Oh there is a LOT of slinking going on around here.
And absolutely NONE of it is on the part of the futurist dispensationalists.
We deny nothing. And win every engagement in overwhelming fashion.
Replacement theology? Yes or No.
- Thread starter Gideon300
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And absolutely NONE of it is on the part of the futurist dispensationalists.
We deny nothing. And win every engagement in overwhelming fashion.
Yes, some just more subtle than others.
Here's what most of them do not realize about prophecy and how it was written:
How Cross-References Prove a Prophecy Is Still Future
The method is consistent: a prophecy in one passage is repeated, quoted, or echoed in another passage that explicitly places it in a future timeframe. When the "echo" is tied to an event that has not yet occurred, the original prophecy must also be future.1. Daniel's 70th Week → Jesus' Olivet Discourse
Daniel 9:27 describes a final "week" in which the Messiah is "cut off" and the temple is destroyed. The first 69 weeks were fulfilled in the first-century temple's destruction (AD 70). But the 70th week has no historical match.Cross-reference: In Matthew 24:15, Jesus quotes Daniel's "abomination of desolation" and says "you who reads, let him understand" — directing his listeners to a future event. In Matthew 24:21, he calls it "great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world, no, nor ever shall be." The fact that Jesus treats Daniel's language as unfulfilled and upcoming is direct proof the 70th week is future.
2. Joel's "Day of the Lord" → Pentecost + Matthew 24
Joel 2:28–31 predicts an outpouring of the Spirit followed by "blood and fire and billows of smoke," the sun turned to darkness, and the moon to blood.Cross-reference: In Acts 2:16–21, Peter quotes the first part (the Spirit outpouring) and declares it is happening now. But he stops before the signs in verse 30–31. Those signs are picked up in Matthew 24:29 ("the sun shall be darkened, the moon shall not give its light, the stars shall fall") and Revelation 6:12–17 — both explicitly tied to Christ's second coming, not Pentecost. The partial fulfillment at Pentecost actually confirms the remaining signs are future, because the text itself wasn't fully exhausted.
3. Isaiah's Babylon → Revelation 18
Isaiah 13:19–22 says Babylon will be so utterly destroyed it will "never be inhabited" and become a haunt for jackals and owls. The Medo-Persian conquest in 539 BC did not produce this total, permanent desolation — the site is still inhabited.Cross-reference: Revelation 18:2, 9–10, 17–19 repeats the exact same language — "Babylon is fallen," "no one will find a place to hide," "they will stand far off for fear of her burning" — and places it in the end-time sequence. The repetition in Revelation is the proof: Isaiah's description was not fully satisfied in 539 BC, and Revelation confirms the full destruction is still to come.
4. Isaiah 9
Isaiah 9:6 says a child is born and "the government will be on his shoulders" and his kingdom will have "no end."Cross-reference: The child's birth was fulfilled in Christ's first coming (Matthew 1:23). But the government and endless kingdom were not. Zechariah 14:9 says "the LORD shall be king over all the earth," and Matthew 25:31–40 describes Christ sitting "on the throne of his glory" to judge the nations — both explicitly future events. The unfulfilled half of Isaiah 9:6 is anchored to the second coming by these cross-references.
5. Isaiah 65
Isaiah 65:17 promises "new heavens and a new earth." This has never occurred.Cross-reference: 2 Peter 3:13 says "we look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells" — using the present tense "look for," indicating it is still awaited. Revelation 21:1 then depicts the event happening in John's vision of the end. Three independent authors across ~700 years all point to the same unfulfilled event, confirming it is future.
6. Ezekiel's Gog and Magog → Revelation 20
Ezekiel 38–39 describes a massive invasion of Israel by Gog from Magog, defeated by God. No historical event matches this.Cross-reference: Revelation 20:7–10 picks up the same Gog and Magog narrative and places it after the thousand-year reign of Christ. Because Revelation explicitly sets it in the post-millennial timeframe, Ezekiel's prophecy is confirmed as future.
