Seventh Day Adventist

[Laura798]

I think that there are some people that ended up with the SDA that have been misled by a seeming 'truth', and may be saved. However, I also believe that if one is saved, then the Holy Ghost would guide them to see the truth about the SDA church. However, I do believe that most SDA members are unsaved, because they teach a works-based salvation. I regularly share the gospel with strangers, and most times that I've encountered an Seventh-Day Adventist, the conversation has initially gone down to whether we are saved by our faith or our works.
It can be deceiving because they will start out by giving all the right answers. However, I have found that as you dig deeper you find more and more unbiblical and strange beliefs. Their strongest and most fiercely defended is the Sabbath. They believe that those who do not worship on Sabbath (basically anyone who worships on Sunday) has the mark of the beast on them and cannot be saved.

https://www.bible.ca/7-mark-beast.htm

They also believe that Jesus died for all sins EXCEPT for not keeping the Sabbath. This is a heresy, because the bible clearly states that Jesus died for ALL the sins of the world (My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2).

The saddest thing about the SDA church is that they seem to be so zealous about God's commandments and following Him, when they are only leading people away from God and bringing themselves down as well.

Here is the SDA Statement of Faith. https://www.adventist.org/beliefs/

"Salvation is all of grace and not of works, and its fruit is obedience to the Commandments."--from SDA Statement of Faith

As I said before I wouldn't consider joining a 7th Day Adventist church because they overemphasize the Sabbath in a legalistic way, though now that I have begun to study it I can find no reason why we don't honor it as we do the other 10 commandments in as far as resting and remember God's completed work of Creation. It is also pointing to Christ's finished work on the cross. Additionally, to the final Sabbath rest when we go to be with the Lord at the end of the age. Satan used the Roman Catholic Church to change the Sabbath to Sunday--why? This is something I want to look into further.

Please see my other post regarding this. The other problem I have is Ellen G. White--the bible says if a prophet speaks something that not does not come to pass do not listen to them.

As to the Holy Spirit revealing to people in the SDA the 'Truth'--well that could be said of believers in all denominations--there are so many false doctrines n our mainstream churches--what about them? Why doesn't the Holy Spirit reveal truth to them?

The sad thing is all denominations have false doctrine mixed with the truth. All.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

After seeing four were missing I looked it up and found this article:

Why did Christ mention only six of the Ten Commandments, in Matthew 19:16-19?
Does this mean the others were done away? No! King David said, “all of His commandments are sure. They stand fast forever and ever…” (Psa. 111:7-8). Christ, as God of the Old Testament (I Cor. 10:4), also stated, “I am the Lord, I change not” (Mal. 3:6).
Because Christ was speaking to a Jew, he had to clarify of which commandments he was speaking. By citing some of the Ten Commandments, He clarified that He was speaking about God’s commands, not the commands of the Sanhedrin (the Jewish “Supreme Court”).
To clarify this further, look at which commandments He did state: “You shall do no murder, You shall not commit adultery, You shall not steal, You shall not bear false witness, Honor your father and your mother: and, You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Christ wanted to reassert to the listener the importance of loving his neighbor (Matt. 19:22). The rich man’s refusal to use his wealth to help others proved that he needed a lesson in these principles.
One should also note the commandments that Christ did not directly mention: “You shall have no other gods before me…You shall not make unto you any graven image…You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain…Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy…You shall not covet…” (Ex. 20:3-8, 17).
Because Christ did not directly refer to these commandments, is it alright to break them? For instance, is it acceptable to worship other gods? To swear, break the Sabbath or covet? The answer: of course not!

Let us remember though the true meaning of the parable. It was not about the rich young ruler achieving perfection as Jesus pointed out he was still not upholding up the law. He instead should of put his faith in Jesus.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Is observing the Sabbath a matter of salvation?

It is if legalistically you do not obey and observe it on Saturday according the the doctrine of Ellen White the SDA prophet.

 

[Duckybill]

Colossians 2:16 (NKJV)
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,

Amen Jesus! I won't.

 

[Laura798]

Again where is the command repeated in the NT?

Romans 14:5 speaks on sacred days. Is the Sabbath sacred?

This is not about obeying as we are given commands in a none legalistic sense which you agree.

We are in that final sabbath rest. For the redeemed we are in that rest as we are sealed for what is to come.

Why would it need to be repeated? Do you not believe we need to keep the commandments as Jesus commanded us to do ?

Only 6 of the 10 Commandments are mentioned in the conversation with the rich young man-does that mean since the other 4 aren't mentioned we don't need to keep them?

Do you not understand the meaning --that the 10--Ten --there were T-E-N Commandments that God wrote with His OWN FINGER IN STONE. This is into perpetuity.

We are not in the final rest--that is still to come when we receive eternal life and enter God's heavenly kingdom.

