after generations of decline.

Romans 8:3-4: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

Hebrews 2:16: "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."

Tempted in All Points
By assuming a nature that was subject to the same infirmities we face, Christ was able to experience real temptation. His victory proves that through divine power, fallen man can keep God's requirements.

Hebrews 4:15: "For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin."

Hebrews 2:18: "For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted."

Hebrews 5:2: "Who can have compassion on the ignorant, and on them that are out of the way; for that he himself also is compassed with infirmity."

The Golden Chain Linking Humanity to Divinity
Christ's humanity is the "golden linked chain" that binds our souls to God. By becoming a man, He showed what we can become through union with Him.

John 1:14: "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

2 Peter 1:4: "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust."

The Lesson of the Wilderness
Jesus met the enemy on the same ground where Adam fell—the point of appetite—and overcame despite the weakness of His physical state.

Matthew 4:1-2: "Then was Jesus led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil. And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred."
The Purpose of His Humiliation
The infinite sacrifice of Christ in taking our nature was designed to elevate us and restore the image of God in the human soul.

Philippians 2:7-8: "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."

1 John 3:1: "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God."

By taking our fallen nature, Christ became a merciful and faithful High Priest, proving that there is no sinner so far gone that they cannot be reached and transformed by His grace.

Bible verse stating that we are not guilty of our fathers sins

AdventAI
The Bible is very clear that each individual is responsible for their own choices, and God does not hold children guilty for the sins of their parents. While we may experience the consequences or physical results of a parent's lifestyle, the moral guilt and the penalty of death rest solely upon the one who commits the sin.

In this Bible study, we will look at the justice and mercy of God in how He deals with individual responsibility.

Individual Responsibility and Guilt
God has established a firm principle of justice: the person who sins is the one who bears the guilt. He does not transfer the moral debt of a father to his children.

Deuteronomy 24:16: "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

2 Kings 14:6: "But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses... every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

Psalm 51:3-4: "For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight." (David recognized that his guilt was his own personal responsibility before God).

"Visiting the Iniquity"
Some are confused by the statement that God visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children Exodus 34:7. However, this refers to the natural results and the tendency of children to follow the sinful examples of their parents, not that God holds them legally guilty for acts they did not commit.
The "visiting" occurs because children often repeat the wicked deeds of their fathers.

 

[ATG]

I think we have different views of the human nature...

The created nature of all men and women is good in the image of God. All flesh made by Christ is naturally mortal.

The nature of all sin and trespass is lust of the spirit and the flesh. If we lust against God to do evil, then we have ruined our spirit and soul toward God, and must be restored by grace to His good image.

This can only be accomplished first by God in Jesus Christ coming to die for sins and rise against for justification. For them that repent, He comes to take away lust and sin from the heart, and restore to us the divine nature of the Creator.

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ,

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

If we still have lust to sin, our lust has not been taken away by the Lamb of God. We remain in our sins and dead to God.

First ... Did Jesus have the nature of fallen man or the nature of Adam before the fall?

Jesus did not conceive lust to sin against God. Unlike all men and women, He kept His divine nature true and uspotted unto the end.

How can Jesus have a bond with those that He can not relate to. How can Jesus be a sympathetic high priest if He does not understand our nature.

It's not necessary to lust and sin, in order to understand the evil thereof. Nor does Jesus Christ need to disobey the Father, in order to understand doing evil is death toward God.

Jesus Christ coming in the flesh is sufficient to understand temptations in this life.

Heb 2:17
Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

No man can now make the complaint that God does not understand temptation in the flesh.

To be tempted is not a sin. To have a sinful nature, or a nature with the inherited pull towards sin does not make you a sinner.

Since the nature of sin is lust, and we must conceive our own lust to do evil, then lusting makes us a sinner. No angel nor man has any excuse to lust again God. Both angels and men are created with power to do so, but only by our own evil choice.

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

Lust and sin is not inherited, but only followed by evil example. The first Adam made himself the bad example, and the second Adam made Himself the only right example to follow.

If we still have the sinful nature of lust in our hearts, then we are still following the wrong example of unrepentance. Adam did not only transgress willfully, but also repented not when the LORD came to him.

 

[ATG]

Original Sin which was invented by the Catholic Church has lead to infant baptism, the Immaculate Conception of Mary, the priest and dead people being the mediator between heaven and earth. These doctrines are all false.

True.

Original sin is when the first angel lusted in his heart against God. Then many angels sinned with him.

