saved not by faith in the first place

[Abiding]

You are wrong. I do not preach another gospel. Jesus the Christ has come in the flesh.

You preach another gospel. That the Holy Spirit has abandoned us. That God only gave the Holy Spirit to the first church. That we cannot know Him in our hearts as Dear Father. And because you are unwilling to believe, to trust the love that goes beyond any understanding, that God our Father would withhold nothing from us if we but asked, you malign anyone who might trust Him fully. Along with Red and unclefester and others, who also malign myself and those who preach that God loves us enough to give us of Himself, the Holy Spirit, and welcome us into His presence as His beloved children. But I know that God loves us, I saw Jesus crucified for us, for you and me.

So what I consider your prayers and Red's prayers to be is voodoo. I ask God publicly to block any of your efforts to cause me change. He I have committed myself to, in love and trust and hope. He changes me as I grow to know Him better each day. Jesus Christ my Lord who loves me and you. More than He loved His life. And so I must love you the same, more than my life. And so I swallow my tongue when you compare me with someone demon possessed, deceived and a deceiver, the worst offender. And so I do not answer you as my heart demands, but rather in the love of Jesus Christ.

In Christ, and in His love,
vic

VW, this is false accusations! Nothing more. Kinda like taking a taking a poison berry from a child and then
having the child say you hate food and want him to starve. You continually shoot off you own foot with all your wild exagerated emotional tissies. It would seem if you were a prophet you would at least try to appear
steady and wise.

Still feeling new here this is how i see things.
Jesus said:
How can ye believe, which recieve honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?


To me there is an obvious group who have joined togather and continually taught and believed things that
caused themselves to be severed off the body. A doing of their own. sawed off the branch they were standing on. Then looks back at the unity of the body and thinks they are the gang of division causers.

See VW, to take issue with a doctrine is one thing. But to say that if someone doesnt like false prophets they are void of the HolySpirit, that they say God has left us, That we are left without truth and such is just a
cheap way of maligning the duty of each believer to test all things and speak the truth.

 

[AnandaHya]

perhaps a little research about cessationist doctrine will make you more understanding of the people who believe it. (it didn't convince me but it helped me understand my brethren) They do not deny the Holy Spirit and you can't really lump them into one big category. just like everyone claiming to be a prophet can not be lumped into being a false one. however I believe that we should act as Jesus does and allow the Holy Spirit to testify if we are His children and servants or not. going around demanding everyone "respect our prophetic utterances" is like my daughter dressed in her purple leapord costume saying she's a leapord it doesn't make it true but it sure looks cute.

anyway here are the websites again on the off chance you might actually want to learn about others instead of placing words in their mouths and telling slanderous lies about the brethren....

Cessationism Resources

‪Canal de CPRCNI‬‏ - YouTube

the one above is a discussion between a pentecostal preacher and a reform preacher. lol I tend to agree with the pentecostal preacher but they are very respectful and christian like in their discussion. I found it very interesting.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

VW, this is false accusations! Nothing more. Kinda like taking a taking a poison berry from a child and then
having the child say you hate food and want him to starve. You continually shoot off you own foot with all your wild exagerated emotional tissies. It would seem if you were a prophet you would at least try to appear
steady and wise.

Still feeling new here this is how i see things.
Jesus said:
How can ye believe, which recieve honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?


To me there is an obvious group who have joined togather and continually taught and believed things that
caused themselves to be severed off the body. A doing of their own. sawed off the branch they were standing on. Then looks back at the unity of the body and thinks they are the gang of division causers.

See VW, to take issue with a doctrine is one thing. But to say that if someone doesnt like false prophets they are void of the HolySpirit, that they say God has left us, That we are left without truth and such is just a
cheap way of maligning the duty of each believer to test all things and speak the truth.

False accusations have been tossed around for months now and you are just now taking a stand?

 

[AnandaHya]

False accusations have been tossed around for months now and you are just now taking a stand?

give him a break he just joined cc. (at least the forum and threads part)

want another cookie?

actually its breakfast time, how about one of these?

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

perhaps a little research about cessationist doctrine will make you more understanding of the people who believe it. (it didn't convince me but it helped me understand my brethren) They do not deny the Holy Spirit and you can't really lump them into one big category. just like everyone claiming to be a prophet can not be lumped into being a false one. however I believe that we should act as Jesus does and allow the Holy Spirit to testify if we are His children and servants or not. going around demanding everyone "respect our prophetic utterances" is like my daughter dressed in her purple leapord costume saying she's a leapord it doesn't make it true but it sure looks cute.

anyway here are the websites again on the off chance you might actually want to learn about others instead of placing words in their mouths and telling slanderous lies about the brethren....

