Resurrection

[Adstar]

Question: The resurrection as taught by Paul, is it an event or is it a process ?

There are two resurrections revealed in the Book of Revelation.. Separated by 1000 years..

The First resurrection is of the Saints up to the time of the return of the LORD Jesus..

Revelation 20: KJV
4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."

At the end of the 1000 years there will be a final resurrection of everyone else for the final judgement..

Revelation 20: KJV
11 "And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. {12} And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. {13} And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."

Now depending on which Paul scriptures you are talking about.. Paul could be talking about either of these resurrections..

 

[Noose]

Could it be that the clouds you refer to is the same cloud of witness that surround us at this very moment?

I believe so.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Dear brother: If "SANCTIFICATION" is an on going process that means it is achieved through ones works.

No, it is not! I told you in the post that sanctification is the on-going process of being made holy through the Holy Spirit. Believers are not and cannot be sanctified through our own works, but by the in-working of the Holy Spirit in our lives. Here is the definition of sanctification.

"Cognate: 37 hagiázō (from 40 /hágios, "holy") – to regard as special (sacred), i.e. holy ("set apart"), sanctify. See 40 (hagios).

[37 (hagiázō) means "to make holy, consecrate, sanctify; to dedicate, separate"

 

[KJV1611]

A spirit is an understanding, he can not be in one particular place at one particular time; He also promised the thief on the cross a nice walk with him in paradise that very night, remember? So IMO, at that very moment, everything detailed in that passage happened as soon as Jesus gave up His ghost.

I believe that Abraham’s bosom was paradise.

 

[Noose]

I believe that Abraham’s bosom was paradise.

Psalm 139:7Where can I go to escape Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? 8If I ascend to the heavens, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol,You are there.

 

[KJV1611]

Psalm 139:7Where can I go to escape Your Spirit? Where can I flee from Your presence? 8If I ascend to the heavens, You are there; if I make my bed in Sheol,You are there.

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

We know that when Christ ascended, he took the captivity with him and gave us the Holy Spirit.
We also know that he descended into hell/hades to minister to the people there.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In my opinion Jesus is the speaker in Isaiah 26:19 and if it is, he is saying "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise".

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

 

[Noose]

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

We know that when Christ ascended, he took the captivity with him and gave us the Holy Spirit.
We also know that he descended into hell/hades to minister to the people there.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

In my opinion Jesus is the speaker in Isaiah 26:19 and if it is, he is saying "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise".

Isa 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.

The only way to describe omnipresence is by declaring one event after another in sequence even though it is just an understanding. Understanding is never restricted in time and space. I do believe Jesus set the souls free and at the same time walked in paradise with the redeemed thief as He promised - not literally but it is an understanding.

Isa 26:19 is very interesting, i didn't know KJV says "my body", i have always read other versions which says "their bodies"

 

[JamOn]

Its what the word the promised new name for the bride I beleive was intended to mean coming in at a appropriate time period .The time of reformation. The end of the pagan form of government. Christian a word that denotes a place . It would seem the word has lost that kind of understanding. Some say it was a derogatory word given by the world and not a name God gave to honor His bride the church. The first century new testament era began with suffering under the new name God named His bride. Christian

The suffix -ian is used to create adjectives from Latin nouns attributed to the founder or husband of the city. .The suffix -ian. . . denotes either coming from or belonging to. So the use of the word Christian would mean someone that comes from Christ or belonging to Christ as residents of His Holy city. Just as used with other cities . Philippians as to its residents named after it founder Philipp .

The early church was called Christians by the powers that be for the first time in Antioch, Acts 11:26. It wasn’t a name Jesus’ disciples gave themselves, it was a name given to them by the society in Antioch

From what I’ve learned Antioch was referred to as “all the world in one city.

 

[garee]

The early church was called Christians by the powers that be for the first time in Antioch, Acts 11:26. It wasn’t a name Jesus’ disciples gave themselves, it was a name given to them by the society in Antioch

From what I’ve learned Antioch which was referred to as “all the world in one city.