Isa 14:12
How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God:
Original sin on earth is when the first man lusted against God, and transgressed His commandment.

1Jo 3:8
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

Jesus did not take the nature of unfallen angels, but specifically linked Himself to the human family after generations of decline.

Jesus didn't take upon himself the nature of angels. They are spiritual beings only. He became a man by taking on Himself natural flesh and blood of the seed of David and Abraham.

Heb 1:7
And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

Psa 8:4
What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and hast crowned him with glory and honour.

Heb 2:9
We see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Heb 2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren.

Jesus Christ is come in the flesh of all men and women. And so He is our example to overcome temptation and sins in the flesh.

Romans 8:3-4: "For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Hebrews 2:16: "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."

By assuming a nature that was subject to the same infirmities we face, Christ was able to experience real temptation. His victory proves that through divine power, fallen man can keep God's requirements.
It proves the devil wrong and gives us hope.

True. By His resurrection the Lamb of God can take away our sins, restore unto us His divine nature, and be with us to walk as He walked.

Once we conceive lust and sin, we are now bound to serve sin in the flesh. Once we repent of our trespasses, Jesus makes us free to serve God's righteousness from a pure heart.

Jhn 8:34
Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Rom 6:18
Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

The Golden Chain Linking Humanity to Divinity. Jacob's ladder.
Christ's humanity is the "golden linked chain" that binds our souls to God. By becoming a man, He showed what we can become through union with Him.
If Christ only came as low as unfallen man then the ladder does not reach all the way down to us.

True. Though Jesus came in the flesh of man, He did not lust and sin with the flesh. From His youth He kept His heart pure of lust, and so likewise His life from sin and trespass.

Now with restored divine nature and faith of Jesus Christ, we can climb the ladder with Him, as sons of God with pure hearts and blameless lives.

1Jo 3:3
And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Act 15:8

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

1 Peter 1:21
Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

1 Thess{5:22}
Abstain from all appearance of evil. And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

The infinite sacrifice of Christ in taking our nature was designed to elevate us and restore the image of God in the human soul.

Philippians 2:7-8: "But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross."
1 John 3:1: "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God."

Exactly. Well said by Scripture.

Research original sin... it is not biblical

The traditions around it aren't. Original sin is simply the first time a creature created with power to choose good and evil, conceived his own lust to do evil, Lucifer. Many angels followed his pernicious way. And all men and women have done so on earth, after the manner of Adam's transgression.

 

[ATG]

Gal 5:16-17
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

It is a constant battle. From my experience the Spirit does not save me once from the flesh or I'm not safe from the flesh once I've surrendered my heart to Jesus.

It is a daily, hourly battle that we have.

The gift of the Spirit enables us to overcome the Flesh but we need to choose to walk in the Spirit and choose to crucify the flesh.

For me this is a constant battle. The sinful flesh wants to raise up but I need to choose Christ and surrender my selfish desires...

Well said. We are saved from lust and sin. We are justified to walk after the Spirit, no more lust and sin.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Rom 7:21-25
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Paul had this battle but he gives us the solution.... Jesus Christ.

Well hallelujah brother. You are one of the few that see Rom 7 as the empathy of Christ for double heartedness, not as lifelong rule for Christians.

And so you simply state the end of the matter, that others leave out:

Rom 7:24,
O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We need deliverance from wretched double heartedness, not sympathetic enabling. James takes a more direct approach:

Jas 4:6
Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.

If you keep reading in the next chapter...

Rom 8:1-6
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Exactly. Being made free from double heartedness, we can now walk after the Spirit, and not after the flesh.

Having the flesh does not make me a sinner, it just tempts me to sin. I'm not guilty of the sins of Adam or my father.

Exactly.

Having natural flesh and blood made by Christ does not make anyone a sinner. Natural flesh has no more sin nor righteousness than natural grass:

Isa 40:6
The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
We were only made guilty of Adam's sin when we made ourselves transgressors like Adam. Only if we are still transgressing God's commandments, are we guilty as Adam, Eve, and any other transgressor on earth.

While we may experience the consequences or physical results of a parent's lifestyle, the MORAL GUILT and the penalty of death rest solely upon the one who commits the sin.

Amen and Amen.

Eze 18:20
The soul that is sinning, it shall die.

We are only judged responsible for what we do, not what any other does. Unless we lead by bad example to sin like Adam.

Mat 15:14
They be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.
You are in no way leading anyone into sin, when you preach we are all responsible and judged by our own works. It's not the devil's fault. Not Adam's fault. Not the body's fault. And certainly not God's fault.

