Revolution in Iran

[Squigglylines]

"The Destruction at the Crucifixion: Instead of the curtain of the Temple tearing in half, Jerome noted that the Hebrew version stated a massive masonry lintel (a structural beam over the door) of the Temple collapsed."

And then again you end up with prophets of old being raised from the grave three days before the firstborn of the dead(Jesus) and Joseph begat(ing) Jesus just like the Ebionites believed.

 

[SonJudgment]

Have you ever read the writings of Josephus? Why I ask is in eschatology it's actually far more damaging to preterism than supportive. Unless though one only quotes from here and there from it and disregards the rest.

Yes, and I do get your point, but literally all of history is damaging to preterism. It's more about who is a real Romaboo. But seriously be careful with Josephus he was literally a Pharisee, he literally convinced his fellow countrymen to commit suicide so that he could surrender to Rome and get rewards.

Publius Valerius Poplicola - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fun fact the US Founding Fathers that wrote the US Constitution were massive Romaboos, they knew their Plutarch and the legend of Poplicola and now USA exists, praise Jesus.

 

[HeIsHere]

Have you ever read the writings of Josephus? Why I ask is in eschatology it's actually far more damaging to preterism than supportive. Unless though one only quotes from here and there from it and disregards the rest.

Nothing damages fulfilled eschatology and the writings of Josephus are to be viewed as historical information and yes even his writings need to be checked against other observers/writers of the time period.

 

[Squigglylines]

Nothing damages fulfilled eschatology and the writings of Josephus are to be viewed as historical information and yes even his writings need to be checked against other observers/writers of the time period.

Have you ever read the writings of Josephus or just parts and peaces of it?

 

[SonJudgment]

Yes, and I do get your point, but literally all of history is damaging to preterism. It's more about who is a real Romaboo. But seriously be careful with Josephus he was literally a Pharisee, he literally convinced his fellow countrymen to commit suicide so that he could surrender to Rome and get rewards.

Publius Valerius Poplicola - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Fun fact the US Founding Fathers that wrote the US Constitution were massive Romaboos, they knew their Plutarch and the legend of Poplicola and now USA exists, praise Jesus.

I mean really it's just as simple as if preterism is true the rest of history after 70 AD shouldn't even exist....... unless Nero made that time machine of course.

 

[HeIsHere]

Have you ever read the writings of Josephus or just parts and peaces of it?

Just tell what you think denies fulfillment rather than making it about me.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Ex post factco the rapture of the Church, then comes the day of the New Covenant for the Nation Israel and the gentiles.

lulz. The new covenant God made with Israel on passover eve wasn't the new covenant made with Israel

 

[cv5]

Nothing damages fulfilled eschatology and the writings of Josephus are to be viewed as historical information and yes even his writings need to be checked against other observers/writers of the time period.

Nothing damages preterism more than the hundreds of Bible passages that remain to be fulfilled.

Act 3:21 - Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

 

[Squigglylines]

I mean really it's just as simple as if preterism is true the rest of history after 70 AD shouldn't even exist....... unless Nero made that time machine of course.

Who received the mark of the beast then? The Jews themselves are in a full blown revolt against Rome, AKA the beast, so instead of receiving it's mark and worshiping it's image their revolting against it and refusing to worship it as God. So the actions of the Jews in the years leading up to 70ad are a revolt and refusal to worship Rome and in Revelation it states the direct opposite because those who worship it's image and receive it's mark are who are destroyed at the Lords coming not those who refuse to do so.

 

[Squigglylines]

Just tell what you think denies fulfillment rather than making it about me.

In preterism you have the Jews judged in ad70 for worshiping a beast that they were revolting against. Revolt against usually means non support or refusal not bow down and worship.

 

[HeIsHere]

In preterism you have the Jews judged in ad70 for worshiping a beast that they were revolting against. Revolt against usually means non support or refusal not bow down and worship.

What specifically written by Josephus denies the partial and / or preterism?

