"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
Does one need rest when he has done nothing?
Repentance Vs Eternal Security
- Thread starter SeaBass
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"Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief."
Does one need rest when he has done nothing?
Yeah...Yanked out of a book and out of context that was written to Hebrew believers who were in error thinking they had to go back under the law to keep their redemption. He saved their souls in Egypt with the striking of the blood and then killed them physically because the rebelled against the word of God and listened to the lies of the ten spies....
What part about being saved and paying a physical price as well as loss of eternal rewards for rebellious behavior don't you comprehend?
Or being cut loose for the destruction of the FLESH so as to learn or to blaspheme in the day of judgment?
Or being a prodigal son who squanders the inheritance by riotous living yet still received as a son?
Or being a child of God with works of wood hay and stubble that get burnt and you suffer LOSS, but are saved yet so as by fire (the skin of your teeth)...LOSS OF REWARDS
Seems simple enough to me...so in essence you are trusting in your works and deeds to get you to heaven? And in 30 years you have not sinned grievously enough to LOOSE your CONDITIONAL SALVATION?
Really? Is this what you are saying...just to be clear.
This is the last time im going to post in this thread if nobody actually takes the time to watch this.
If you REALLY want some information on this doctrine instead of just arguing back and forth and getting nowhere, just watch this:
[video=youtube;PVJV6zsEJvY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVJV6zsEJvY[/video]
It wont take more then 20 minutes. Im sure you have 20 minutes to spare instead of just debating back and forth with little progress =_=. Besides, I used to think "once saved always saved" was true until I watched that video.
If you REALLY want some information on this doctrine instead of just arguing back and forth and getting nowhere, just watch this:
[video=youtube;PVJV6zsEJvY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVJV6zsEJvY[/video]
It wont take more then 20 minutes. Im sure you have 20 minutes to spare instead of just debating back and forth with little progress =_=. Besides, I used to think "once saved always saved" was true until I watched that video.
If eternal security were true, it would render biblical repentance useless.
Not when you understand the conflict between the spirit which is born of God and does not sin and the body which is sold under sin with the mind as the battle ground for who gets control......as a matter of fact it fits nicely and seems to contradict your logic for why biblical repentance is necessary...
doesn't matter how many videos you post as the bible teaches that whatever God does it is eternal...nothing added and or taken away from it that men should fear him...Ecclesiastes 3:14<---Key word WHATSOEVER
Fleshly Israel was cut off for unbelief in Christ. Spiritual Israel, the church, is what will be saved.
What has that have to do with anything? What you said makes no sense. Im posting a video of a pastor explaining with the Bible how once saved always saved is wrong and not biblical. What has that have to do with your Bible quote?
If you cant understand the correlation between God doing something and it being ETERNAL and you trying to disprove ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED as it is God that SAVES ETERNALLY then how can you even begin to say or post that you know what you are talking about and or why should I or anyone trust the video that you posted on a CHAT site!
Not yanked out of context but there is rest only for those that labor.
The prodigal was dealt with earlier, he was spiritually alive, the spiritually dead, then spiritually alive AGAIN.
The context in 1 Cor 3 is also mis-applied by eternal securists.
In 1 Cor 3 "works" refers to the converts being made to build the church at Corinth. 1 Cor 9:1 Paul refers to the Corinthians as his WORK.
In 1 Cor 3 Paul is making a metaphorical comparison between building a building and build the church. Paul calls the Corinthians God's BUILDING, v9, paul calls himself a master-builder.
Paul begins by explaining when a building is built, one lays the foundation, others build upon that foundation and the building is only strong as the materials used to build, either gold silver precious stones wood hay or stubble.
Metaphorically the church is built like a building. At Corinth Paul laid the foundation by working to make the initial converts. Others came behind Paul at Corinth and work to build upon that foundation by making more converts. And the church is only as strong at the converts, if they have a weak or strong faith.
Then Paul speaks of judgment day "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is."
The "work" here that will be judged are those converts.
"If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward."
If the work/convert of Paul (or another) is judge to be saved, then Paul will receive a reward for that saved work/convert.
"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
But is a work/convert is judged to be lost, then Paul himself will not be lost if he remains faithful (1 Cor 9:27) but Paul will suffer a sense of loss over his lost work/convert.
Example, Paul' work/converts at Galatia had left the gospel (Gal 1) and fallen from grace (Gal 5) Paul said "I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain."
If Paul's work/converts at Galatia end up lost Paul will have a sense of loss, a work in vain over them.
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Christian can forfeit their salvation.