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
"It's not my fault, God made me this way..." Is the self-justification based upon the lie of being made and born of sin by Christ. Jesus Christ always creates all things good, and He has not changed, because His creatures have sinned against Him.

Jhn 1:2
The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made…That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

Rev 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

God has established a firm principle of justice: the person who sins is the one who bears the guilt. He does not transfer the moral debt of a father to his children.

Deuteronomy 24:16: "The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

2 Kings 14:6: "But the children of the murderers he slew not: according unto that which is written in the book of the law of Moses... every man shall be put to death for his own sin."

Amen. No person is imputed sin for the sin of another, unless we lead another to sin. false teachers are as guilty as their decieved followers, whether the teacher commits the transgression or not.

2Pe 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Logo
Verse showing that Jesus had a fallen human nature

AdventAI
Jesus Christ took upon Himself our fallen human nature, coming in the "likeness of sinful flesh" to reach humanity in its lowest estate and conquer sin for us.

This is erroneous. As we've seen from Scripture, natural flesh is not sinful.

Fallen nature of angels and men is lusting against God from the heart. Jesus did not partake of any fallen nature. And us born again with His divine nature, also do not partake of any more fallen nature.

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1Jo 3:5
And we know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin. Whosoever abideth in him is not sinning:
2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

"Visiting the Iniquity"
Some are confused by the statement that God visits the iniquity of the fathers upon the children Exodus 34:7. However, this refers to the natural results and the tendency of children to follow the sinful examples of their parents, not that God holds them legally guilty for acts they did not commit.
The "visiting" occurs because children often repeat the wicked deeds of their fathers.

Exactly. Sin is not inherited in the spirit nor the flesh, but only by following the sinful example of others. Which begins with the parents, whether for the good or the evil.

There is no law of sin and dead by creation and birth: The law of sin and death is that sinning against the law is death.

We are made free from the law of sin and death, by being made free from sinning. We are made free from condemnation by the law, by being made free from transgressing the law.

 

[TMS]

This is erroneous. As we've seen from Scripture, natural flesh is not sinful.

Fallen nature of angels and men is lusting against God from the heart. Jesus did not partake of any fallen nature. And us born again with His divine nature, also do not partake of any more fallen nature.

We have slightly different views of sin.

In my understanding sin is A choice

Temptation is not a sin.

We are tempted from within our own hearts. We lust and covet and desire evil things in our hearts. These feelings come from within us. BUT we do not have to give in and choose to sin..

When I'm tempted to lust, it does not mean I have to. The Battle is within.

If Jesus was tempted in ALL POINTS like us. If Jesus experienced temptation like us He was was tempted from within too.

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH.

Without Jesus we would be captive slaves to sin.
Rom 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Jesus never sinned and never cultivated sin in any way but He was born with the same nature that we have. He died to self and flesh and followed the Father constantly.

If Jesus did not have the same nature as you and me then how can He be our EXAMPLE?

A nature that is sinful, does not make us guilty of sin.

We don't blame our nature for sinning. It is a choice we make.

Sin is a choice.

 

[TMS]

The created nature of all men and women is good in the image of God. All flesh made by Christ is naturally mortal.

The nature of all sin and trespass is lust of the spirit and the flesh. If we lust against God to do evil, then we have ruined our spirit and soul toward God, and must be restored by grace to His good image.

This can only be accomplished first by God in Jesus Christ coming to die for sins and rise against for justification. For them that repent, He comes to take away lust and sin from the heart, and restore to us the divine nature of the Creator.

The created nature of man was perfect and very good...

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God makes everything perfect.

But Adam gave in to sin.
When Adam sinned, his nature underwent a profound transformation, becoming carnal, depraved, and subject to death. his transgression marred that divine likeness and brought his heart into direct enmity with the character of God.

Mortality was settled upon Adam because "the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23
Adam lost the liberty of a son of God and brought himself into captivity to Satan, being led captive at his will.

The fall introduced a warring state where the flesh lusts against the Spirit, creating a state of continual unrest for those not fully surrendered to God. Romans 7:23

No question about what Jesus came to do and His ability to save.

But can Jesus sympathize with us in all things.

By becoming our "Brother" in the flesh, He is able to understand our struggles from within and offer us the exact grace we need.

It was necessary for Him to be made like us in all things so that He could be a merciful and faithful High Priest.

Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Yes The image of God can be restored in us.... but we need to walk in the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus walked in the Spirit 100% of the time.