Jesus makes clear they are judged for not accepting Him.
We look at Josephus not to usurp the words of Jesus but to give an historical account of what happened.

Now SonJudgment slanders Josephus and believes this is sufficient to discount him so he likes to operate at a superficial level and think that is adequate, however that is not how historians judge historical documents.
Accuracy is determined many different ways.

 

[SonJudgment]

What specifically written by Josephus denies the partial and / or preterism?

Jesus makes clear they are judged for not accepting Him.
We look at Josephus not to usurp the words of Jesus but to give an historical account of what happened.

Now SonJudgment slanders Josephus and believes this is sufficient to discount him so he likes to operate at a superficial level and think that is adequate, however that is not how historians judge historical documents.
Accuracy is determined many different ways.

(What's the slander against Josephus? Josephus is literally Pharisees that denied Jesus and convinced his fellow jews to commit suicide and ated like he'd join them until coincidentally he was the last one standing and then he surrendered to the Romans. Yu know why the Romans gave him the name Flavius right?)

AI Overview

Yes, according to his own account, Josephus led a desperate group of rebels during the siege of Jotapata in 67 CE. When the city fell, the trapped survivors opted for mass suicide rather than surrender. Josephus survived by negotiating a different fate. [1, 2]
Here is how the events unfolded:

• The Suicide Pact: Trapped in a cave with about 40 soldiers, the men decided to kill themselves to avoid being captured or enslaved by the Romans. [1, 2]
• Josephus's Influence: Josephus initially tried to argue against the pact using Jewish and philosophical laws, but his men threatened to kill him if he didn't cooperate. He then proposed a grim, ordered system where the men drew lots and killed each other sequentially. [1, 2, 3, 4]
• The Manipulation: Through what he called "divine providence" (though widely suspected to be deliberate manipulation of the lots), he and one other soldier were the last two left alive. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• The Surrender: Rather than killing the last man or himself, Josephus convinced his comrade to abandon the pact and surrender to the Romans. [1, 2]
• Defection to Rome: Once brought before the Roman commander Vespasian, Josephus cleverly prophesied that Vespasian would soon become emperor. The prophecy eventually came true, and Josephus was spared. He spent the rest of his life living in Rome as a patron of the Flavian emperors and writing his famous histories. [1, 2, 3]

 

[Squigglylines]

What specifically written by Josephus denies the partial and / or preterism?

Jesus makes clear they are judged for not accepting Him.
We look at Josephus not to usurp the words of Jesus but to give an historical account of what happened.

Now SonJudgment slanders Josephus and believes this is sufficient to discount him so he likes to operate at a superficial level and think that is adequate, however that is not how historians judge historical documents.
Accuracy is determined many different ways.

That's changing things a little from what we were discussing though. One is that they are judged for "not accepting him"
and the other is as in Revelation 13 and onward where we are told those who receive the mark and worship it's image are judged at his coming. So which is it that took place in ad70 were they judged for not accepting him and Rev. 13 and onward are not yet fulfilled or were they judged for worshiping the image of the beast and receiving it's mark?

 

[HeIsHere]

That's changing things a little from what we were discussing though. One is that they are judged for "not accepting him"
and the other is as in Revelation 13 and onward where we are told those who receive the mark and worship it's image are judged at his coming. So which is it that took place in ad70 were they judged for not accepting him and Rev. 13 and onward are not yet fulfilled or were they judged for worshiping the image of the beast and receiving it's mark?

How does this connect to Josephus and what you stated earlier.. not following how his account is a problem for preterism yet?

Do you have a particular passage in mind?

 

[Squigglylines]

(What's the slander against Josephus? Josephus is literally Pharisees that denied Jesus and convinced his fellow jews to commit suicide and ated like he'd join them until coincidentally he was the last one standing and then he surrendered to the Romans. Yu know why the Romans gave him the name Flavius right?)

