Signs as tools of wondering?

garee · Sep 7, 2020

Yes many people are used as prophets apostles like Jesus to show they are with God .

Many made Jesus into a circus seal. Work a miracle then we will believe.

John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

reneweddaybyday · Sep 7, 2020

garee said:

This statement is not accurate.

I have provided examples where signs did not "produce wondering doubting" ... the examples of the magi who saw Christ as a young child ... and the shepherds who saw Christ in swaddling clothes.

You need to re-think your understanding because to the believer, signs to not "produce wondering doubting". To the believer, signs deepen faith and trust in God and what He has revealed in his Word.

Dino246 · Sep 7, 2020

garee said:

Where is that in Scripture?

garee said:

You did; I quoted you.

garee said:

We are to rightly divide the word of God. If not rightly divided, it does not cause people to wonder causing confusion doubt; rather, it causes people to make ridiculous and baseless assertions about the content and meaning of Scripture, which is what you do consistently.

garee said:

Where is that in Scripture?

garee · Sep 13, 2020

Dino246 said:

Wondering is not believing it causes doubt. .

Its hidden in a series parables. I have offered it more than once. ( luke 9 or Mark 9)

The formula for rightly dividing parables is found in 2 Corinthians 4:18. It informs us how to mix faith (hear God) . The eternal not seen mixed with the temporal seen. No mixing no gospel .

Faith, the key that unlocks the mysteries of God. The power that the gates of hell will not prevail against.

Bbrdrd · Sep 13, 2020

Garee, please don't take this post the wrong way as it is written out of genuine concern not mocking.

I think you need to be evaluated by a mental health professional. Your posts generally contain leaps of understanding that seem to make sense to you and you alone.

Dino246 · Sep 13, 2020

garee said:

Don't confuse the modern meaning of "wondering" as in "not knowing" or "being uncertain" with the biblical use, as in "having your conscious, rational mind overwhelmed by your experience".

garee said:

Neither chapter records any of Jesus' parables. What is "hidden" cannot be verified by others. You can claim whatever you like, but unless you can provide plain, clear Scripture to back up your claims, you might as well be blowing smoke.

garee said:

Gee, that's odd. The passage says nothing whatsoever about a "formula for rightly dividing parables" or how to "mix faith". I think you just made that up yourself.

garee · Sep 13, 2020

Bbrdrd said:

Its a ongoing conversation I have been having with another poster. Did you have a question? Just wondering?

Bbrdrd · Sep 13, 2020

garee said:

Does "what is this guy smoking?" count?

All joking aside, I've read several of your back and forths and at first I thought you just had language issues. The more I read from you, though, the more you seem to be making connections between words that only you could possibly be seeing. I'm no doctor but from what I do know of psychology I suspect there's something causing the disorganized thinking that seems so prevalent in all of your posts. It's not quite hebephrenic but I suspect professional help would draw out whatever valid points you do have rather than you just spewing incoherent pseudo-Biblical gibberish.

garee · Sep 13, 2020

Dino246 said:

Thanks I will try .

Wondering is not exercising faith. Faith, yes or no answer.

Wondering being amazed or marveling brings doubt. Like that of faithless Thomas. He remined faithless until Christ gave him the faith to confess Jesus as the Son of God not seen is lord. (the commandment be not faithless but believe (and it was so). It took away the wondering and doubting .

The formula is in 2 Corinthians 4:18.

The whole chapter of Luke 9 expresses the law that without parable he spoke not, in order to teach us how to walk according to the "law of faith" (the unseen)

Luke 9: 42-45 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father. And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, Let these sayings sink down into your ears: ( beleive God) for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying.

Still in a state of confusion

Note. . (blue) in parenthesis my addition.

Luke 9 :46 Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest.

Which one do you think was the greatest. The apostle Paul or John perhaps Peter? The tallest? The one with the highest IQ?

There Jesus standing right in front of them must of thought Jesus needed to be evaluated by a mental health professional . Continuing still confused he spoke another parable.

Luke 9 :47-50 And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. And John answered and said, Master, we saw (walking by sight the temporal ) one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. (walking by sight the temporal ) And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.

Again looking at the things seen the temporal they tried to make it about the corrupted flesh . Jesus defines the us not by what the eyes see but the unseen work of the father who works in mankind. While still wondering another parable

Luke 9:51_54 And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
And when his disciples James and John saw this,(walking by sight the temporal ) they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?

They desired to kill the misperceived competition.(the pagan foundation out of sight out of mind. No faith the eternal

Luke 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

The faithless manner. Natural unconverted mankind . A lesson in faith .

What do you think the manner was if not to teach them how to walk by faith mixing it with the temporal seen? Why did the father give words to Jesus in order to rebuke them? Jesus needed to be evaluated by a mental health?

. .