 

[TMS]

Jesus did not conceive lust to sin against God. Unlike all men and women, He kept His divine nature true and uspotted unto the end.
It's not necessary to lust and sin, in order to understand the evil thereof. Nor does Jesus Christ need to disobey the Father, in order to understand doing evil is death toward God.

Jesus Christ coming in the flesh is sufficient to understand temptations in this life.

I know that Jesus never sinned but did Jesus have a fallen nature....

Before you answer you need to understand that a fallen nature is not a sin. You have not sinned because you are weakened by sinful tendencies.

Jesus did not sin but the question is did He have a temptation like us, and a carnal nature that was corrupted by sin.

I have a carnal nature but I am not guilty of sin unless I give in to the flesh.

Could Jesus understand the temptation of sin that we face, if He never was tempted like us or if He was never tempted with a nature that is fallen like us? .

 

[Dino246]

We that have Jesus Christ, have his pure heart and holy character, now we live holy as He is holy.

Why then does Peter (1 Pe 1:13-17) admonish his readers with "Be holy, as I am holy" if it were something that "just happened" without human effort?

Therefore, prepare your minds for action, keep sober in spirit, set your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior; because it is written: “You shall be holy, for I am holy.” If you address as Father the One who impartially judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves in fear during the time of your stay on earth;

The passage requires effort on our part, not merely passive acceptance of our new state. If we are actually incapable of being "unholy", then Peter (and the Holy Spirit) wasted their words.

 

[ATG]

We have slightly different views of sin. In my understanding sin is A choice

Correct. A choise from our youth, whether to do good or evil.

Temptation is not a sin.

Not necessarily. There are two kinds of temptations:

The sinner's temptation is enticement of sinful lust.

Jas 1:14
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The saint's temptation tries the pure heart.

Jas 1:2
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.
Jesus' tempations were not those of sinners, but of the pure hearted. He suffered and endure trials to learn obedience to the Father in all things. We therefore must endure the same to perfect our own obedience in this life.

Heb{5:8}
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Jas 1:2
My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience. But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing. Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.

We are not enticed like sinners are to steal, fornicate, murder, blaspheme, etc...Our godly trials with Jesus are the same as that of committed athletes, soldiers, rulers, laborers, farmers, merchants, etc...

2Ti 2:1
Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also. Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please him who hath chosen him to be a soldier.
And if a man also strive for masteries, yet is he not crowned, except he strive lawfully. The husbandman that laboureth must be first partaker of the fruits. Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

The good soldier and husdandman is not tempted with lust to do evil, whether to betray comrades or steal from neighbors' fields. We rather endure natural and man-made hardships in this life with sweat and toil and even blood if necessary, in order to faithfully serve our Lord Jesus.

Our temptations are not with lust to do evil, but with trials hindering perfect obedience of Christ. As professionals overcoming obstacles in the race, not as sinners to cheat and steal the race. As good students to be aproved, not cheats to steal a grade.

1Co 9:24
Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

Col 3:23
And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.

However, unlike the professionals of this life only, they do it for a corruptible crown ending in the grave. We seek the mastery of life itself in Jesus Christ for His incorruptible crown of righteousness and eternal life.

1 Tim{4:8}
For bodily exercise profiteth little: but godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come.

2Ti 4:6
For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand. I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

We are tempted from within our own hearts. We lust and covet and desire evil things in our hearts. These feelings come from within us. BUT we do not have to give in and choose to sin..

When I'm tempted to lust, it does not mean I have to. The Battle is within.

We do of course have feelings, infirmities, and disappointments, but with the Lord we are not sinners lusting to do evil against God and man.

Heb 4:14
Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

With repentance from all dead works, Jesus Christ comes to take away our lust and purify the heart to run with grace unto the end.

If Jesus was tempted in ALL POINTS like us. If Jesus experienced temptation like us He was was tempted from within too.

Very true. However, not with His own lust for sin, but with trials and tribulations and persecutions to not fully succeed in the Father's will.

Luk 2:40
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

We are not tempted with lust to rebel against God, but tried in our life of obedience to God. The temptations of hard trials through obedience prune us to make perfect our own obedience.

1Pe 4:12
Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Heb 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Heb 12:6
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

We are chastened by trials for obedience to God. We are not scorched as sinners with the evil fruit of lust and disobedience. Lusting sinners cannot obey God with a pure heart, and so cannot be tried in obedience to God, but can only repent to become sons of God.