Cessationism Resources

‪Canal de CPRCNI‬‏ - YouTube

The problem with Cessationism is that, while they boast to believe in the Word and the Word only (Sola Scriptura), they dismiss large portions of scripture by claiming it is no longer for today. Nowhere in the scriptures themselves will find references to such a thing occurring. Instead they choose to explain things away by creating a long gone dispensation that ended with the Apostle John. However, if you read on into the Ante Nicene period, you will find that the gifts of the Holy Spirit did indeed exist on into the 2nd and 3rd centuries after Christ's death and resurrection however, the gifts took a backseat to the overwhealming persecution that they had faced in those days. In fact, it wasn't until Augustine that the belief that the gifts of the Holy Spirit had ceased became a prominant teaching. Auigustine also introduced several other controversial ideas into the church, many of which were embraced by John Calvin during the reformation. It was the influence of Calvinism which was the launching pad for such beliefs in the modern age.

 

[FireOnTheAltar]

give him a break he just joined cc. (at least the forum and threads part)

want another cookie?

actually its breakfast time, how about one of these?

Abiding has been around long enough to know what's been going on. The only reason why he's taking a stand is because he feels there are false accusations against the side he has chosen to take his stand.

As for the above post, It seems Zone's unwillingness to control the flesh is spreading to others.

 

[VW]

VW, this is false accusations! Nothing more. Kinda like taking a taking a poison berry from a child and then
having the child say you hate food and want him to starve. You continually shoot off you own foot with all your wild exagerated emotional tissies. It would seem if you were a prophet you would at least try to appear
steady and wise.

Still feeling new here this is how i see things.
Jesus said:
How can ye believe, which recieve honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?


To me there is an obvious group who have joined togather and continually taught and believed things that
caused themselves to be severed off the body. A doing of their own. sawed off the branch they were standing on. Then looks back at the unity of the body and thinks they are the gang of division causers.

See VW, to take issue with a doctrine is one thing. But to say that if someone doesnt like false prophets they are void of the HolySpirit, that they say God has left us, That we are left without truth and such is just a
cheap way of maligning the duty of each believer to test all things and speak the truth.

Think about what calling someone a false prophet means.

Than go back and see what this person has said about me personally.

Then think about what this means to the Holy Spirit, who is very sensitive, (which you should know,) and how He feels about this doctrine and this attitude.

Maybe I am a little more like Elijah than I like to be. I don't know. But I have said the same things from the very first that I joined this group. I have not been moved by others not even a jot.

 

[Hearer]

Think about what calling someone a false prophet means.

Than go back and see what this person has said about me personally.

Then think about what this means to the Holy Spirit, who is very sensitive, (which you should know,) and how He feels about this doctrine and this attitude.

Maybe I am a little more like Elijah than I like to be. I don't know. But I have said the same things from the very first that I joined this group. I have not been moved by others not even a jot.

Well, today, (I must be sensitive too), but a feel like dracula has sucked all my blood. Or at the very least I have been run over by a truck. Or hit by a freight train. All in malice.

 

[zone]

Think about what calling someone a false prophet means.

Than go back and see what this person has said about me personally.

Then think about what this means to the Holy Spirit, who is very sensitive, (which you should know,) and how He feels about this doctrine and this attitude.

Maybe I am a little more like Elijah than I like to be. I don't know. But I have said the same things from the very first that I joined this group. I have not been moved by others not even a jot.

what DELUSION.
you're not elijah, and you're nothing like him.
unless you can call down fire on a soaking sacrifice.

no....you're more like the prophets he put to shame.

 

[zone]

Well, today, (I must be sensitive too), but a feel like dracula has sucked all my blood. Or at the very least I have been run over by a truck. Or hit by a freight train. All in malice.

when false prophets and people ignorant of the texts, unlearned in every way get rebuked they take it as a sign of confirmation in their "ministries": persecution.

and that delivered in malice.

open your eyes. you're deluded. you're not a prophet.

there are no more.

 

[Scotth1960]

Faith follows regeneration. First we have to be born again; then we receive faith as a gift. Otherwise we believe in works and our own flesh.
We are not regenerayed after developing faith but before.
Regeneration is the sovereign work pf God the Holy Spirit. We need only search for God's face, seeking and knocking and wanting a better life. Then we will receive the power to change and to have faith.
Abraham had God come to him to send him to a new country. Jacob saw Godon the staiway and was regenerated. The prophets predicted under the Spirit that we would all be given hearts of flesh having our stony hearts removed. Saul was regenerated and became Paul. Peter was faithless denying the Lord but was made the first apostle through regeneration. All received the gifts of God. The church had scattered at the crucifiixion but were regenerate at Pentecost receiving power from on high and became an unstoppable force filled with faith.