Read Acts and see that believers both Jews and Greeks met on the Sabbath 'as was their custom'--this was the large weekly assembly in the synagogues--they were also meeting daily together. There is no mention of the first day of the week, with exception of Paul noting one particular meeting that happened to be on the first day of the week, not that this was any sort of custom.

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

1 John 2:3
By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.

 

[TabinRivCA]

It is if legalistically you do not obey and observe it on Saturday according the the doctrine of Ellen White the SDA prophet.

I think just as the Catholics have dropped some traditions as opposed to Doctrine and general Christianity where some still hold women can't preach in Church, so have the SDA's .

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Here is the SDA Statement of Faith. https://www.adventist.org/beliefs/

"Salvation is all of grace and not of works, and its fruit is obedience to the Commandments."--from SDA Statement of Faith

As I said before I wouldn't consider joining a 7th Day Adventist church because they overemphasize the Sabbath in a legalistic way, though now that I have begun to study it I can find no reason why we don't honor it as we do the other 10 commandments in as far as resting and remember God's completed work of Creation. It is also pointing to Christ's finished work on the cross. Additionally, to the final Sabbath rest when we go to be with the Lord at the end of the age. Satan used the Roman Catholic Church to change the Sabbath to Sunday--why? This is something I want to look into further.

Please see my other post regarding this. The other problem I have is Ellen G. White--the bible says if a prophet speaks something that not does not come to pass do not listen to them.

As to the Holy Spirit revealing to people in the SDA the 'Truth'--well that could be said of believers in all denominations--there are so many false doctrines n our mainstream churches--what about them? Why doesn't the Holy Spirit reveal truth to them?

The sad thing is all denominations have false doctrine mixed with the truth. All.

Salvation is all of grace and not of works, and its fruit is obedience to the Commandments."--from SDA Statement of Faith

Its fruit is obedience to the commandments. What fruit? Salvation?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Why would it need to be repeated? Do you not believe we need to keep the commandments as Jesus commanded us to do ?

Only 6 of the 10 Commandments are mentioned in the conversation with the rich young man-does that mean since the other 4 aren't mentioned we don't need to keep them?

Do you not understand the meaning --that the 10--Ten --there were T-E-N Commandments that God wrote with His OWN FINGER IN STONE. This is into perpetuity.

We are not in the final rest--that is still to come when we receive eternal life and enter God's heavenly kingdom.

Read Acts and see that believers both Jews and Greeks met on the Sabbath 'as was their custom'--this was the large weekly assembly in the synagogues--they were also meeting daily together. There is no mention of the first day of the week, with exception of Paul noting one particular meeting that happened to be on the first day of the week, not that this was any sort of custom.

John 14:21
Whoever has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me. The one who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and reveal Myself to him."

John 15:10
If you keep My commandments, you will remain in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and remain in His love.

1 John 2:3
By this we can be sure that we have come to know Him: if we keep His commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6
And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the very commandment you have heard from the beginning, that you must walk in love.

Which commandments then? The Leviticus laws as well that are not repeated in the NT?

We are under a new covenant. New commands.

 

[Roughsoul1991]

I think just as the Catholics have dropped some traditions as opposed to Doctrine and general Christianity where some still hold women can't preach in Church, so have the SDA's .

Oh im sure. We are just looking at the foundation. In fact they are fighting within about that same topic. Kinda strange since Ellen White was a women.

 

[Gardenias]

2Cor.11:4 And no marvel for Satan himself comes transformed as an angel of light.

 

[Laura798]

Its fruit is obedience to the commandments. What fruit? Salvation?

the tree is salvation--the fruit is obedience--Jesus said if we love Him we will keep his commandments.

I agree with this. They hold to the main tenants of the faith--they like many other denominations--have swung too far over to legalism--and of course Ellen G. White is a blemish and stumbling block. However, the nondenominationals have swung too far to the

"We're not under the law--we don't need to keep the commandments (even if Jesus said so) We can pretty much do whatever we want' Peace Love, Groovy--it's all about grace man--chill..."

James 2:14-26

14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."

 

[Duckybill]

2Cor.11:4 And no marvel for Satan himself comes transformed as an angel of light.

And preaching the Law of Moses to Christians!

 

[Roughsoul1991]

the tree is salvation--the fruit is obedience--Jesus said if we love Him we will keep his commandments.

I agree with this. They hold to the main tenants of the faith--they like many other denominations--have swung too far over to legalism--and of course Ellen G. White is a blemish and stumbling block. However, the nondenominationals have swung too far to the

"We're not under the law--we don't need to keep the commandments (even if Jesus said so) We can pretty much do whatever we want' Peace Love, Groovy--it's all about grace man--chill..."