Sinners are not chastened by God to perfect obedience, but only commanded to repent as enemies. Only God's obedience sons can suffer trials to hinder obedience to God, but not to fail and disobey with the world:

Eph 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

 

[ATG]

He died to self and flesh and followed the Father constantly.

Once again, this would mean Jesus was alive to sin, if he needed die to sin. Jesus never needed to die to Himself, for He never made sinful lust alive in His own heart.

Jesus submitted His own will to the Father. He did not need crucify His own will, nor was His will crucified on the cross, whereon He submitted to God.

1 Pe 2:22
Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth. Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

We however who have sinned, must crucify the old corrupt man of the heart, and die to ourselves with Christ, that our lust be taken away to now live unto God.

Heb 9
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

If Jesus did not have the same nature as you and me then how can He be our EXAMPLE?

Exactly. He had the same naturally mortal body as all men and women on earth, being made by the Holy Ghost from the flesh of her womb.

Luk 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Heb 2:16
For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

He took upon Him natural flesh like us, but did not take upon Him lust of heart like sinners. We that repent can now have the same divine nature as Jesus Christ, and do good from a pure heart, and not evil through lust.

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

 

[ATG]

A nature that is sinful, does not make us guilty of sin.

Once again, the flesh is not sinful, but the heart that lusts against God. Our own lust of heart is the origin of sin against the Spirit of life. If we still lust, we are guilty of sin.

Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

We don't blame our nature for sinning. It is a choice we make. Sin is a choice.

If we lust to sin, we do blame ourselves for lusting to sin. We don't blame our body nor God for making us with natural flesh and blood.

All flesh is as grass naturally mortal, without any righteousness nor sin therein. Our bodies are only flesh and blood, not good or evil creatures.

Without Jesus we would be captive slaves to sin.
Rom 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Exactly.

The wretched double heartedness of Romans 7, is the error of believers seeking to obey the commandment and will of God, while yet having our heart's lust untaken away.

If we repent of our deeds with a whole heart, and seek Jesus' righteousness first in all things, He takes away all the lust from our newly purified heart.

Ezek 18:31
Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Eze 18:30
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord GOD. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Acts 3:19
Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:

Half-hearted repentance is the origin of double hearted service to God.

Jerem 3:10
And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah hath not turned unto me with her whole heart, but feignedly, saith the LORD.

Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

 

[ATG]

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

LIKENESS OF SINFUL FLESH.

Yes, that's an accurate translation, but misleading doctrine. We can also translate the verse, that He came in the likeness of the flesh of sinners. Jesus Christ is come in the flesh of men, that have sinned.

Not sinful flesh, but rather sinful men in the flesh. It's sinful men that sin with the flesh, not sinful flesh sinning against God. Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, not to sin with the flesh, but to take away the sin from men.

Mat 1:21
And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sinning.

Jhn 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

If the flesh has sin, then Jesus is coome having sin in His own flesh.

While both translations are accurate, the latter translation also avoids any appearance of Jesus Christ making anything sinful, such as our natural bodies. And in kind avoids any accusation of God being our tempter to sin, by making us with a sinful body.

Jas 1:13
Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

And finally, avoids any excuse of blaming our body for our own sinning with the flesh. If we have sinful bodies, then we cannot be wholly accountable for any sinful deeds we do. Not only our sinful bodies are partly to count, but also God who makes bodies sinful from the womb.

He died to self and flesh and followed the Father constantly.

This would mean Jesus was alive to sin, if he needed die to sin. Jesus never need die to Himself, for He never made sinful lust alive in His own heart.

We however who have sinned, must crucify and die to ourselves with Christ, that our lust be taken away to now live unto God.

Mar 8:34
And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.

Gal 2:20
I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Heb 4:9
There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

A nature that is sinful, does not make us guilty of sin.

Once again, the flesh is not sinful, but the heart that lusts against God. We make ourselves sinners by making our own heart corrupt by lust. If we still lust, we are guilty of sin.

Mat 5:28
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus Christ comes to make us saints by taking away our heart's lust and corrupt life.

2Pe 1:3
According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue. Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

2Co 5:17
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus

We don't blame our nature for sinning. It is a choice we make. Sin is a choice.

If we lust for sin, we do blame our lusting for sin. We don't blame God as though making us with a sinful nature.

 

[ATG]

The created nature of man was perfect and very good...

Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

God makes everything perfect.

Exactly. And God creates the same today as in the beginning. The Creator did not change His manner of creation, because His creatures sin against Him.