Thanks, I have not heard that. Was it the trade capitol?

I would think Christian would be a word that describes all the nations of the world prepared as his bride. It was a name he named her. She did not name her own self nor did the enemies. . . as if that beautiful city was not named in respect to the eye of the beholder. ..as His way of saying she is good.. It would seem to have lost that representative glory somewhat. The promised city of righteousness, the faithful city spoken of in Isaiah. .

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Dr. Larry Perkins

The verb chrēmatizō occurs 9 times in the New Testament. In broad Hellenistic usage it generally signifies to negotiate or have dealings with, often in a business setting or with reference to an official responding to a petition for help. When a deity is involved, then there are overtones of revelation, i.e. an oracle given in response to a petition. The sense of official declaration comes to be used in contexts where a person or a group is named or given a title

I would call it the work of God naming the new creation . . . "the good signature. Let there be. . ."

 

[JamOn]

Thanks, I have not heard that. Was it the trade capitol?

I would think Christian would be a word that describes all the nations of the world prepared as his bride. It was a name he named her. She did not name her own self nor did the enemies. . . as if that beautiful city was not named in respect to the eye of the beholder. ..as His way of saying she is good.. It would seem to have lost that representative glory somewhat. The promised city of righteousness, the faithful city spoken of in Isaiah. .

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.



I would call it the work of God naming the new creation . . . "the good signature. Let there be. . ."

Yes it was a type of melting pot of different people, a lot of city’s built in those times where round in shape with a market in the center, sectors divided the groups, thus came the name Christians.

 

[PERFECTION]

That is not true and calls into question your faith. If you knew what the meaning of resurrection is you wouldn't be claiming that the Lord rose spiritually. The word "anastasis" translated as "resurrection" has to do with the physical body and comes from two words

ana = up again and histemi = to stand, properly to "stand up again in a physical body

You are also ignoring scripture because it states that Jesus resurrection on the third day. When died on the cross, His spirit, along with the man next him, went to Sheol/Hades to that place of paradise where Abraham and Lazarus were as revealed in the event of the rich man and Lazarus. According to the scriptures three days later Jesus returned to His body and He stood up again, His body now being immortal and glorified, which is the same thing that is going to have to all who believe in Him.

To be clear, if a true believe died and the next day the Lord appeared to gather His church, the relatives of that man would not find His body in the morgue and because he would have been resurrected.

As previously stated, when Jesus appeared to His disciples behind locked doors they thought like you, that He was a spirit. To prove to them that it was He himself in the flesh he showed them the nail marks in His hands and feet and said, "A spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have." That's is what a resurrection is.

In addition, when a believer dies and their spirit departs from the bodies to go and be in the presence of the Lord, that is not a resurrection. It is not until they return to their bodies that it is a resurrection.



Scripture would disagree with you:

I really enjoy this conversation. Its what I live for talking about Jesus and the truth he has brought to us.

Next: According to scripture where did Abraham go when he died?

 

[Ahwatukee]

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?

We know that when Christ ascended, he took the captivity with him and gave us the Holy Spirit.
We also know that he descended into hell/hades to minister to the people there.

1Pe 3:19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
1Pe 3:20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

I personally don't believe that the above is in reference to Jesus preaching to those wicked who were taken away in the flood. When we read the event of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus back up to the earth to warn his five brothers so that they wouldn't also come to that place of torment in flame. The answer was that they have Moses and the prophets, i.e. they have the word of God to warn them. Then he said that they still would not believe even if one came back from the dead. Once a person dies in their sins, their record is sealed. There is no second change once a person has died and gone to Hades. Therefore, it would be in vain for Jesus to preach to them as though after they had died in their sins that they could have opportunity for salvation. The spirits that I believe Jesus was making proclamation to, was not those who were taken in the flood, but to those angels who took wives from the progeny of men and who had offspring in an attempt to corrupt the Messianic blood line in order to interfere with God's prophecy. Both Peter and Jude refer to these angels who were put down into Tartaroo/tartartus to be kept until the great white throne judgment. Jesus basically went there to say, "you failed in your attempt! I fulfilled all the prophesies written about me."