"
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without [a]your works, and I will show you my faith by [b]my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is [c]dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made [d]perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was [e]accounted to him for righteousness.” And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also."--James 2:14-26

If we love Jesus then which command is told that sums up all commands?

The great conspiracy speaks on the Sabbath in a legalistic sense as all who do not as my grandfather's letter said will be those who gain the mark of the beast.

 

[Laura798]

Which commandments then? The Leviticus laws as well that are not repeated in the NT?

We are under a new covenant. New commands.

Of course we are not under the Mosaic [Levitical] Law--only the 10 Commandments were written in Stone by the hand of God--the Mosaic Law was written by Moses for the Israelites. So you don't believe we should listen to Jesus himself when He says we are to keep His commandments?


Btw, did you know Saturday is called the Sabbath in over 100 languages?

 

[Laura798]

If we love Jesus then which command is told that sums up all commands?

The great conspiracy speaks on the Sabbath in a legalistic sense as all who do not as my grandfather's letter said will be those who gain the mark of the beast.

I guess you haven't read my other posts--I'm not defending SDA, I'm defending the Sabbath being one of the 10 commandments--yes I know SDA's and other Sabbath Keepers are legalistic about it. That's not the same as simply saying we are to Honor it as it is one of the 10 commandments--as Jesus said, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath."

 

[Laura798]

According to this website there are 10 Adventist denominations--just like Baptists and Presbyterians they have their varying beliefs:

The new edition lists 10 denominations under the Adventist category, as compared to 8 Methodist denominations, 12 Lutheran denominations, 11 Mennonite and Anabaptist denominations, 26 Baptist denominations, 28 Pentecostal groups and so on. All together it provides concise descriptions and histories of more than 200 denominations that are generally defined as Christian. It does not discuss Judaism, Islam, Buddhist, Hindu or other faiths related to world religions that are not historically considered part of Christianity.

The 10 Adventist denominations include two relatively large ones, each with more than a million adherents in the United States and eight small ones that total only 107,000 members all together. These eight small Adventist denominations you may have never heard of. More about the two biggies later.

The Advent Christian Church grew out of the William Miller movement in the 1840s and has about 22,000 members in 270 congregations. It has no creed, but preserves the pacificist position and Sunday worship practice that was common among Millerites. It rejected the ministry of Ellen White and the theological ideas of early Seventh-day Adventists, but has a shared view of the “state of the dead.” It has a congregational organization and maintains affiliations with Aurora University and Berkshire Christian College.

The Christadelphians are both Adventist and Unitarian in theology with roots in the Disciples of Christ, and have 15,000 members in 170 congregations. In 1844, John Thomas launched a “return to primitive Christianity” which was pacifist, congregational in structure, had an inerrant view of Scripture and rejected the doctrine of the Trinity. They have no clergy and women are not permitted to speak or pray publicly or participate in meetings of elders. They have no associations or headquarters.

The Church of God (Seventh Day) is a Sabbath-keeping denomination that formed in 1858-63 as the Seventh-day Adventist denomination was getting organized, largely around the issue of rejecting the role of Ellen White. Its headquarters is in Denver and it is affiliated with Lifespring School of Ministry. It has about 11,000 members in 200 congregations.

The Church of God and Saints of Christ is a historically African-American, Sabbath-keeping denomination that seeks to live a literal understanding of the Old Testament. It now has some 40,000 members in 50 congregations and was begun by William S. Crowdy who was born to slave parents, served in the Union Army during the American Civil War, and was a Baptist layman when he began to have visions in 1893. The organization is episcopal and its headquarters is in Cleveland.

The Church of God General Conference is an odd-lot collection of groups that have a variety of backgrounds, including several connections with the Advent movement of the 1840s. The current organization was actually formed in 1921 and has about 4,000 members in 84 congregations. It is sometimes called the church of Abrahamic faith, reads Scripture very literally, is Arian in theology, and shares with the Seventh-day Adventist denomination the teaching on the “the state of the dead.” The structure is congregational and affiliated with Atlanta Bible College.

Grace Communion International is the denomination that has emerged from the Worldwide Church of God after the death of Herbert W. Armstrong. He was a member of the Church of God (Seventh Day)–see above–when he started the Radio Church of God in 1934. He taught the seventh-day Sabbath and other Adventist ideas and the members were tied directly to the denominational headquarters. It grew rapidly from 1964 to 1974, but then conflict surfaced as local groups formed and Armstrong’s son took members with him into a splinter group when he was disfellowshiped, allegedly for adultery. Armstrong died in 1986 when the denomination had 120,000 members. Over time it repudiated many of its teachings, a number of local groups joined other denominations and splinter groups formed. It has become a conventional Evangelical denomination and currently has about 11,000 members in 300 congregations. Some congregations, wishing to retain the Sabbath, have joined the Seventh-day Adventist denomination.

