Replacement theology? Yes or No.

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The real meaning takes you to a place that you do not want to go.
Cornelius will inherit the exact same promise as the house of Israel and the house of Judah.

Peter and his Jewish friends struggled with that one too, but they worked it out.
You did not.
So now you can go ahead and write a long essay "proving" that that is not the case.
Oh and BTW, there was NEVER a Church age "regathering" of the house of Israel and the house of Judah back TO Jerusalem and back TO the LAND of Israel.

Rather, there was an early Church age dispersion FROM Jerusalem and Israel, which became permanent in short order.

And another RT fallacy bites the dust.

The early Church period saw Jewish exile and dispersion away from Jerusalem, not a national regathering of the Twelve Tribes to the land:

Acts 8:1: Early Jewish believers were dispersed throughout Judea and Samaria following Stephen’s martyrdom.

70 AD: The Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple under Titus scattered the Jewish population.

132–136 AD: The Bar Kokhba Revolt resulted in Emperor Hadrian banning Jews from entering Jerusalem entirely, renaming the city Aelia Capitolina and the province Syria Palaestina.
 
Who is the seed of Israel?
Gomer.

Love (‘āhab): Hosea 3:1 commands Hosea: "Go again, love a woman who is loved by another lover and is an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel." God's primary action toward her is persistent, unmerited love.

Oh and BTW, the virgin Bride Church is NEVER stated by God to be "an adulteress"......🥲

I say that now to quash anyone's supersessionist pretensions to re-define Gomer aka the Nation Israel as the Church before they ever start.

Game set match. Is there anyone else that needs to be served some Biblically accurate doctrinal truth?
 
Jesus said, who is my mother brother? Those who does the will of God is my brother sister mother.
Right. And so will the Nation Israel soon enough. You do realize that the Church has absolutely NO inheritance to "the land"......right? :rolleyes::oops:

And you do realize that the mystery Church is NEVER called "the house of Israel", nor are they ever stated to have David as King over them.....right? 🥲

Eze 37:3 - And He said to me, “Son of man, can these bones live?” So I answered, “O Lord GOD, You know.”

Eze 37:11 - Then He said to me, “Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel. They indeed say, ‘Our bones are dry, our hope is lost, and we ourselves are cut off!’

Eze 37:14 - “I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the LORD, have spoken it and performed it,” says the LORD.’ ”

Eze 37:23 - “They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

Eze 37:24 - “David My servant shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd; they shall also walk in My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them.

Eze 37:25 - “Then they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Jacob My servant, where your fathers dwelt; and they shall dwell there, they, their children, and their children’s children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever.
 
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Gomer.

Love (‘āhab): Hosea 3:1 commands Hosea: "Go again, love a woman who is loved by another lover and is an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel." God's primary action toward her is persistent, unmerited love.

Oh and BTW, the virgin Bride Church is NEVER stated by God to be "an adulteress"......🥲

I say that now to quash anyone's supersessionist pretensions to re-define Gomer aka the Nation Israel as the Church before they ever start.

Game set match. Is there anyone else that needs to be served some Biblically accurate doctrinal truth?

If Gomer wants to follow false Gods I do not support her, but if she wants to repent and follow Jesus I support her.
In any case it is not the earthly nation whom God will save.

The redeemed of Israel are not called adulterers and adulteresses either.

Revelations 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

These are Israelites saved from the destruction of Jerusalem.
They are called "virgins" because they have not followed the strange gods of the Pharisees.
Being married is not being "defiled with women".
 
Oh and BTW, there was NEVER a Church age "regathering" of the house of Israel and the house of Judah back TO Jerusalem and back TO the LAND of Israel.

Rather, there was an early Church age dispersion FROM Jerusalem and Israel, which became permanent in short order.

And another RT fallacy bites the dust.

The early Church period saw Jewish exile and dispersion away from Jerusalem, not a national regathering of the Twelve Tribes to the land:

Acts 8:1: Early Jewish believers were dispersed throughout Judea and Samaria following Stephen’s martyrdom.

70 AD: The Roman destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple under Titus scattered the Jewish population.

132–136 AD: The Bar Kokhba Revolt resulted in Emperor Hadrian banning Jews from entering Jerusalem entirely, renaming the city Aelia Capitolina and the province Syria Palaestina.

