Replacement theology? Yes or No.

[Churchgoer]

Jesus was always the plan. He is also the Church. How did He replace something?

The promises of the OT were made in type, but always pointed to spiritual reality.

You might want to ask... will God honor those promises in type that were made in type, even though they pointed to spiritual truth?

In short, Jesus didn't replace, He fulfilled. Jesus is the Antitype.

You might want to ask... was there always a spiritual Israel (Romans 9:6)?

Possible some people is pushing to replace Jesus.
An ethnicity blood to replace Jesus blood.
We say nooooo way!!!!!

2 group of people, 1 group out of the 1st Adam, doomed.
The other group out of Jesus (2nd Adam) , receiving life, and abundantly.

Jesus is God, His sovereign power will not let any human system to replace Him. He is real and alive!!!

 

[Aaron56]

Possible some people is pushing to replace Jesus.
An ethnicity blood to replace Jesus blood.
We say nooooo way!!!!!

2 group of people, 1 group out of the 1st Adam, doomed.
The other group out of Jesus (2nd Adam) , receiving life, and abundantly.

Jesus is God, His sovereign power will not let any human system to replace Him. He is real and alive!!!

Racism is winked at in a lot of church circles. That's why we have black, Ukranian, Greek, Asian - and many other kinds of- churches and no one bats an eye. The Body of Christ unites all into One, regardless of race. The delusional promote such divisions.

 

[Beekeeper]

Right. The old covenant would require the existence of the Levitical priesthood. The Sinai Law could not annul the promises God gave to Abraham. God swore by Himself to ratify the covenant. It required no participation of man to vest for the benefit of man.

Yet the Abrahamic covenant remains unbroken with or without an earthly nation.
The old covenant nation depended on the Mosaic covenant, which is was built on in the first place.
Keeping Sinai law involved the Levitical priesthood and the temple, without which it cannot be kept.
If God was to bind a group of people to that law in this time, they would be in a very miserable situation, as they would be bound to all the curses written under the law.
Under the New covenant we have a High Priest who is Himself both the temple and the sacrifice.
The earthly nation and it's law does not need to continue because Jesus is the fulfillment of it.
The real reason people are looking to earthly Israel is because they do not believe in Jesus.

 

[cv5]

Is God still keeping people bound to the law of Moses?
If not, old covenant national Israel no longer exists in the eyes of God.
God has made a new covenant with the house of Israel, and it does not involve an earthly nation.
The book of Revelations makes sense because most of it is about Gods destruction of that earthly nation.

Deuteronomy 28:63
And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Revelations 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

"God has made a new covenant with the house of Israel, and it does not involve an earthly nation."

On the contrary, the New Covenant with an end-time repentant Nation Israel GUARANTEES that the original land grant given to Abraham will be fully and finally fulfilled.

Why?
Because of course the Nation will never rebel again. And they will occupy their land forevermore.
Because of course the New Covenant blessings for the Church will be finally and fully fulfilled at the HARPAZO.
Because of course the New Covenant blessings for the Nation Israel DIFFER very substantially from those bequeathed to the Church.

Oh yes, the matter is "when" not "if". Jesus clearly answers in the future affirmative.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

 

[cv5]

Absolutely!!!!
You nail it!!!
God centered!!!!
From beginning to end!!!!

Let us have you answer some questions about this "replacement theology" you are selling shall we?

Who exactly is this "future Elijah" going to address when he comes yet future? The Church?
What exactly is this "future Elijah" going to restore? The Church?
Who exactly is this "future Elijah" going to herald and why? What is he going to "restore"? It cannot be the Church as it has already been established for 2000 years and cannot and will not falter nor fail.