 

[PERFECTION]

That was directed at me, so don't be mad with him. You'll soon learn how it works; replies in CC

Thank you. I am struggling with this system. This is the first time I have ever participated in online discussions. I am trying to learn without causing anyone undue stress because my miss directions.

 

[Ahwatukee]

I really enjoy this conversation. Its what I live for talking about Jesus and the truth he has brought to us.

Next: According to scripture where did Abraham go when he died?

In the event of the rich man and Lazarus, we see that Lazarus was brought to Abraham's side in Sheol/Hades the area of comfort/paradise. Then we have the rich man who was also in Sheol/Hades but who was on the other side of the chasm where he was in torment in flame (Luke 16:19-31) All of the spirits of the OT saints originally went to Sheol/Hades and were taken to Heaven after the Lord's resurrection. However, the wicked continue to pour into the Hades to that place of punishment in flame where they will remain until the great white throne judgment. So to answer your question, Abraham was in Sheol/Hades, but is no longer there and is now in the presence of Christ.

 

[PERFECTION]

In the event of the rich man and Lazarus, we see that Lazarus was brought to Abraham's side in Sheol/Hades the area of comfort/paradise. Then we have the rich man who was also in Sheol/Hades but who was on the other side of the chasm where he was in torment in flame (Luke 16:19-31) All of the spirits of the OT saints originally went to Sheol/Hades and were taken to Heaven after the Lord's resurrection. However, the wicked continue to pour into the Hades to that place of punishment in flame where they will remain until the great white throne judgment. So to answer your question, Abraham was in Sheol/Hades, but is no longer there and is now in the presence of Christ.

So can agree that those who where in the " bosom of Abrham" where those who where in captivity ?

 

[Ahwatukee]

So can agree that those who where in the " bosom of Abrham" where those who where in captivity ?

Sheol/Hades has two areas. On one side was a place of comfort/paradise where Abraham, Lazarus and all the rest of the spirits of the OT saints went at the time of death. This was not a place of captivity, but a place of comfort where the spirits of the righteous went to after the death of their body waiting to be resurrected. On the other side of the chasm was/is the area where the spirits of the unrighteous dead go where they were and are in torment in flame.

Also, the place is not called "Abraham's bosom" but was Sheol/Hades. The scripture is actually saying that "the angels came and took the spirit of Lazarus to Abraham's side. Therefore, both Abraham and Lazarus, as well as the rest of the OT saints, were in Sheol/Hades in the area of comfort. I suppose you could say that the spirits of those who are in the area of torment are in captivity.

 

[PERFECTION]

Sheol/Hades has two areas. On one side was a place of comfort/paradise where Abraham, Lazarus and all the rest of the spirits of the OT saints went at the time of death. This was not a place of captivity, but a place of comfort where the spirits of the righteous went to after the death of their body waiting to be resurrected. On the other side of the chasm was/is the area where the spirits of the unrighteous dead go where they were and are in torment in flame.

Also, the place is not called "Abraham's bosom" but was Sheol/Hades. The scripture is actually saying that "the angels came and took the spirit of Lazarus to Abraham's side. Therefore, both Abraham and Lazarus, as well as the rest of the OT saints, were in Sheol/Hades in the area of comfort. I suppose you could say that the spirits of those who are in the area of torment are in captivity.

Not to belabor the point but when it comes to Abrhams bosom we have Luke 16: 22 to deal with. Nevertheless if Jesus did not come to set the captives free (past, present and future) why ? Also this resurrection you mention,the rich man saw Abraham from afar and new who he was he also called him Father Abrham. What is it thats lacking in Abrhams apperance leading you to belive he needed something different to make him complete. And what would that something be? As for me when I have finished my course, even tho this body I have been given severed the purpose of teaching me the meaning of the power of God it will return to the earth and I will rejoyce to see that day. My physical person, when it leaves this earth will (good or bad) be done forever.