Oh BTW the first half of Jeremiah 31 is without a doubt about the return from Babylon.
Notice the reference to to their journey along the Euphrates in V.9.
From V. 31 it is about the New Covenant, and the conclusion of the regathering takes place in Heavenly Jerusalem.

Your millennial earthly reign story does nothing to satisfy this prediction, because it is an eternal prediction and your story is finite.
The only thing accomplished by adding a millennial earthly reign to Christian eschatology is that it attempts to give Biblical legitimacy to modern Israel.
If that is the main goal, it matters not how much damage you do to a correct understanding of scripture, or evidently anything else.

Most political moves require public support and to greater or lesser extents use propaganda.
Due to the name and location of modern Israel, they have become dependent on the support of Christian evangelicals, and dispensationalist doctrine is the propaganda tool that they use.
No honest regard is given to the intended meaning of the Bible, only to the reinterpretation of it to persuade Christians to support the corrupt institution of modern Israel.

As a dispensationalist if you do that successfully, you have "won".

And you do realize that the mystery Church is NEVER called "the house of Israel", nor are they ever stated to have David as King over them.....right
 
Mathew 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

BTW, did you want to chime in on the Matthew 25 sheep and goat NATIONS judgement?
I didn't think so. Nor does any other supersessionist.

So when you read the word "nations" (ethnos) in v.32 did you really think that God regards our vain political structures?
It sounds like you might be categorizing New Zealand as a sheep and Australia as a goat!
Did you not consider that it could possibly mean people of all families, i.e. everyone?

Notice that the unbelieving "goats" are gathered before Him too, with no mention of a 1000 year time gap.
It does not look good for your eschatological model, but I do not expect you to care.

The true motivation behind dispensationalist doctrine is not to get it right.
 
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If Gomer wants to follow false Gods I do not support her, but if she wants to repent and follow Jesus I support her.
In any case it is not the earthly nation whom God will save.

The redeemed of Israel are not called adulterers and adulteresses either.

Revelations 14:4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

These are Israelites saved from the destruction of Jerusalem.
They are called "virgins" because they have not followed the strange gods of the Pharisees.
Being married is not being "defiled with women".

The 144,000 that make up 12,000 each from the 12 tribes of Israel are sealed during the last Great Tribulation so they are not harmed (Revelation 7).

By the time Jesus actually returns, the number of people who are saved in the land will increase, but the majority of them will still be cut off.

Zechariah 13:8-9

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
 
The 144,000 that make up 12,000 each from the 12 tribes of Israel are sealed during the last Great Tribulation so they are not harmed (Revelation 7).

By the time Jesus actually returns, the number of people who are saved in the land will increase, but the majority of them will still be cut off.

Zechariah 13:8-9

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

In the dispensationalist belief system I thought that would mean that two thirds of the Jews, whom you profess to love will be slaughtered by the Antichrist, whom you do everything you can to facilitate.
All good, because you get raptured first.
 
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Gomer.

Love (‘āhab): Hosea 3:1 commands Hosea: "Go again, love a woman who is loved by another lover and is an adulteress, even as the Lord loves the children of Israel." God's primary action toward her is persistent, unmerited love.
yes, in ot, God showed love to Israel over and over, until divorce.
Oh and BTW, the virgin Bride Church is NEVER stated by God to be "an adulteress"......🥲
Correct. True believer has a new heart. Faithful to God.
I say that now to quash anyone's supersessionist pretensions to re-define Gomer aka the Nation Israel as the Church before they ever start.

Game set match. Is there anyone else that needs to be served some Biblically accurate doctrinal truth?
Jesus the fulfillment. Never about ethnicity.
 
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In the dispensationalist belief system I thought that would mean that two thirds of the Jews, whom you profess to love will be slaughtered by the Antichrist, whom you do everything you can to facilitate.
All good, because you get raptured first.

There aren't just Jews living in the current land. It's filled with Arabs and Muslims too.
 
Oh BTW the first half of Jeremiah 31 is without a doubt about the return from Babylon.
Notice the reference to to their journey along the Euphrates in V.9.
From V. 31 it is about the New Covenant, and the conclusion of the regathering takes place in Heavenly Jerusalem.

