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sassylady
Guest
I was reading Jonah one day and after the fish swallowed him he said in 2:8 They that observe lying vanities forsake their own mercy
Share a Lesser-Known Biblical Gem!
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For some reason I suddenly get the feeling I'm not old enough to be in this thread...
Or maybe I just don't have a strong enough stomach.
this!!! it's just so... detailed! lol!!!
So Ehud came to him (now he was sitting upstairs in his cool private chamber). Then Ehud said, “I have a message from God for you.” So he arose from his seat. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then Ehud reached with his left hand, took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the hilt went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not draw the dagger out of his belly; and his entrails came out. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Then Ehud went out through the porch and shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them. [SUP]24 [/SUP]When he had gone out, Eglon’s[SUP][b][/SUP] servants came to look, and to their surprise, the doors of the upper room were locked. So they said, “He is probably attending to his needs in the cool chamber.” [SUP]25 [/SUP]So they waited till they were embarrassed, and still he had not opened the doors of the upper room. Therefore they took the key and opened them. And there was their master, fallen dead on the floor. Judges 3
So Ehud came to him (now he was sitting upstairs in his cool private chamber). Then Ehud said, “I have a message from God for you.” So he arose from his seat. [SUP]21 [/SUP]Then Ehud reached with his left hand, took the dagger from his right thigh, and thrust it into his belly. [SUP]22 [/SUP]Even the hilt went in after the blade, and the fat closed over the blade, for he did not draw the dagger out of his belly; and his entrails came out. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Then Ehud went out through the porch and shut the doors of the upper room behind him and locked them. [SUP]24 [/SUP]When he had gone out, Eglon’s[SUP][b][/SUP] servants came to look, and to their surprise, the doors of the upper room were locked. So they said, “He is probably attending to his needs in the cool chamber.” [SUP]25 [/SUP]So they waited till they were embarrassed, and still he had not opened the doors of the upper room. Therefore they took the key and opened them. And there was their master, fallen dead on the floor. Judges 3
I always get a kick out of people (whether on this forum or in real life) who like to present themselves as experts in the Word, so you ask them about the kinds of stories Willie referenced here, and they're like, "HUH? That's not really in the Bible!"
It always makes one want to ask, "Um, you've actually READ the Bible... haven't you?" I don't mean that as a criticism AT ALL of anyone who hasn't read the entire Bible, but rather as a "Things That Make You Go Hmmm..." when considering who to listen to when they claim to be some kind of "teacher". Now, I am by no means NO expert AT ALL but I always love asking those who assert authority with no credentials about the lesser-known parts of the Bible whenever possible.
One of my favorite segments that always makes people gasp is Ezekiel 23. It would probably receive at PG-13 rating, so I probably shouldn't spell it out here.
Basically, it compares the spiritual idolatry of Israel and Judah to a pair of sisters who allow their bodies to be used for prostitution and who lust after lovers whose physical qualities are... Well, the comparison is with horses and donkeys.
And this is GOD speaking, these words, not another writer. Let's just say, God doesn't pull any punches and yes, depending on what version you read (I'm currently reading The Apologetics Study Bible), it's extremely shocking to the average prim and proper Christian.
I think the fact that God dressed Israel up in jewels and fine clothes escapes a lot of people when they try so hard to condemn women doing their hair or wearing jewelry or make up. God decked out Israel because He loved her.
Ezekiel 16:6“ ‘Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!”[SUP]a[/SUP]7I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked.8“ ‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine.9“ ‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put sandals of fine leather on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. 11I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, 12and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. 13So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. 14And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign Lord.
Ezekiel 16:6“ ‘Then I passed by and saw you kicking about in your blood, and as you lay there in your blood I said to you, “Live!”[SUP]a[/SUP]7I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked.8“ ‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine.9“ ‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put sandals of fine leather on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments. 11I adorned you with jewelry: I put bracelets on your arms and a necklace around your neck, 12and I put a ring on your nose, earrings on your ears and a beautiful crown on your head. 13So you were adorned with gold and silver; your clothes were of fine linen and costly fabric and embroidered cloth. Your food was honey, olive oil and the finest flour. You became very beautiful and rose to be a queen. 14And your fame spread among the nations on account of your beauty, because the splendor I had given you made your beauty perfect, declares the Sovereign Lord.