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And we're supposed to read more books ? No thanks, I'll take the bible.
You quoted the video in there about a pastor with a bible in his hand. -_- maybe you should watch the video.
Because what you are saying now does not correlate to what you posted in conjunction to what I said. That is why.
The reason you should trust the video is because it has Bible quotes that proves the calvinistic "once saved always saved" to be wrong, thats why. Its really simple.
On a side note, you claim once saved always saved, right? Then what about Adam... or for example, what about David? Or Saul (who he himself it says in the Bible had the spirit of God in him, and he fell.. so he wasnt always saved) etc. etc.
Or on another note, if once saved always saved, how do you become always saved? Wouldn't we all be eternally dammed according to that logic? Because if once saved always saved and the logic we do nothing but its all up to God, wouldn't that mean we all automatically go to hell? Do you see the problem in the logic of once saved always saved now or do I need to explain it further?
Or you can make it easy and just watch the video so I dont have to argue. If you are indeed correct, then watching the video shouldn't do you any harm right? Because if you are right, and you watch the video, then you can just prove the video wrong right? So why dont you watch the video...
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then it should be obvious to you as to the flaws on Once Saved Always Saved. If not, should I reiterate some of the points the pastor made so the people who have not seen it can understand what I mean?
Basically one point I would like to adress is rape. Forced love = rape. God does not rape us, he lets us choose to serve him or mammon. Why would the Bible say to choose to either server God or mammon if he decides who gets saved and who doesn't.
Also God gave us free will. He will give us the will to be on his side or not be on his side once there. And on that note, if Once Saved ALways Saved was true, there wouldnt be any fallen angels because they would always be with God and not have rebelled, right? Doesn't it make sense when you look at it from that perspective?
Salvation for the Christian is CONDITIONAL upon one thing - faith.
For by grace are ye saved through faith and that not of yourselves: it (salvation) is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS lest any man boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We are saved through faith in Jesus Christ and that salvation is a gift of God. Our good works come from God working within us to will and to do of his good pleasure and he will continue to complete that work until Christ's return. Until then we fight in a battle - our flesh wars against the Spirit.
Well now I am confused,
So this is what you were aiming on?
That there is no possibility of salvation certainty?
Well, that means, that I was here on a wrong side.
I have salvation certainty, yes, I believe that we still have to repent and fight,
but I don’t think that my heart is a dovecot from which Jesus arrives and departs by whether I sin or not.
Although I believe that I can lose my connection (not salvation) with Him b cause of my sin and I can make sadden the Holy Spirit who is very sensitive to sin, but I can repent and He will forgive me, He will not leave me.
I believe that it’s my duty (very bad word for what I actually mean, but I am too lazy to look up better one) to washed my clothes as it is written in revel.
Blessed are those who wash their robes so they can have access to the tree of life and can enter into the city by the gates.
Or KJV
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
I wouldnt say, that human can somehow sabotage God will.
I agree that God can change His will in some cases. But in the end it is God, not human who change course.
hm, I hope you understand, what I mean.
be blessed
We all labor - we labor as we run the race, as we fight the fight, as we fight the battle between the flesh and the spirit for we wrestle not against flesh and blood. In the end we will have rest - when we leave these earthly bodies; we will rest eternally with our Lord.
The prodigal son realized he had made a mistake when he left home when things got bad for him so he humbled himself before his father and his father had compassion on him. Where are the words "spiritually" in the verses?
1 Corinthians is not just written to the church at Corinth: to the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours: so it is applicable to all Christians. Yes, 1 Cor. 3 is about judgment which was said when brought up previously. What makes up the Chruch - individuals. Paul laid the foundation in doctrine: Jesus Christ. Others build upon that - we are each responsible for teaching others for we are ambassadors for Christ and we are to build upon that foundation laid by Paul - Jesus Christ. What works do I build upon this foundation? When verses 12,13,14,15 say "man, man's" it is speaking of individuals and what those individuals build upon the foundation. Our responsibility is to speak God's word, to plant the seed but we are not responsible for that person's belief or faith in Christ (being converted), neither was Paul. We all feel at a loss when someone we speak to doesn't believe but it is not our responsibility to make them believe - We plant but it is God that gives the increase. That's like saying Paul was responsible for someone's salvation!
What gets MISSED in all of this is one thing,the warnings ALL go back thing and that is walking or falling away from the faith. Continued unrepentant sin DAMAGES and weakens our faith. If one loses their faith,then HOW in the world can that person STILL be declared righteous? No one can be declared righteous without faith. Jesus warnings all lead in the end to UNBELIEF.