Your millennial earthly reign story does nothing to satisfy this prediction, because it is an eternal prediction and your story is finite.
The only thing accomplished by adding a millennial earthly reign to Christian eschatology is that it attempts to give Biblical legitimacy to modern Israel.
If that is the main goal, it matters not how much damage you do to a correct understanding of scripture, or evidently anything else.

Most political moves require public support and to greater or lesser extents use propaganda.
Due to the name and location of modern Israel, they have become dependent on the support of Christian evangelicals, and dispensationalist doctrine is the propaganda tool that they use.
No honest regard is given to the intended meaning of the Bible, only to the reinterpretation of it to persuade Christians to support the corrupt institution of modern Israel.

As a dispensationalist if you do that successfully, you have "won".
No.... :sneaky:

At the time of the return from Babylon, God DID NOT make a "NEW COVENANT" with the Nation Israel.
Furthermore, Messianic Jewish believers during THE CHURCH AGE historically have NEVER been regathered to THE LAND.

So you have been defeated on all fronts as all of your arguments have been proven spurious and vexatious.

***********************************************************

The sequence is:

dispersion → regathering → cleansing → covenant renewalrestoration.

Jeremiah 31:31 says:

“I will make a NEW COVENANT with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah.”

Jeremiah 32 repeats the same promise and explicitly adds the land

Jeremiah 32:37:

“I will gather them out of all countries…”
Verse 38:

“They shall be my people, and I will be their God.”
Verse 40:

“I will make an everlasting covenant with them…”
Then verse 41:

“I will plant them in this land assuredly with my whole heart and with my whole soul.”
 
Jeremiah 31–32 shows two distinct movements—
the historical return from Babylon (vv.1–30) and
the eschatological New Covenant regathering (vv.31–40)—
and because the New Covenant is everlasting, includes all Israel, and ends with God planting them in the land forever,
neither a purely post‑exilic fulfillment nor a purely heavenly fulfillment satisfies the text.
 
So when you read the word "nations" (ethnos) in v.32 did you really think that God regards our vain political structures?
It sounds like you might be categorizing New Zealand as a sheep and Australia as a goat!
Did you not consider that it could possibly mean people of all families, i.e. everyone?

Notice that the unbelieving "goats" are gathered before Him too, with no mention of a 1000 year time gap.
It does not look good for your eschatological model, but I do not expect you to care.

The true motivation behind dispensationalist doctrine is not to get it right.
There is no 1000 year gap to consider at the time of the sheep and goats nations judgement.
Because this particular judgement occurs immediately subsequent to the Second Coming to deliver Gomer and redeem Naomi.

Are you having difficulty fully grasping the fullness of this eschatology? I ask because you keep dumbing it down. Waaaay down.

Yes — Fruchtenbaum does connect the 1,335-day endpoint with the interval after the Second Coming during which the sheep-and-goats judgment of Matthew 25 occurs, though it is useful to state the chronology carefully.

In his dispensational chronology, the final half of Daniel’s 70th week is 1,260 days. Christ returns at the end of those 1,260 days. Daniel 12:11 then gives 1,290 days, creating an additional 30-day interval, and Daniel 12:12 extends that to 1,335 days, another 45 days, or 75 days total after the Second Coming.

Fruchtenbaum treats this 75-day interval as a transitional period between Christ’s return and the formal commencement of the Messianic/Millennial Kingdom. During it, several necessary events occur: the Antichrist’s system is removed, Israel is restored and gathered, judgments take place, and the population that will enter the Kingdom is determined.

The Judgment of the Gentiles/Nations — the sheep and goats of Matthew 25:31–46 — belongs in this interval. Those surviving Gentiles judged as “sheep” enter the Messianic Kingdom in their natural bodies; the “goats” are excluded and sent to judgment. This explains very naturally why Daniel says:

“Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.”
The person who actually reaches the 1,335th day has survived not merely the Tribulation but the subsequent judgments and therefore is among those permitted to enter the Kingdom.