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Tintin
Guest
This was one of my absolute favourite Bible adventures as a child. And as an adult. Not only did I love the gore and toilet humour, I loved the fact that it was a left-handed man of God who assassinated the evil king (I'm also left-handed). Love it!
i can't help but to laugh when i think about how the soldiers felt after they found the king.
"dude, he's been in there for a long time."
"well... i guess it's ok to check. right?"
[unlock door]
"oops."
[side note: this is how i imagine it. it's funny to me. lol]
R
Rush
Guest
Being an awesome mum being is recognised by Paul in his list of awesome people at the end of Romans 
Romans 16:13 Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
Romans 16:13 Greet Rufus, chosen in the Lord, and his mother, who has been a mother to me, too.
Did you know that childbirth in Bible times ws so different from what we do and know now? I have to dig passages but this paragraph from a natural childbirth book first published in '64:
Samuel Zwener, an early missionary to the Arabs, says that Arab women didn’t have painful deliveries until after their society had been adversely affected by Western culture. Even when trekking across the desert, an ‘Arab woman simply dropped behind the caravan when her labor began. After giving birth to her infant…she would walk (sometimes for many hours) to overtake the caravan, carrying her baby. The experiences of the Heb. Women of the Pentateuch were surely similar to these, since they were of the same Semitic origin and culture.'
The Joy of Natural Childbirth by Helen Wessel — Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists
Samuel Zwener, an early missionary to the Arabs, says that Arab women didn’t have painful deliveries until after their society had been adversely affected by Western culture. Even when trekking across the desert, an ‘Arab woman simply dropped behind the caravan when her labor began. After giving birth to her infant…she would walk (sometimes for many hours) to overtake the caravan, carrying her baby. The experiences of the Heb. Women of the Pentateuch were surely similar to these, since they were of the same Semitic origin and culture.'
The Joy of Natural Childbirth by Helen Wessel — Reviews, Discussion, Bookclubs, Lists
T
Tintin
Guest
This isn't little-known, but it's a biblical gem and still mind-blowing (at least to me):
Regarding, Samson the judge of Israel:
Then the Philistines came up and encamped in Judah and made a raid on Lehi. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the men of Judah said, “Why have you come up against us?” They said, “We have come up to bind Samson, to do to him as he did to us.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then 3,000 men of Judah went down to the cleft of the rock of Etam, and said to Samson, “Do you not know that the Philistines are rulers over us? What then is this that you have done to us?” And he said to them, “As they did to me, so have I done to them.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]And they said to him, “We have come down to bind you, that we may give you into the hands of the Philistines.” And Samson said to them, “Swear to me that you will not attack me yourselves.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]They said to him, “No; we will only bind you and give you into their hands. We will surely not kill you.” So they bound him with two new ropes and brought him up from the rock. [SUP]14 [/SUP]When he came to Lehi, the Philistines came shouting to meet him. Then the Spirit of the Lord rushed upon him, and the ropes that were on his arms became as flax that has caught fire, and his bonds melted off his hands. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And he found a fresh jawbone of a donkey, and put out his hand and took it, and with it he struck 1,000 men. [SUP]
16[/SUP]And Samson said,
“With the jawbone of a donkey,
heaps upon heaps,
with the jawbone of a donkey
have I struck down a thousand men.”
[SUP]17 [/SUP]As soon as he had finished speaking, he threw away the jawbone out of his hand. And that place was called Ramath-lehi.
Judges 15:9-17
That's a lot of men!