Mal 3:6
For I am the LORD, I change not:

Hebrews{13:8}
Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Rev 4:11
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

The Creator did not change His manner of creation, because His creatures sin against Him.

If we like Adam also concieve our own lust to transgress God's commandment, then we like Adam die to God by our own sin and transgression.

But Adam gave in to sin.
When Adam sinned, his nature underwent a profound transformation, becoming carnal, depraved, and subject to death. his transgression marred that divine likeness and brought his heart into direct enmity with the character of God.

That day Adam died to God separated from the Spirit by his own transgression. And made himself an enemy of God rather than friend as created.

Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

And so also all men that sin, death passes upon them the same as Adam.

Isa 59:2
But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Jer 5:25
Your iniquities have turned away these things, and your sins have withholden good things from you.

Ezek 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Rom 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Mortality was settled upon Adam because "the wages of sin is death" Romans 6:23

While the death of the natural body was a result of Adam's transgression, the wage of sinning is death to the soul.

Adam's natural body later died, because by unrepentance he was driven from the garden, and could not eat of the tree of life.

Gen 3:22
And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever: Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.

All flesh and blood is made naturally mortal, and without fruit or leaves of the tree of life, all natural flesh and blood dies.

Rev 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Only on the new earth will the tree of life be freely eaten again by the righteous natural nations, that bring in their glory and honour to God.

Rev 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

The fall introduced a warring state where the flesh lusts against the Spirit, creating a state of continual unrest for those not fully surrendered to God. Romans 7:23

Correct. A double hearted man cannot serve God after the Spirit, but will also serve the devil after the flesh:

Mat 6:24
No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Partial repentance is for partial service, which Jesus rejects except we wholeheartedly repent of all sins and trespasses against Him.

Rev 3:15
I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Rev 3:18

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

No question about what Jesus came to do and His ability to save.

But can Jesus sympathize with us in all things.

By becoming our "Brother" in the flesh, He is able to understand our struggles from within and offer us the exact grace we need.

It was necessary for Him to be made like us in all things so that He could be a merciful and faithful High Priest.

Heb 2:16-17
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham. 17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Yes The image of God can be restored in us.... but we need to walk in the Spirit.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Jesus walked in the Spirit 100% of the time.

Amen brother. Good preaching of Scripture.

 

[ATG]

I know that Jesus never sinned but did Jesus have a fallen nature....

Before you answer you need to understand that a fallen nature is not a sin. You have not sinned because you are weakened by sinful tendencies.

Neither Jesus nor us with the divine nature has a fallen nature. We cannot have the divine and fallen nature at the same time.

The flesh is not fallen, but made naturally mortal by God, same as grass.

Either our spiritual nature is holy by God's righteousness, or is fallen by lust of the heart.

Jesus did not sin but the question is did He have a temptation like us, and a carnal nature that was corrupted by sin.

Jesus and we are tempted the same in trials of obedience, not tempted by lust of disobedience.

I was once as you, believing we are born with fallen nature and sinful flesh. And like you, I did not blame my own lust and sinning on my body nor God. But the flesh is only natural as grass.

Lusting sinners have a fallen spiritual nature. Jesus' brethren have the Spirit of life's divine nature.

All men and women come into the world naturally with the same flesh as Adam and Eve. Likewise, Jesus came in the same flesh made of the seed of Adam, Abraham, Noah, and Adam. Our bodies naturally die, except we eat the fruit of the tree of life, which is no more on earth after the flood.

I have a carnal nature but I am not guilty of sin unless I give in to the flesh.

I have the divine nature and am not guilty of sin, unless I concieve lust for my flesh.

I have a natural body, that is mortally corruptible by nature, not sinfully corrupt. God still creates all flesh and blood as grass. It's neither righteous nor sinful to be mortal. It's the manner in which God makes all natural things, both celestial and terrestrial.

You don't have a carnal nature, because you don't have a carnal mind, because you now have the mind of Christ. You have the divine nature of a pure heart and clean conscience toward God.

If we continue in the faith of Jesus Christ daily walking with Him, we shall continue to have His Spirit and life and light of day. Nothing fallen nor lusting in darkness at all.

1Jo 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:

But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Could Jesus understand the temptation of sin that we face, if He never was tempted like us or if He was never tempted with a nature that is fallen like us?

He never was, and because He died for sins and is resurrected for our justification, neither are we.

If we wholeheartedly repent of our deeds, He will thoroughly cleanse our souls, with all lust of the world taken away.