The best we can do is:

seek and ye shall find, knock and it shall be opened, ask and ye shall receive; before your faith is full and flowing enough to make you fruitful. First you have to born again, regenerated.

Dear Hearer,
More on Calvinism.
"More Contradictions "Calvin himself at times contradicted his own theories. He taught that all men "are born and live for the express purpose of learning to know God" and therefore "it is clear that all those who do not [on their own initiative] direct the whole thoughts and actions of their lives to this end fail to fulfill the law of their being." (1) Indeed, this is what the Bile says -- but it contradicts Calvinism. How could the very "law of their being" compel all mankind to seek God when they are unable to do so> It would make sense for men to be unwilling to fulfill the "law" of their being, but to be unable to do so must be blamed on the Creator and turns much of the Bible into fiction.
"Having acknowledged the fact that God made men to seek, to find, and to know Him, how could Calvin then develop the theory of Total Depravity? Would God have made all men for the very purpose of seeking after and knowing Him, as Paul plainly said on Mars' Hill (Acts 17:26-28), and at the same time neglect to provide the very grace which they need for that seeking and knowing?
"Calvin further contradicted himself and Scripture with the added argument hat when men "do think of God it is against their will; never approaching him without being dragged into his presence, and when here, instead of the voluntary fear flowing from reverence of the divine majesty, feeling only that forced and servile fear which divine judgment extorts ... which, while they dread, they at the same time also hate." (2) Calvin paints this horrible picture without any biblical warrant. No wonder he embraced the idea of Irresistible Grace. ..." (page 348: WHAT LOVE IS THIS? CALVINISM'S MISREPRESENTATION OF GOD. by Dave Hunt. (2002). Sisters, OR: Loyal Publishing.).

Notes.

1. Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, I:iii,3.

2. Calvin, Institutes of the Christian Religion, I:iv,4.

God save us all from Calvinism. Amen. In Erie PA Scott R. Harrington

July 14, 2011 AD

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Romans Ch 9 sums up what Jesus taught about the father revealing truth about Jesus and Jesus choosing whom to reveal the Father.


14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!
15 For he says to Moses,
I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.
16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.
17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?
20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

If you look at the OT passages used by paul, You would see that Calvin and those who follow this interpretation you are trying to use it to support does not fit your interpretations. This does not support the calvin "predestined, limited" atonement interpretation at all.

 

[Hearer]

when false prophets and people ignorant of the texts, unlearned in every way get rebuked they take it as a sign of confirmation in their "ministries": persecution.

and that delivered in malice.

open your eyes. you're deluded. you're not a prophet.

there are no more.

well, As I have said before, the issue is not to be a prophet. The issue is to write what will edify the generous and spur on the zealous who find they are not living the spiritual blessings promised especially in Malachi, which spoke clearly of the receiving of the healing presnce of Jesus in your life.


Malachi 42 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

then do you tithe the full tithe? Are you generous to God? Are you generous to your spouse? Do you fear the Father of Jesus Christ?

a simple yes to each will do, as you say.

Do you tithe the full tithe? 10 % of everything you own, Including land, food, time etc etc, and give it to the levites? Which is what the tithe is, "basically a jewish income tax but not all monetary) The tithe was never a money thing. Many in the church use this to try to get people to give 10 % of their wages, which was never intended, another misinterpretation of OT theology in order to guilt people into giving money.

 

[zone]

well, As I have said before, the issue is not to be a prophet. The issue is to write what will edify the generous and spur on the zealous who find they are not living the spiritual blessings promised especially in Malachi, which spoke clearly of the receiving of the healing presnce of Jesus in your life.

Malachi 42 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings. And you will go out and leap like calves released from the stall.

the issue is that you have not only claimed to be a prophet, you have been quite detailed in the doctrines of the NAR, and its agenda for the church.
this is a foreign entity, does not belong to Christianity and is a parasite and disease in our church.

nothing you say will do anything. preach the word only.
let the Holy Spirit do His job.
but your flesh doesn't like that idea.