Regarding, Samson the judge of Israel:
Then the Philistines came up and encamped in Judah and made a raid on Lehi. [SUP]10 [/SUP]And the men of Judah said, “Why have you come up against us?” They said, “We have come up to bind Samson, to do to him as he did to us.” [SUP]11 [/SUP]Then 3,000 men of Judah went down to the cleft of the rock of Etam, and said to Samson, “Do you not know that the Philistines are rulers over us? What then is this that you have done to us?” And he said to them, “As they did to me, so have I done to them.” [SUP]12 [/SUP]And they said to him, “We have come down to bind you, that we may give you into the hands of the Philistines.” And Samson said to them, “Swear to me that you will not attack me yourselves.” [SUP]13 [/SUP]They said to him, “No; we will only bind you and give you into their hands. We will surely not kill you.” So they bound him with two new ropes and brought him up from the rock. [SUP]14 [/SUP]When he came to Lehi, the Philistines came shouting to meet him. Then the Spirit of the Lord rushed upon him, and the ropes that were on his arms became as flax that has caught fire, and his bonds melted off his hands. [SUP]15 [/SUP]And he found a fresh jawbone of a donkey, and put out his hand and took it, and with it he struck 1,000 men. [SUP]
16[/SUP]And Samson said,
“With the jawbone of a donkey,
heaps upon heaps,
with the jawbone of a donkey
have I struck down a thousand men.”
[SUP]17 [/SUP]As soon as he had finished speaking, he threw away the jawbone out of his hand. And that place was called Ramath-lehi.
Judges 15:9-17
That's a lot of men!
I cannot discuss much, and posts abt this mostly copied/excerpted from the above book, wc incidentally taking more time to type bec. there is no online copy.
Chap. 6, p/53
You feel pain in labor when the muscles of the abdominal wall are kept tense while the uterus is rising during contractions. When a mother does this-- usually w/o realizing she is doing it, the aching in these muscles increases with each contraction and soon spreads throughout the muscles of the pelvic area, making them ache, across the muscles of the lower back and hips, and even down into the thighs, so she literally 'aches all over' during labor, with increasing intensity...But if u learn to relax properly, letting all ur muscles become 'limp,' this brings miraculous relief, no matter how intense the contractions...
Indonesian women would just leave their work in the fields for an hour or so to bear their child, and shortly afterwards would be back at work again..they accept childbirth as a perfectly normal process.
Sarah, bearing a child when she was an old, old woman, who yet said, God hath made me to laugh, so that all that hear will laugh with me. (Gen. 21.6)
Margaret Mead, the anthropologist, says majority of women suffer severe pain in childbirth, or accept giving birth matter of factly, depending on the culture in which they live. She says that pain, when it occurs, isn’t due to the physiological birth process, but to the attitudes toward birth which a woman has ‘learned’ from her culture… it is perhaps not without significance that in those Polynesian societies where the male participates in his wife’s delivery as a husband… there is an extremely simple, uncomplicated attitude towards birth; the women don’t scream, but instead work…
There is nothing (in the Bible) which says that women are meant to suffer pain when they bear a child.
Incidentally it is we mothers who can really promote natural childbirth.
I know not many believe-- or understand that birth of a child can be 'simple' but even Dr. Dick-Read, British obstetrician and advocate of natural childbirth in the Preface of Wessel's book:
Dr. Grantly Dick-Read said, I am making a big effort to have the prayer book of the English Church changed. Their service for the Churching Woman, which is ostensievly to give thanks for the birth of a child, is one of the most heretical misinterpretations of truth I have ever read, and it offends me when women come to me and say, Yes, I went to Church, but didn’t repeat the service because it wasn’t true…
Here are some quotes from the good doctor:
Grantly Dick-Read Quotes (Author of Childbirth without Fear)
“It is as great a crime to leave a woman alone in her agony and deny her relief
from her suffering as it is to insist upon dulling the consciousness of a
natural mother who desires above all things to be aware of the final reward of
her efforts, whose ambition is to be present, in full possession of her senses,
when the infant she already adores greets her with its first loud cry and the
soft touch of its restless body upon her limbs.”
“I emphasize this because some of my colleagues, for whose academic attainments
I have great respect, argue" 'You assume too much; this is not proved; this is
not strictly scientific. We disagree with your neurology and your psychiatry is
misleading, therefore you must be wrong.' My reply has been, with all humility:
'Yes, of course,' and I have returned to the labor ward to be greeted by happy
women with their newborn babies in their arms: 'How right you are, Doctor, it is
so much easier that way.' That is what really matters to the clinician. He
should use the method that gives the best and safest result from all points of
view until something better is discovered.”