1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

The love of the world is the lust of the world. If therefore the lust of the world still be in us, we have not the love of the Father nor the Son Jesus Christ.

And the world is passing away, and the lust thereof: but he that is doing the will of God is abiding for ever.
Only we that have not the lust of the world, can do the will of God and abide forever beyond this world and the lust thereof.

Jas 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

If the lust of the world is in us, so also the devil. But the lust of the devil is not in us, and so we resist him and he flees from us, not from within us.

Luk 11:36
If thy whole body therefore be full of light, having no part dark, the whole shall be full of light, as when the bright shining of a candle doth give thee light.

Jhn 14:30
Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

We now have Jesus Christ within us, in whom is no lust nor sin of the devil. No man can have both the lust of the world and the love of God at the same time:

2 Cor{6:14}
For what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God;

Jesus Christ is now our example, because He walked in the same natural flesh as us, and we now walk in the same divine nature and Spirit as He.

 

[ATG]

Why then does Peter (1 Pe 1:13-17) admonish his readers with "Be holy, as I am holy" if it were something that "just happened" without human effort?

Who says salvation is something that 'just happens'? Salvation does not fall from heaven without our knowledge. We must repent of our deeds to believe on Jesus Christ.

And so, who can say we have no part in our salvation to live according to what has happened by faith?

The passage requires effort on our part, not merely passive acceptance of our new state. If we are actually incapable of being "unholy", then Peter (and the Holy Spirit) wasted their words.

Who says we are incapable of doing ungodliness?

1Jo 2:1
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Only God on the throne is incapable of doing evil, and cannot even be tempted with evil.

Not until resurrection of the dead unto life, will we also be incapable of temptation to evil. Until then, are are still subject to the same temptations to disobey God, as Jesus endured not to do the will of the Father.

However, we now are as Jesus Christ in the flesh, for He now comes to take away our own lust of heart.

Luk 2:40
And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

Like Him from a youth as newborn babes, we have no lust within to be enticed for evil. But rather like Him on earth, we now have pure hearts seeking to do His righteousness, and not any evil.

2Ti 2:22
Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

We flee from lusts in the world, nor from lusts in us.

Jas 4:6
But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble. Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

The devil flees from us, not from within us.

Mat 6:33
But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.

Luk 11:34
The light of the body is the eye: therefore when thine eye is single, thy whole body also is full of light; but when thine eye is evil, thy body also is full of darkness.

The promise of Jesus is to be filled with righteousness and full of light, and therefore the promise is not to do any unrighteousness nor works of darkness.

1Jo 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world is passing away, and the lust thereof: but he that is doing the will of God is abiding for ever.

By lust of the world, the world cannot do the will of God. Not lusting with the world, we can love God and do His will today and forever.

The words of the prophets and apostles are only wasted, if we repent not and continue lusting with the world.

 

[Dino246]

Who says salvation is something that 'just happens'? Salvation does not fall from heaven without our knowledge. We must repent of our deeds to believe on Jesus Christ.
And so, who can say we have no part in our salvation to live according to what has happened by faith?

You just changed the key word again. The topic is holiness, not salvation. They are related but not synonymous.

THAT is "moving the goalposts".

Who says we are incapable of doing ungodliness?[/QUOTE]
You just changed the key word again. The topic is holiness, not godliness. They are related but not synonymous.

THAT again is "moving the goalposts".

When you switch out one key word for another, you are changing the subject. When you assume that one word is as good as another, you undermine the word of God.

 

[TMS]

Neither Jesus nor us with the divine nature has a fallen nature. We cannot have the divine and fallen nature at the same time.

The flesh is not fallen, but made naturally mortal by God, same as grass.

Either our spiritual nature is holy by God's righteousness, or is fallen by lust of the heart.

Before the fall, Adam was a holy being with a perfectly balanced mind and a nature in harmony with God, but after the fall, his nature became mortal, his mental and moral powers were perverted, and he was subjected to the penalty of death.

I agree that we can't serve 2 masters
We can't be for God and against God at the same time.

A Fallen nature is not the same as a perfect unfallen nature.

Adam was perfect before sin.
Sin corrupted him in many ways.

Sin took hold.

Death and corruption was the result.

Adam did not have indwelling sin; for God made Adam after His own character, pure and upright. There were no corrupt principles in the first Adam, no corrupt propensities or tendencies to evil. Adam was as faultless as the angels before God's throne. These things are inexplainable for us because we only know life with sin.