Mat 17:10
And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Mat 17:11
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat 17:12
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mat 17:13
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Act 3:21
“whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

 

[Dave123]

Right. The Law of God, before Sinai, was simply "Believe what I tell you". Adam walked with God. As did Abel, Seth, Enosh, Enoch, Noah, etc. Abraham believed God and was found righteous in God's eyes for doing so. Shem was likely Melchizedeck, "Priest of God Most High", who blessed Abraham after the battle of the kings. To demonstrate the supremacy of the priestly order of Melchizedek, we are told that Levi tithed to Melchizedek while in Abraham's loins. This is counter to the Old Covenant law permitting only the Levites to receive tithes. The law at Sinai has no authority over the Law ratified in Christ from the foundation of the world. Indeed, like John the Baptist said “He must increase, but I must decrease."

Just to be sure that we're on the same page, the righteousness that Abraham was credited with, was Jesus' righteousness, as fully man and fully God in His incarnation, the righteousness of God, right? As I see it, that righteousness was credited, because that credit could only be realized when the imputation was possible, after the cross, right?

Could the Lambs blood on the door at pass over be a fulfilment in type (Pictures Jesus on the cross), of a type of spiritual Israel, that being physical Israel, and saving God's people from physical death? Meaning the type (stopping physical death of Israel) was fulfilled in type (Lambs blood on the door).

Maybe the promises to physical Israel were all in type, so they would be answered in type also, and never able to save anyone spiritually, but pointed towards what or Who could. Just a thought.

 

[Churchgoer]

Let us have you answer some questions about this "replacement theology" you are selling shall we?

Who exactly is this "future Elijah" going to address when he comes yet future? The Church?
What exactly is this "future Elijah" going to restore? The Church?
Who exactly is this "future Elijah" going to herald and why? What is he going to "restore"? It cannot be the Church as it has already been established for 2000 years and cannot and will not falter nor fail.

Mat 17:10
And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?

Mat 17:11
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.

Mat 17:12
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.

Mat 17:13
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

Act 3:21
“whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began.

Mat 17:13
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

here you go. Answer is here.

 

[Aaron56]

Just to be sure that we're on the same page, the righteousness that Abraham was credited with, was Jesus' righteousness, as fully man and fully God in His incarnation, the righteousness of God, right? As I see it, that righteousness was credited, because that credit could only be realized when the imputation was possible, after the cross, right?

Could the Lambs blood on the door at pass over be a fulfilment in type (Pictures Jesus on the cross), of a type of spiritual Israel, that being physical Israel, and saving God's people from physical death? Meaning the type (stopping physical death of Israel) was fulfilled in type (Lambs blood on the door).

Maybe the promises to physical Israel were all in type, so they would be answered in type also, and never able to save anyone spiritually, but pointed towards what or Who could. Just a thought.

Yes. Since the price of righteousness was paid "from the foundation of the earth" by our High Priest, Christ, one may simply operate in the covenant to receive the imputation. "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness". In short, Abraham was a son of God, his Father. "For the Father loves the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does".

To your second point, I see that too.
"Now I say that the heir, as long as he is a child, does not differ at all from a slave, though he is master of all, 2but is under guardians and stewards until the time appointed by the father."

"..the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor."

It's important to note that Abraham was not under this tutor, the Sinai Law. He was operating under the Melchizedek administration, not the Levitical. But the nation of Israel was under this tutor, to bring them to Christ.

 

[Aaron56]

One last note: to be reconciled is to be brought back to God's original intent. Many in the church practice conciliation: whereby they accept a lower order, believing the glory Christ had with God at the beginning of creation is out of reach. They often cite this verse to "prove" their diminished ideas:

Isaiah 42:8 "I am the Lord; that is my name! I will not give my glory to another..."
Yet, Jesus prayed this way John 17:22 "I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one".
The simple understanding is this: in Christ, we are not "another".

Ephesians 5:30 "..we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones."

This fully reconciles us to the Father, not as orphans but as sons in the House of God. And, as sons, our spirits are alive to serve God the Father in righteousness.

Hebrews 10:7 "Then I said, 'Behold, I have come—in the volume of the book it is written of me—to do your will, O God"

 

[Kroogz]

God has not yet finished with the nation of Israel.​

It is astounding that there are true believers who disagree with you.