Dr. Grantly Dick-Read said, I am making a big effort to have the prayer book of the English Church changed. Their service for the Churching Woman, which is ostensievly to give thanks for the birth of a child, is one of the most heretical misinterpretations of truth I have ever read, and it offends me when women come to me and say, Yes, I went to Church, but didn’t repeat the service because it wasn’t true…
Here are some quotes from the good doctor:
Grantly Dick-Read Quotes (Author of Childbirth without Fear)
“It is as great a crime to leave a woman alone in her agony and deny her relief
from her suffering as it is to insist upon dulling the consciousness of a
natural mother who desires above all things to be aware of the final reward of
her efforts, whose ambition is to be present, in full possession of her senses,
when the infant she already adores greets her with its first loud cry and the
soft touch of its restless body upon her limbs.”
“I emphasize this because some of my colleagues, for whose academic attainments
I have great respect, argue" 'You assume too much; this is not proved; this is
not strictly scientific. We disagree with your neurology and your psychiatry is
misleading, therefore you must be wrong.' My reply has been, with all humility:
'Yes, of course,' and I have returned to the labor ward to be greeted by happy
women with their newborn babies in their arms: 'How right you are, Doctor, it is
so much easier that way.' That is what really matters to the clinician. He
should use the method that gives the best and safest result from all points of
view until something better is discovered.”
from Wessel
Ch. 10.
There are 5 (Heb. and Greek) words wc. when applied to a birth, mean simply 'bring forth, etc. Frequently, however, we find these mistranslated as 'travail, sorrow, pain, pangs,' and in some newer translations, even as 'writhe!'
Ch. 11
Even the teaching that God damned all women with pain... isnt Biblical and part of Jewish theology.
The church strongly opposed relief of pain in childbirth in the last century, bec. they taught that a woman's cries and screams pleased the ears of God... In France, 2 women were burned to death-- one for accepting relief for painful childbirth, and the other for giving it to her.
But during the same period in wc they were martyred, a great deal was being done to r educe man's struggle with his 'curse' of tilling the ground, w/ the devt of tools and machinery of the industrial age.
During the Reformation... not only did women have a low position in society, but twas not until this time-- the 16th and 17th centuries-- that the concept of 'pain in childbirth' was included in the 'curse of eve' teaching. Previously, it was only 'sorrow' and 'groans of toil' in childbirth...and subjection to one's husband were mentioned...
According to German scholars, the word most often associated with pain in labor, Wehen, cant be traced farther back than the middle ages.
The really sad thing... is that tho the church has abandoned other false teaching such as flagellation, burning of heretics...it has been slower than the rest of our culture in accepting childbirth as normal.
Alg with the terrible death rate in childbirth in the 19th century due to puerperal flu, a great fear of dying in childbirth developed... caused a woman to become so tense during labor that she resisted the normal progress of birth and created agonizing experiences for herself. This way, a vicious cycle was maintained.
Ch.13
Women have instinctively used various positions for centuries.. apparently found the semisitting position the most comfortable and one in wc they can push to the best advantage... even animals wisely use the aid of gravity in delivering their young.
Ch. 17 Anthrop.
Heb. woman usually crouched on her heals to give birth (1 Sam. 4.19), another woman knelt bet. her legs to receive the child out her waiting lap (Gen. 30.3).
Sorry, I just copy parts than express the ideas myself (wc may take days) or misinterpret what the author was saying, and also, have to abbreviate some or not finish this, but chap 17 is gross...
Ch. 19 Contemporary obstetric practices
Doctors too, are victims of our negative concepts of childbirth. They have suffered when their patients suffered, and if sometimes if they seem indifferent to a woman’s pain, it is because they felt they had to take a purely objective and scientific attitude toward their patients to function effectively as a physician.
Ch. 10.
There are 5 (Heb. and Greek) words wc. when applied to a birth, mean simply 'bring forth, etc. Frequently, however, we find these mistranslated as 'travail, sorrow, pain, pangs,' and in some newer translations, even as 'writhe!'
Ch. 11
Even the teaching that God damned all women with pain... isnt Biblical and part of Jewish theology.
The church strongly opposed relief of pain in childbirth in the last century, bec. they taught that a woman's cries and screams pleased the ears of God... In France, 2 women were burned to death-- one for accepting relief for painful childbirth, and the other for giving it to her.
But during the same period in wc they were martyred, a great deal was being done to r educe man's struggle with his 'curse' of tilling the ground, w/ the devt of tools and machinery of the industrial age.