A commonly stated dispensational reconstruction is:

Abomination of Desolation
→ 1,260 days
Second Coming — Daniel 12:7 / Revelation 19
→ +30 days
1,290 days — Daniel 12:11
→ +45 days
1,335 days — Daniel 12:12
survivors enter the Messianic Kingdom

The sheep-and-goats judgment therefore fits especially well into the additional 45-day period between day 1,290 and day 1,335, although the whole 75-day interval contains various post-Advent events. This interpretation is also found more broadly among dispensational writers: the 1,335-day terminus is understood as the point at which the surviving righteous enter the Millennium after the judgment of the nations.

And notice how closely Matthew 25 itself supports that sequence. Christ first arrives:

Matthew 25:31: “When the Son of man shall come in his glory…”

Then He sits upon His throne and gathers the surviving nations before Him:

Matthew 25:32: “And before him shall be gathered all nations…”

Then comes the separation.

Finally, the sheep are told:

Matthew 25:34: “Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you…”

That wording is significant. They are not already living under the established Millennial administration and subsequently judged. The judgment determines who enters/inherits the Kingdom.


Daniel 12:12's “blessed” survivor at day 1,335 corresponds very naturally to the Matthew 25 “blessed of my Father” who has passed the post-Tribulation judgment and is now qualified to enter the Messianic Kingdom.

The remarkable verbal/conceptual correspondence is:

Daniel 12:12:Blessed is he…that cometh to…1,335 days.”
Matthew 25:34: “Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom.”

That is almost certainly the theological reason dispensationalists identify day 1,335 with the completed transition into the Millennium, rather than with Christ's actual Second Coming 75 days earlier.
 
yes, in ot, God showed love to Israel over and over, until divorce.

Correct. True believer has a new heart. Faithful to God.

Jesus the fulfillment. Never about ethnicity.
Hosea itself gives the interpretation so explicitly that identifying Gomer primarily with the covenant nation Israel—rather than merely Jewish believers during the Church age—is not dependent on speculative typology.

The decisive text is Hosea 3:1:

“Go yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress, according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel, who look to other gods…”
That is effectively the inspired interpretive key. Hosea’s relationship to the adulterous woman is explicitly patterned after YHWH’s relationship with “the children of Israel.” The text does not say “the believing remnant,” “elect Jews,” or “Jewish believers in Messiah.” It says Israel.

1. Hosea establishes the symbolism before Gomer is even married​

God tells Hosea:

Hosea 1:2 — “Go, take unto thee a wife of whoredoms… for the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD.
The subject of the spiritual adultery is “the land”the covenant nation inhabiting the land.

This is Israel's national apostasy from YHWH.

The entire marriage is therefore established as a prophetic sign-act:

Hosea → YHWH
Gomer → covenant Israel
Gomer's adultery → Israel's idolatry/apostasy
Gomer's judgment/separation → Israel's national chastisement
Gomer's restoration → Israel's future restoration


This interpretation comes from Hosea itself.

2. The children's names concern national Israel​

The three children reinforce the national interpretation.

Jezreel — Hosea 1:4–5

“I will cause to cease the kingdom of the house of Israel.”
That is unmistakably political and national.

Lo-Ruhamah — Hosea 1:6

“I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel…”
Again, not Jewish believers. The judgment concerns the house of Israel corporately.

Lo-Ammi — Hosea 1:9

“for ye are not my people…”
But this judgment is later reversed:

Hosea 2:23 — “I will have mercy upon her that had not obtained mercy; and I will say to them which were not my people, Thou art my people; and they shall say, Thou art my God.”
The same corporate people placed under covenant discipline are subsequently restored.

That continuity is extremely important:

Israel judged → Israel preserved → Israel restored.

The text does not change the identity of the woman halfway through the prophecy.

3. Hosea 3:1 explicitly identifies Gomer's analogue​

This alone nearly settles the issue:

“according to the love of the LORD toward the children of Israel…”
The analogy is:

Hosea loves Gomer despite her adultery
because YHWH loves Israel despite Israel's adultery.

It would actually require overriding Hosea's own explanation to make Gomer represent specifically Church-age Jewish believers.

Moreover, believing Jews are precisely the group for whom the adultery imagery is least appropriate. Gomer represents the woman in alienation and infidelity, whereas Jewish believers in Christ have already turned to Israel's Messiah.

4. Hosea's purchase of Gomer is followed immediately by a prophecy about Israel's prolonged national condition​

This is perhaps the strongest contextual argument.