I would question my eternal security if God just threw Israel under the bus.

 

[Beekeeper]

"God has made a new covenant with the house of Israel, and it does not involve an earthly nation."

On the contrary, the New Covenant with an end-time repentant Nation Israel GUARANTEES that the original land grant given to Abraham will be fully and finally fulfilled.

Why?
Because of course the Nation will never rebel again. And they will occupy their land forevermore.
Because of course the New Covenant blessings for the Church will be finally and fully fulfilled at the HARPAZO.
Because of course the New Covenant blessings for the Nation Israel DIFFER very substantially from those bequeathed to the Church.

Oh yes, the matter is "when" not "if". Jesus clearly answers in the future affirmative.

Act 1:6
When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

Act 1:7
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

In the Bible earthly national Israel exists only under the old covenant.
After the old covenant is gone the earthly nation is destroyed.
In effort to build a concept of a new covenant earthly nation you also introduce other un Biblical concepts.

Jesus kingdom is heavenly and eternal as He told us (Luke 17:21 and John 18:36).
When Jesus returns, the earth will be destroyed (2Peter 3:10-13).
The kingdom He is coming to restore is not of this world either, or it could not be eternal.
Just as it was in the past, many are still not willing to accept a Jesus who is not worldly, and either look for another Messiah or hope that Jesus will be more to their liking next time He comes.
For that reason the doctrine of the resurrection has come under attack with 2 stage "rapture" teaching.
A separate rapture of the church is clearly not what is going to happen.
In the passage from Mathew 25:31-46 ALL are brought before Jesus, not just the church.

Many who have hoped that Jesus would restore the earthly nation have already turned against Him when they learned otherwise.
How about you?
If you did not believe that the Bible supported earthly Israel, would you continue to be interested in studying it?

 

[Beekeeper]

Mat 17:13
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist.

here you go. Answer is here.

It just goes to show that if we do not wish to believe what the NT says, the interpretations can go anywhere!

 

[Bible_Locket]

Hell no. Israel as God's chosen people is irreplaceable. The Gentile church as we know it is grafted into the commonwealth of Israel, access to God is extended to us Gentiles through Jesus, by no means is that a replacement of the original Israel. Gentiles are specifically warned in Rom. 11:19-21 on this.

For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. (Rom. 11:13-21)

Well said.

Galatians 3:29 says, “If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.”


This article takes about 5 minutes or less to read. IMO,well worth the time.

Are Israel and the church the same thing? Does God still have a plan for Israel? | GotQuestions.org

Are Israel and the church the same thing? Does God still have a plan for Israel? How does Israel fit into God’s plan for the church age?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Beekeeper]

It is astounding that there are true believers who disagree with you.

I would question my eternal security if God just threw Israel under the bus.

Earthly Israel was built on a covenant mediated by a man and confirmed by the blood of animals.
While you still can, build your eternal security on a better covenant.
Hebrews 8.

 

[dkontner]

Revelation 18​

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

 

[Gpianolf]

I understand both sides of the debate, but there are not two peoples of God. There’s only one. And believers are grafted in. They don’t replace. They are the same people.

 

[Wansvic]

Is God still keeping people bound to the law of Moses?
If not, old covenant national Israel no longer exists in the eyes of God.
God has made a new covenant with the house of Israel, and it does not involve an earthly nation.
The book of Revelations makes sense because most of it is about Gods destruction of that earthly nation.

Deuteronomy 28:63
And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Revelations 18:20 Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.

Revelations 18 pertains to the Whore of Babylon which Israel is not!

Israel is actually protected for 3 1/2 years when satan/dragon wreaks havoc on the remnant of her seed meaning Christians.

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:14-17



The Apostle Paul explained what many today fail to grasp. And that is the people of Israel are still God's chosen:
"Did God's people stumble and fall beyond recovery? Of course not! They were disobedient, so God made salvation available to the Gentiles. But he wanted his own people to become jealous and claim it for themselves.