During the Reformation... not only did women have a low position in society, but twas not until this time-- the 16th and 17th centuries-- that the concept of 'pain in childbirth' was included in the 'curse of eve' teaching. Previously, it was only 'sorrow' and 'groans of toil' in childbirth...and subjection to one's husband were mentioned...
According to German scholars, the word most often associated with pain in labor, Wehen, cant be traced farther back than the middle ages.
The really sad thing... is that tho the church has abandoned other false teaching such as flagellation, burning of heretics...it has been slower than the rest of our culture in accepting childbirth as normal.
Alg with the terrible death rate in childbirth in the 19th century due to puerperal flu, a great fear of dying in childbirth developed... caused a woman to become so tense during labor that she resisted the normal progress of birth and created agonizing experiences for herself. This way, a vicious cycle was maintained.
Ch.13
Women have instinctively used various positions for centuries.. apparently found the semisitting position the most comfortable and one in wc they can push to the best advantage... even animals wisely use the aid of gravity in delivering their young.
Ch. 17 Anthrop.
Heb. woman usually crouched on her heals to give birth (1 Sam. 4.19), another woman knelt bet. her legs to receive the child out her waiting lap (Gen. 30.3).
Sorry, I just copy parts than express the ideas myself (wc may take days) or misinterpret what the author was saying, and also, have to abbreviate some or not finish this, but chap 17 is gross...
Ch. 19 Contemporary obstetric practices
Doctors too, are victims of our negative concepts of childbirth. They have suffered when their patients suffered, and if sometimes if they seem indifferent to a woman’s pain, it is because they felt they had to take a purely objective and scientific attitude toward their patients to function effectively as a physician.
Ch. 17. cont.
During the Renaissance
Dr. philipp semonelweiss(sp?), an austrian physician showed the direct relationship bet. the attending physician's lack of personal cleanliness and the resulting puerperal infection of the (childbearing) mother.
Only a hundred yrs ago a physician would frequently go directly from dissecting corpse to assist a woman in labor, w/o eve washing his hands in water. The doctors themselves were infecting the mothers and causing their deaths.
This in contrast to the jewish regard for cleanliness taught by moses and enforced by the jewish law...
In cities of Norway, Vienna, paris, kiev and berlin, the physician practiced midwifery on a cadaver, left the corpse when called to a woman in labor, and transmitted cadaveric poisoning to her bec. they hadn't even washed. In the crowded labor wards, after examining one woman internally, they simply wiped the blood and pus from their hands and out of their hands onto their waistcoats, and proceeded to the next patient, thrusting their filthy hands into her birth canal to see how labor was progressing (p 175).
During the Renaissance
Dr. philipp semonelweiss(sp?), an austrian physician showed the direct relationship bet. the attending physician's lack of personal cleanliness and the resulting puerperal infection of the (childbearing) mother.
Only a hundred yrs ago a physician would frequently go directly from dissecting corpse to assist a woman in labor, w/o eve washing his hands in water. The doctors themselves were infecting the mothers and causing their deaths.
This in contrast to the jewish regard for cleanliness taught by moses and enforced by the jewish law...
In cities of Norway, Vienna, paris, kiev and berlin, the physician practiced midwifery on a cadaver, left the corpse when called to a woman in labor, and transmitted cadaveric poisoning to her bec. they hadn't even washed. In the crowded labor wards, after examining one woman internally, they simply wiped the blood and pus from their hands and out of their hands onto their waistcoats, and proceeded to the next patient, thrusting their filthy hands into her birth canal to see how labor was progressing (p 175).
S
ServantStrike
Guest
Well, most people don't read it, and then out of those who do, I don't know that the old testament is as popular.
I'm not sure that the killing after circumcision was a good act though. I know Dinah had been defiled, but I still don't know that killing every one in the camp was appropriate. Maybe just the rapist? It caused Jacob some grief.
Genesis 34
Then Jacob said to Simeon and Levi, “You have brought trouble on me, by making me odious among the inhabitants of the land, among the Canaanites and the Perizzites; and my men being few in number, they will gather together against me and attack me and I shall be destroyed, I and my household.”
How about two came together and made a baby?
Luke 1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:35 The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come on you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called the Son of God.