AI Overview

Yes, according to his own account, Josephus led a desperate group of rebels during the siege of Jotapata in 67 CE. When the city fell, the trapped survivors opted for mass suicide rather than surrender. Josephus survived by negotiating a different fate. [1, 2]
Here is how the events unfolded:

• The Suicide Pact: Trapped in a cave with about 40 soldiers, the men decided to kill themselves to avoid being captured or enslaved by the Romans. [1, 2]
• Josephus's Influence: Josephus initially tried to argue against the pact using Jewish and philosophical laws, but his men threatened to kill him if he didn't cooperate. He then proposed a grim, ordered system where the men drew lots and killed each other sequentially. [1, 2, 3, 4]
• The Manipulation: Through what he called "divine providence" (though widely suspected to be deliberate manipulation of the lots), he and one other soldier were the last two left alive. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
• The Surrender: Rather than killing the last man or himself, Josephus convinced his comrade to abandon the pact and surrender to the Romans. [1, 2]
• Defection to Rome: Once brought before the Roman commander Vespasian, Josephus cleverly prophesied that Vespasian would soon become emperor. The prophecy eventually came true, and Josephus was spared. He spent the rest of his life living in Rome as a patron of the Flavian emperors and writing his famous histories. [1, 2, 3]

I see Josephus as a useful tool.

 

[Squigglylines]

How does this connect to Josephus and what you stated earlier.. not following how his account is a problem for preterism yet?

Do you have a particular passage in mind?

Josephus records that the Jews refused to worship Rome or it's Caesars as God and refused to let them set up their images in the Temples in Israel all the way up to ad70 http://penelope.uchicago.edu/josephus/war-2.html

 

[SonJudgment]

I see Josephus as a useful tool.

He has some use admittedly just like the Romans who were pagans, for example Tacitus and Suetonius (who write much more in depth about Nero and the year of Four Emperors, and the Flavian Dynasty). But you have to still keep in mind, they were actually the enemies of the early Christians. It's just a matter of the Bible is the true religion and is based in historical fact, so even the enemies of God that reject God can't help but reveal certain truths that are how we shall say inconvenient for the heretics and pagans or our time era.

 

[Squigglylines]

He has some use admittedly just like the Romans who were pagans, for example Tacitus and Suetonius (who write much more in depth about Nero and the year of Four Emperors, and the Flavian Dynasty). But you have to still keep in mind, they were actually the enemies of the early Christians. It's just a matter of the Bible is the true religion and is based in historical fact, so even the enemies of God that reject God can't help but reveal certain truths that are how we shall say inconvenient for the heretics and pagans or our time era.

If you have never read Wars 2 it's in the link above. It covers the history from 4bce up to 66ce right before the revolt began and explains the Jews view on Rome setting up it's Eagle in the Temple(chapter 10 ie must slay all of Israel first) and that they refused to see Caesar as a God.

 

[Squigglylines]

Here is the audio to it but it's 11 hours(lot of reading if you read it,lol) but it is completely the opposite of what the Jews were doing(their acts) according to preterism.

 

[SonJudgment]

If you have never read Wars 2 it's in the link above. It covers the history from 4bce up to 66ce right before the revolt began and explains the Jews view on Rome setting up it's Eagle in the Temple(chapter 10 ie must slay all of Israel first) and that they refused to see Caesar as a God.

It's been a couple decades but I've read On the Jewish Wars and Antiquities of the Jews. Frankly I didn't read Josephus until after I became a Christian and the read the whole Bible for the first time in my teens. Like most, my interest at the time in Josephus when I read him was moreso in the Testimonium Flavianum (in Antiquities). Though the Testimonium is disputed, it's still the same principle as like Tacitus testifying about certain biblical fact regarding the crucifixion and surrounding details, but you have to keep in mind Tacitus was a pagan not a Christian, and in fact he was a persecutor of the Christians. Same with Josephus was a Pharisee, he really wasn't a Christian, and he in fact is one of the most infamous traitors in all of history, but because the Bible is historically true despite what modern revionist want to pretend, certain historical facts about the Bible are corroborated even in secular history.