Now if the Gentiles were enriched because the people of Israel turned down God's offer of salvation, think how much greater a blessing the world will share when they finally accept it." Rom 11:11-12


"For since their rejection meant that God offered salvation to the rest of the world, their acceptance will be even more wonderful. It will be life for those who were dead!
And since Abraham and the other patriarchs were holy, their descendants will also be holy—just as the entire batch of dough is holy because the portion given as an offering is holy. For if the roots of the tree are holy, the branches will be, too.

But some of these branches from Abraham's tree—some of the people of Israel—have been broken off. And you Gentiles, who were branches from a wild olive tree, have been grafted in. So now you also receive the blessing God has promised Abraham and his children, sharing in the rich nourishment from the root of God's special olive tree.

But you must not brag about being grafted in to replace the branches that were broken off. You are just a branch, not the root." Rom. 11:15-18



"I want you to understand this mystery, dear brothers and sisters, so that you will not feel proud about yourselves. Some of the people of Israel have hard hearts, but this will last only until the full number of Gentiles comes to Christ.

And so all Israel will be saved. As the Scriptures say,
"The one who rescues will come from Jerusalem, and he will turn Israel away from ungodliness.
And this is my covenant with them, that I will take away their sins."

Many of the people of Israel are now enemies of the Good News, and this benefits you Gentiles. Yet they are still the people he loves because he chose their ancestors Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
For God's gifts and his call can never be withdrawn.

Once, you Gentiles were rebels against God, but when the people of Israel rebelled against him, God was merciful to you instead.
Now they are the rebels, and God's mercy has come to you so that they, too, will share in God's mercy.
For God has imprisoned everyone in disobedience so he could have mercy on everyone.

Oh, how great are God's riches and wisdom and knowledge! How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his ways!
For who can know the Lord's thoughts? Who knows enough to give him advice?
And who has given him so much that he needs to pay it back?
For everything comes from him and exists by his power and is intended for his glory. All glory to him forever! Amen." Rom 11:25-36



"...Whoever blesses Israel will be blessed, and whoever curses Israel will be cursed." Num. 24:9

 

[Wansvic]

Revelation 18​

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Revelation 18 is not about Israel. The chapter pertains to the counterfeit, not the true bride. The Whore of Babylon is the false One World Religion soon to be unveiled.

 

[Wansvic]

Two people's is so indoctrinated into your mind you cannot see there has always only been one people >>> those who believed of the future messiah and those who believe when the promise arrived and He fulfilled it all.

The scriptures that @cv5 provided and you neglected to add point to the reality too many refuse to accept.

"James’s wording ***preserves*** rather than destroys the distinction between the present Church Age and Israel’s future kingdom:
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.”
That is God’s present work: taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.

James then quotes:
"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down.”


@cv5 also included scripture in another post that requires intentionally turning a BLIND eye to as well:

"Explain if you can these crucial UNTIL statements.
Act 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Act 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luk 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."


A rejection of the Jewish nation makes little sense considering that Christian believers are grafted into a spiritual heritage that began with them. It’s hard to fully appreciate Jesus without also honoring and having a heart for the people He came from, those God calls His chosen.

 

[HeIsHere]

The scriptures that @cv5 provided and you neglected to add point to the reality too many refuse to accept.

"James’s wording ***preserves*** rather than destroys the distinction between the present Church Age and Israel’s future kingdom:
"Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.”
That is God’s present work: taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name.

James then quotes:
"After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down.”


@cv5 also included scripture in another post that requires intentionally turning a BLIND eye to as well:

"Explain if you can these crucial UNTIL statements.
Act 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

Act 3:21
Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

Luk 13:35
Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Luk 21:24
And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Rom 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."


A rejection of the Jewish nation makes little sense considering that Christian believers are grafted into a spiritual heritage that began with them. It’s hard to fully appreciate Jesus without also honoring and having a heart for the people He came from, those God calls His chosen.

In their future, not ours, written to them.

Audience relevance.