 

[Hearer]

Do you tithe the full tithe? 10 % of everything you own, Including land, food, time etc etc, and give it to the levites? Which is what the tithe is, "basically a jewish income tax but not all monetary) The tithe was never a money thing. Many in the church use this to try to get people to give 10 % of their wages, which was never intended, another misinterpretation of OT theology in order to guilt people into giving money.

the issue is whether God is robbed not whether you give the money to the church. Besides, the issue is also generosity. Jesus taught against using the tithe as an excuse for not giving money to your needy relatives (parents in particular, but I am sure it is relevant to anyone in your family who is needy.

Paul's teaching about the macedonians gift was also to inllustrate that we who receive freely God's mercy should give freely.

So the issue boils down to generosity, not tithing, especially that generosity means that you are not robbing God. Forget about levites if you choose, but do not rob God by not being generous.

Too many people store up wealth for themselves.

 

[Scotth1960]

If you look at the OT passages used by paul, You would see that Calvin and those who follow this interpretation you are trying to use it to support does not fit your interpretations. This does not support the calvin "predestined, limited" atonement interpretation at all.

What are you saying, eternally gratefull? I am not trying to use an interpretation to follow Calvin. Are you saying that? Calvinism is proved false by one verse, 2 Peter 3:9. Which says God wills all people to be saved. If God willed only the elect to be saved, He would not have said He wills that all should be saved in 2 Peter 3:9. Of course universalism is not taught by Scripture. To be saved, a person must believe (Mark 16:16). Since not all actually believe, not all will necessarily be saved. It's all up to God. God says "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy". But He wills to have mercy on all (2 Peter 3:9). He offers salvation to all; not all accept His offer.
In Erie PA Scott Harrington

 

[Scotth1960]

If you look at the OT passages used by paul, You would see that Calvin and those who follow this interpretation you are trying to use it to support does not fit your interpretations. This does not support the calvin "predestined, limited" atonement interpretation at all.

Dear eternallygratfull, You and I may disagree on some things, but one thing, thank God, we agree on: Calvinism is not the gospel. Neither you and I support the limited atonement, double predestination theories of John Calvin. Take care. In Erie Scott H.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

VW, this is false accusations! Nothing more. Kinda like taking a taking a poison berry from a child and then
having the child say you hate food and want him to starve. You continually shoot off you own foot with all your wild exagerated emotional tissies. It would seem if you were a prophet you would at least try to appear
steady and wise.

Still feeling new here this is how i see things.
Jesus said:
How can ye believe, which recieve honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?


To me there is an obvious group who have joined togather and continually taught and believed things that
caused themselves to be severed off the body. A doing of their own. sawed off the branch they were standing on. Then looks back at the unity of the body and thinks they are the gang of division causers.

See VW, to take issue with a doctrine is one thing. But to say that if someone doesnt like false prophets they are void of the HolySpirit, that they say God has left us, That we are left without truth and such is just a
cheap way of maligning the duty of each believer to test all things and speak the truth.

Thats a way to test the spirit!

I do think God can soeak to some people. But not in a way it was done back before scripture was completed and the church was established.

I do know a few things.

1. Everyone wants to be the "big" person on the block (prophet, pastor teacher tongues etc) Yet God said the body is one. that Christ is the head, and the janitor is just as important as the one who teaches (take the big toe away and see how much you realise you really need it) it is just not as "glamorous" so no one wants the job.

2. The HS would not say anything to anyone which contradicts, or supercedes his holy scripture he personally wrote.'

3. The HS is not going to "walk away" from the church just because it doen't believe in prophets. This is ridiculous. The church is not about prophets, it is about rescuing people out of satan's domain, and building up its members and equipping them to do the above, and growing in Christ personally. to be a light unto the world.

4. That is the last day (which we are in) there will be many false prophets claiming to be from God, But are in reality of their father satan!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

the issue is whether God is robbed not whether you give the money to the church. Besides, the issue is also generosity. Jesus taught against using the tithe as an excuse for not giving money to your needy relatives (parents in particular, but I am sure it is relevant to anyone in your family who is needy.

Paul's teaching about the macedonians gift was also to inllustrate that we who receive freely God's mercy should give freely.

So the issue boils down to generosity, not tithing, especially that generosity means that you are not robbing God. Forget about levites if you choose, but do not rob God by not being generous.

Too many people store up wealth for themselves.

either way, the church was never commanded to give a tithe. Your right, we should give generously. The money and things we have are not ours, they are given by God. But people who yell because someone does not tithe, and the "Health and wealth" Doctrines we have going around today are not from God. I have personally known people who have gone bankrupt because they are guilted into tithing. God does not like, nor is he blessed when people see us not giving to ceasar what is ceasars only because some church is demanding we tithe so God will bless us tenfold, or to tithe or we do not truswt God or whatever reason. It is a lie. And gives God a bad name!