I just caint figure when I am gone to be with the Lord "for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" what is left here that I want back. Thanks for your fellowship.

 

[KJV1611]

Not to belabor the point but when it comes to Abrhams bosom we have Luke 16: 22 to deal with. Nevertheless if Jesus did not come to set the captives free (past, present and future) why ? Also this resurrection you mention,the rich man saw Abraham from afar and new who he was he also called him Father Abrham. What is it thats lacking in Abrhams apperance leading you to belive he needed something different to make him complete. And what would that something be? As for me when I have finished my course, even tho this body I have been given severed the purpose of teaching me the meaning of the power of God it will return to the earth and I will rejoyce to see that day. My physical person, when it leaves this earth will (good or bad) be done forever.

I just caint figure when I am gone to be with the Lord "for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" what is left here that I want back. Thanks for your fellowship.

I don’t think Ahwatukee

So can agree that those who where in the " bosom of Abrham" where those who where in captivity ?

I don’t believe they were in captivity, I believe they were the captivity. The captivity is basically another name for the Old Testament saints.

Christ came and led captivity captive in other words when Jesus ascended he took the resurrected saints with him.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Not to belabor the point but when it comes to Abrhams bosom we have Luke 16: 22 to deal with.

My point is that, you are looking "Abraham's bosom" as a proper name for the location where the spirits of Abraham and Lazarus were. When it is referring to Lazarus being taken to Abraham's bosom, i.e. his side. The proper name of the place that they were in is Sheol/Hades, which is the place of departed spirits.

Also this resurrection you mention, the rich man saw Abraham from afar and new who he was he also called him Father Abrham. What is it thats lacking in Abrhams apperance leading you to belive he needed something different to make him complete. And what would that something be?

Sorry, but I don't know what you are referring to here. What resurrection? And what do you mean by something "lacking in Abraham's appearance?" I never said anything like that.

As for me when I have finished my course, even thou this body I have been given severed the purpose of teaching me the meaning of the power of God it will return to the earth and I will rejoyce to see that day. My physical person, when it leaves this earth will (good or bad) be done forever. I just can't figure when I am gone to be with the Lord "for to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord" what is left here that I want back. Thanks for your fellowship.

If by "My physical person" you are referring to your body, it will be resurrected, which comes from the words ana=up and histemi=to stand, properly to stand up again in the same body. Jesus is our example of the resurrection, for His body was in the tomb for 3 nights and 3 days, while His spirit was down in Sheol/Hades. After 3 days His spirit returned to His body in the tomb and stood up again in the same body, immortal and glorified. In support of this, when Jesus appeared to His disciples behind locked doors, they were frightened because they thought they had seen a spirit. Then He shows them the nail marks in His hands and feet in order to prove to them that it was Him in the same body. Then He said to them "A spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see I have." Those who have died in Christ will only remain in spirit form until the resurrection, where they will reunite with their bodies.

Likewise, not only will there be a resurrection of the righteous but of the unrighteous as well. After the millennial kingdom the great white throne judgment will take place where all of those spirits who will have died in their sins and waiting in Hades, their spirits will be released from hades and reunited with their resurrected bodies where they will be judged at the great white throne.

Believing in the body resurrection is an integral part of faith. When the Lord appears and calls up those who have died in Him, their bodies will rise being reanimated and their spirits will reunite with their resurrected bodies, immortal and glorified. Point being is that our bodies are not done forever. They do not cease to exist but will receive a heavenly upgrade.

 

[PERFECTION]

A rejection, or in Scripture's strong language, a crucifixion of the natural self is the passport to everlasting life. NOTHING, THAT HAS NOT DIED WILL BE RESURRECTED.