Hosea purchases her:

Hosea 3:2 — “So I bought her to me for fifteen pieces of silver…”
He then tells her that she must remain separated for a period:

3:3 — “Thou shalt abide for me many days…”
Then God immediately explains what this signifies:

3:4 — “For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice…”
Notice the for.

Gomer's condition in verse 3 corresponds directly to Israel's condition in verse 4.

The typology therefore isn't something imposed upon the passage:

Gomer will “abide many days” →
“FOR the children of Israel shall abide many days…”


That is the divine interpretation.

5. Those “many days” describe national Israel, not Jewish Christians​

Hosea says Israel will exist:

  • without a king
  • without a prince
  • without a sacrifice
  • without an image/pillar
  • without an ephod
  • without teraphim
That is describing Israel's historical-national and religious condition.

Then comes a dramatic reversal:

Hosea 3:5 — “Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days.”
The sequence is explicit:

apostasy → judgment → prolonged deprivation → return → Davidic restoration → latter days

That cannot naturally describe Church-age Jewish believers because the people in view return afterward and seek YHWH and the Davidic King.

Christian Jews have already sought and received the Son of David.

The prophecy concerns an Israel that is presently alienated and subsequently returns.

6. “Afterward” destroys the idea that Hosea 3 is simply the present believing Jewish remnant​

The Hebrew is אַחַר ('aḥar)—afterward.

The temporal structure matters:

“For the children of Israel shall abide many days…”
then

Afterward shall the children of Israel return…”
and this occurs:

in the latter days.”
Therefore Hosea predicts an identifiable future conversion/restoration of the same people who previously endured the prolonged chastisement.

That is remarkably close to Paul's argument in Romans 11:

“blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved…”
—Romans 11:25–26
There is again a temporal sequence:

Israel hardened → Gentile period → Israel delivered.

7. Hosea 2 likewise identifies the restored woman with national Israel​

Hosea 2 is saturated with national covenant terminology:

“I will give her her vineyards from thence…” —2:15
“I will make a covenant for them… and will make them to lie down safely.” —2:18
“I will sow her unto me in the earth…” —2:23
The restoration involves the same woman who had been punished for covenant infidelity.

This follows the common prophetic marriage metaphor found elsewhere:

Isaiah 54:5–8
Jeremiah 2–3
Ezekiel 16
Ezekiel 23


In each case the adulterous wife imagery concerns Israel/Judah in covenant relationship with YHWH.

8. Hosea 13:14 is likewise addressed to Ephraim/Israel​

Your connection with redemption vocabulary is important:

“I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death…”
The surrounding chapters repeatedly identify the subject:

Hosea 13:1 — “When Ephraim spake trembling…”
13:4 — “I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt…”
13:9 — “O Israel, thou hast destroyed thyself…”
14:1 — “O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God…”
14:4 — “I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely…”
And finally:

14:5 — “I will be as the dew unto Israel…”
There is no exegetical opening here to redefine the object of God's redemptive restoration as exclusively Church-age Jewish believers.

The argument can therefore be stated almost mathematically​

Premise 1: God says Gomer's adultery depicts Israel's spiritual adultery (Hos. 1:2).

Premise 2: God says Hosea's continuing love for the adulterous woman depicts YHWH's love for the children of Israel (Hos. 3:1).

Premise 3: Gomer's period of separation explicitly corresponds to “the children of Israel” abiding “many days” without their national and cultic institutions (Hos. 3:3–4).

Premise 4: Those same children of Israel subsequently “return” to YHWH and seek David their king “in the latter days” (Hos. 3:5).

Conclusion: Gomer's prophetic type is covenant/national Israel under judgment and subsequently restored, not merely Jewish believers living during the Church age.

And there is an especially powerful theological irony here:

Gomer represents Israel precisely while she is unfaithful.

Therefore restricting Gomer to believing Jews fundamentally reverses the symbolism. The woman represents Israel while estranged, loved despite her infidelity, disciplined for her infidelity, preserved through the period of estrangement, and finally brought back to her covenant Lord.

That is why Hosea 3:4–5 may be one of the clearest miniature summaries of Israel's entire prophetic history in Scripture:

Israel possessed by YHWH → Israel adulterous → Israel disciplined → “many days” of deprivation → Israel returns → Messiah the Davidic King → latter-day restoration.