The Philadelphia Church of God broke off from the Worldwide Church of God in 1989. It has about 5,000 members in 100 congregations. It is a Sabbath-keeping denomination and pacifist in principle, and teaches “the state of the dead” in a manner similar to Seventh-day Adventists. It holds to the traditional teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong.

The United Church of God is the largest denomination that still holds to the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong. It has about 14,000 members in 200 congregations, it is strongly Adventist, and continues to teach British Israelism, Armstrong’s unique theology. Headquarters are in Cincinnati

https://atoday.org/adventist-denominations-the-larger-picture/

 

[mailmandan]

This is very odd-

Indeed. Seventh-day Adventists teach the following regarding the Investigative Judgment:

1. Christ moved from the Holy Place to the Most Holy Place in the heavenly sanctuary on October 22, 1844, and began a new phase of ministry. This ministry was foreshadowed by the Levitical Day of Atonement (Lev. 16:16-33).

2. The first phase of the "Day of Atonement" is called the "cleansing of the Sanctuary." It involves a pre-Advent investigation and judging of God's people to determine whose sins will be removed from the Sanctuary. Christ started this judgment in 1844, beginning with Adam and Eve and progressing chronologically down through the ages, judging all of the dead believers. At some point, near the end of time, Christ will begin judging living believers. During this Investigative Judgment God either blots out the sins of the believer, or he removes the name of the believer from the Book of Life.

As during the typical Day of Atonement the cleansing of the earthly sanctuary removed the sins accumulated there, so the heavenly sanctuary is cleansed by the final removal of the record of sins in the heavenly books. But before the records are finally cleared, they will be examined to determine who through repentance and faith in Christ is entitled to enter His eternal kingdom. The cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary, therefore involves a work of investigation or judgment that reflects the nature of the Day of Atonement as a day of judgment. This judgment, which ratifies the decision as to who will be saved and who will be lost...1​

​

3. Whenever one of God's followers commits a sin and asks foregiveness from God, that sin is transferred into the Most Holy Place of the heavenly Sanctuary. It remains there, in the Sanctuary, until the Investigative Judgment is completed. At the end of time, all the sins of the righteous are transferred from the Sanctuary onto the Scapegoat, who is Satan. Satan then suffers the final punishment for his sins and all the sins of the righteous.

https://www.nonsda.org/study4.shtml

Seventh-day Adventists also teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

https://www.nonsda.org/study8.shtml

Statements made by Ellen G White:

“Here we find the mark of the beast. The very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, on the part of the Catholic church, without any authority from the Bible.” (Ellen G. White, The Mark of the Beast, page 23).

“The Sunday Sabbath is purely a child of the Papacy. It is the mark of the beast.” (Advent Review, Vol. I, No. 2, August, 1850).

“The change of the Sabbath is the sign or mark of the authority of the Romish church.” ... “The keeping of the counterfeit Sabbath is the reception of the mark.” (Ellen G. White, Great Controversy, Vol. 4, page 281).

But if we turn aside from the fourth commandment, so positively given by God, to adopt the inventions of Satan, voiced and acted by men under his control, we cannot be saved. We cannot with safety receive his traditions and subtleties as truth. {RH, July 6, 1897 par. 4}

 

[mailmandan]

I will never forget a conversation I once had with a previous member of Christian Chat who happens to be SDA and was banned back in 2017. He made this statement to me below which demonstrates that he teaches, "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works." (Galatians 1:6-9)

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

 

[tourist]

The Bible? Objective at heart but subjective by the actions of humans.

If it were the bible there would not be a need for the BDF. There are always opposing views and conflicts arise. I see a lot of SDA and Catholic bashing threads saying nobody that is affiliated with them is saved because of certain perceived conflicts with doctrine '/ practices with scripture and rarely see any other denomination subject to such scrutiny. I have stated more than once that I believe that every perceived Christian denomination has certain flaws.

 

[tourist]

We don't consider it legalism to keep the rest of the 9 commandments--if you see my other posts--I only began studying the Sabbath recently--I was reading over the Commandments and wondered why we believe we must keep all of them--except honoring the Sabbath.

"“Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it."

The thing about the 4th commandment is that this is the only one with the instruction to 'remember'. That is a key word in that commandment. The Sabbath is a complex subject for me to understand as it involves much more than just no working on Saturday. Maybe it doesn't apply any more, sure, that would be most convenient as it would no longer cramp my style. Still, there is that word 'remember'. For the record, I am unsure whether or not it applies but leaning towards the position that it does. In either case I don't adhere to it. Perhaps that's to my detriment. God should have just written that one commandment on a separate tablet and state explicitly who it applies to and a clear expiration date. Yeah, then I would be all set. No worries. I would just forget about it.