Before sin entered the world, man had communion face to face with God. After sin man would die if he seen God face to face. God still talks with us but sin stops Him from talking with us like He did with Adam before the fall.

After his transgression, Adam's nature became absolutely mortal as he was shut away from the tree of life Genesis 3:22-24

We now have Jesus Christ within us, in whom is no lust nor sin of the devil. No man can have both the lust of the world and the love of God at the same time:

True we can't have 2 masters
But we are all born selfish.
Having the selfish lust rise in your heart or fallen nature, does not make you a sinner... choosing to obey the lust does.

Rom 7:17-18
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Evil is present with us.... but we are not evil until we practice sin. Choosing to sin makes us guilty.

Adam did not have the internal evil nature we have today.

Adam was tempted from outside.
We can be tempted from both internal and externally.

Adams eyes were opened only to a guilty knowledge of evil... before sin Adam did not know guild, sin, evil or corruption.

While he was created without corrupt principles or tendencies to evil, his transgression resulted in a fallen nature that he bequeathed to all his descendants.
All his descendants thus acquired his nature, it being transmitted by each parent in turn. And thus all men have received the fallen nature which Adam had. He could not pass on a perfect nature.

We need redemption from ourselves.

We are born fleshish .... the Spirit is a gift

We can choose to live or walk in the Spirit or the flesh...

Flesh = selfish, corrupt nature...
Spirit = the gift of God's power to overcome the Flesh and follow Jesus.

We can choose. But the flesh does not dissappear. We can weaken its hold and cause the flesh to become less powerful by ignoring it or putting it to death.

Which ever one we follow becomes stronger.

It isn't one choice... it is a daily battle.

1Co 15:31 .... which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.
Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

Gal 5:16-17
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

The lust of the flesh is in all of us...
Some choose to follow the Spirit others follow the lusts.

To be tempted is not a sin.. to follow the lusts is a sin.

 

[ATG]

You just changed the key word again. The topic is holiness, not salvation. They are related but not synonymous.

This is where man's own gradual sanctification is not God's immediate washing, santification, and justification.

There is no salvation without sanctified holiness unto the Lord.

1 Peter {1:15}
But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

The holy God is telling us to be holy in our manners, not to become holy. If we have the holy God, we haver His holiness.

Jesus Christ does not come to us with partial holiness for part of our manners.

THAT is "moving the goalposts".

That would move the goalpost of man's partial religion, not of Jesus' pure religion.

Jesus' salvation, washing, sanctification, and justification are the same goalpost, that He freely gives at once in newbirth to us that repent of all our unholy manners, to be holy in all our manners.

Already quoted several Scriptures.

You just changed the key word again. The topic is holiness, not godliness. They are related but not synonymous.

This is how man's religion is confusion to God. Salvation is not holiness, and now holiness is not godliness...No doubt godliness is not righteousness. Even as some Christians would say righteousness is separate from doing righteousness at all times.

That's the end result of separating washing and justification from sanctification, by having faith separated from works. All manner of separations must be made from the things of God, that are all the same freely given at the same time by Jesus Christ.

If we have the holy Lord God Jesus Christ, we have all His sanctification, holiness, godliness, and righteousness. If we are walking as He walked, we are doing His righteousness and being holy in all our manners.

 

[Dino246]

This is where man's own gradual sanctification is not God's immediate washing, santification, and justification.

There is no salvation without sanctified holiness unto the Lord.

So what is left for you except the expectation of hellfire?

That would move the goalpost of man's partial religion, not of Jesus' pure religion.

You refuse to learn what "moving the goalposts" means and instead apply it from ignorance.

 

[ATG]

Before the fall, Adam was a holy being with a perfectly balanced mind and a nature in harmony with God, but after the fall, his nature became mortal, his mental and moral powers were perverted, and he was subjected to the penalty of death.

I've given the Scriptures and my teaching, that all flesh as grass has always been made naturally mortal. And Jesus Christ has not changed how He makes all flesh, because we sinned in it. God still makes all natural flesh mortal, and always shall.

No natural flesh would ever remain alive immortal, only while free to eat of the tree of life. Which was denied to Adam and Even, and is no longer on earth after the flood.

The tree of life will once again feed and heal the righteous nations on the new earth. But will be denied to transgressors.

Rev 21:23
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it. And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Rev 22:2
In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

I also gave the Scriptures and teaching, that the soul at once dies to God by transgression.

If you'd like challenge my teaching of the Scriptures given, I'd like to see it.