7. The Regathering of Israel → Multiple Cross-References
Deuteronomy 30:3–5 and Jeremiah 23:3 promise God will gather Israel "out of all countries." This was never fully realized in the post-exilic return.Cross-reference: Ezekiel 37 (the dry bones) is explicitly about national restoration. Romans 11:25–27 says "all Israel will be saved" and links it to "the removal of their sins" — a future event. Matthew 24:32–34 (the fig tree) uses Israel's restoration as a sign of Christ's near return, treating the regathering as a future prerequisite.
8. Zechariah 14
Zechariah 14:3–4 says "the LORD's feet will stand on the Mount of Olives" and the mountain will split.Cross-reference: In Acts 1:11, the angels tell the disciples that Jesus "will come in the same way as you have seen him go into heaven." This directly links Zechariah's future event to the promised second coming, confirming it has not yet happened.
The logic in every case is the same: if a later, explicitly future-timed scripture reuses the language of an earlier prophecy, and the event described in that earlier prophecy has no historical match, then the earlier prophecy must also be future. The cross-reference acts as a timestamp, pinning the unfulfilled prophecy to a specific future event.
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Two people were riding that blow up donkey by the way, cv5 and Arnold Fruchtenbaum
Nope, I totally agree with his Biblical POV.
Yep. Some people know how to read the entire scriptures the way they were intended. TOGETHER. Like GOD/JESUS.
Too many here want to separate Jesus from God. I've seen people claiming to be Christian who actually believe that the God of the Old Testament was a horrible God and that Jesus is the true God, as if they weren't one and the same. That's when people start struggling to understand the scriptures based on my own observances. Well, that, and some seriously deep seated hatred for another culture that God kept separate from us for reasons in which we can obviously see. The same reason those people hate Christians. Some of each is being made blind in their own time, as the Bible predicted in Romans 11:30-32. We aren't all going to live in peace together until we reach the light of Heaven.
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Why is it that you and your crew are calling King of the Jews the Goel Christ Jesus a fraud for saying this?
Mat 17:11
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
We however affirm this passage and rightly understand that it concatenates with the ENTIRE BIBLE.
And does so with impeccable precision and infallibility.
So tell us: why do you people just throw it under the bus with dripping contempt?
Partial failure for apostasizers? Yes?
Partial 'failure' for the Unfaithful members of The Body Of Christ? Yes?
Failure for the faithful members? No?
Ending in No Failure? Yes:
Christ Ending His Dispensation Of Grace With His Great Grace Departure, Yes?
Borrowed from 'link' ie = No failure, But Successful Completion Of:
(5) CHRIST "Gathers His Body” To Himself, to Take them To Heaven...
6)...For The Judgment Seat Of CHRIST, For HIS Heavenly Body,
(7a) ...After Judgment, the GRACE assembly Is Then Presented as
A Glorious Church, To CHRIST Himself!... (Ephesians 5:27 AV)
(7b) ...And, Then CHRIST Will Present His Body, holy and
unblameable and unreproveable, In His Sight, To His Father,
In Heaven, Where we Live * Forever And Ever! Amen!
"For whom He Did Foreknow, He also Did Predestinate To
Be Conformed To The Image Of His SON, That He might Be
The Firstborn [ Preeminent ? ] among many brethren."
(Romans 8:29 AV)
Successful Completion Of God's [ Heavenly ] Purpose For His Body, The Church!
Thus "replacement theology" { Heavenly Body of Christ replacing earthly Israel } is false.
Amen?
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And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:
The Bible: The BIG Picture
Amen.
Your hopes, dreams, ambitions and fantasies do not align with the unequivocal Biblical facts.
Luk 1:30
Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
Luk 1:31
“And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call His name JESUS.
Luk 1:32
“He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.
Luk 1:33
“And He will reign over the house of Jacob forever, and of His kingdom there will be no end.”
Isaiah 9:6 says a child is born and "the government will be on his shoulders" and his kingdom will have "no end."
Cross-reference: The child's birth was fulfilled in Christ's first coming (Matthew 1:23). But the government and endless kingdom were not. Zechariah 14:9 says "the LORD shall be king over all the earth," and Matthew 25:31–40 describes Christ sitting "on the throne of his glory" to judge the nations — both explicitly future events.
The unfulfilled half of Isaiah 9:6 is anchored to the second coming by these cross-references.