Dino246 · Sep 14, 2020

garee said:

Did you read my previous post... the one to which you are responding? It seems that you didn't, because you are doing exactly what I said you should avoid. Wondering is being in awe, not being in doubt. Thomas' doubt has nothing to do with "wondering" as you use it here.

garee said:

No, it doesn't. There are several events recorded, none of which is about "without parables, He spoke not".

garee said:

Really? Someone else suggests that you need the help of a mental health professional, and suddenly you're suggesting the disciples thought Jesus needed that? Can you see the incoherence of your comments?

garee · Sep 14, 2020

It has everything to do with faith the unseen eternal of God. Jesus certainly was not teaching Thomas how to walk by sight. Flesh and bone is not spirit, the unseen .

Did you mix faith?

Yes wondering marveling is being in awe. The law of faith is believing as in let your answers be yes of no .

When Jesus revealed the greatest possible miracle( Born again) . He instructed Nicodemus to marvel not, or wonder not.
Wondering doubting does not come to the conclusion of faith (yes or no) Satan gains wondering power to bring his signs a lying wonders . We should marvel as we believe. Not wondering marveling being in awe , it is not a source of believing called faith.

Right now we are referring to Luke 9. One parable made up of many. to teach us how to walk by the unseen law of faith.

I think we could all use mental heath professionals .

Why do you think he rebuked the apostles and informed them they knew not what manner they were of.? Did it mean they need the help of a mental health professional?

I think he was teaching them to mix faith the unseen eternal in what they did hear and see. The gospel rest.

The prescription for rightly dividing those parables must be applied according to the law of faith.

If we look to the letter of the law the temporal literal . It would mean they need the help of a mental health professional. Hopefully a Christians although that not necessary . Gods law that works in us are Gods laws.

2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Walk by the power of faith let it do its good work to both will and do His good pleasure.. .Don't be like the apostles that desired to call down fire and consume the misperceived competition the foundation of faith mankind kind .Out of sight out of mind . they forgot to mix faith, the gospel.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight:

Benadam · Sep 14, 2020

garee said:

That's exactly the purpose of signs and wonders. To come to the conclusion of faith.
That's why the devil performs false one's. They tend to confirm a belief. If they caused doubt you can bet the devil wouldn't be using them.

Graceguy · Sep 14, 2020

garee said:

The bible speaks of signs and wonders . It can be defined as a sign with wonders. . . a tool for wondering never coming to faith, a end. .

The sign is never alone .It either produces a true wonder a sign. . as prophecy. Like the sign of Jonas fulfilled in Jesus. .Or a lying wonder not of prophecy as a sign. Like the Pharaohs magicians casting down a serpents in a challenge of authority . . apposing the prophecy spoken to of Abraham 400 years earlier.

Then we have the sign of the times a generality (Mathew 24) .

I think a proper distinction should be made between lying sign and wonders and true. That is if we are to rightly divide and seek the approval of God.

What are some ideas to either support wonders or resist?

Don’t we already HAVE the approval of God?

garee · Sep 14, 2020

Benadam said:

I would offer. Signs follow the conclusion .They are not as source of faith. . the conclusion . In that way according to 1 Peter 1 receiving the end of our new born again faith from the beginning . . .all one work of God working in us with us.

Satan brings lying wonders to marvel after to cause a emotional confusion and doubt . Then God sends a strong delusion to them who do not walk or understand God by a work of His faith or labor of His Love that works in us .The power is not of our earthly bodies of corruption or death . The witness of men. But is according to the unseen witness that works in the believer..to will and do his good pleasure.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Good example (Mark 16:17-18) that shows the power of faith through prophecy, the declared word of God. By it, it casts out lying spirits of error. Through it get gives the believer the desire to share their new tongue, the gospel .They will be challenged by false prophets and false apostles. And the poisonous doctrines of mankind . . it will not make the faith of Christ's labor of love that works in them without effect. They will desire as act of their new will (laying of hands) With a living hope they will recover. If they have sinned that God would forgive them

Again follow after. We walk by faith the unseen eternal.

Mark 16:17-18 King James Version (KJV)And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

Dino246 · Sep 14, 2020

garee said:

Has it occurred to you that Jesus was standing right in front of Thomas? Has it occurred to you that Jesus' lesson was not "walking by the spirit" rather than walking by the flesh? You seem to think that everything is about "walking by faith the unseen". That is not the case.

garee said:

Did I mix something with the biblical text to invent something inconsistent with the biblical text? Of course not.

garee said:

No it isn't. The "law of faith" is that we are saved apart from the works of the law.

garee said:

Again, you are using the incorrect meaning of "wondering". How many times do you need things explained to you?

garee said:

No; there are no parables in Luke 9. It's not "one parable made up of many".

garee said:

You just aren't getting this. You wouldn't be asking this question if Bbrdrd had not suggested that you need to see a mental health professional; his comment has nothing whatsoever to do with the biblical text, so stop dragging it in!

garee said:

You can think what you like, but that isn't what the text tells us.

garee said:

There is no "prescription for rightly dividing the parables" in Scripture. That's just another of your many inventions.

garee said:

There you go again with the irrelevance.

Garee, you have grasped on to this idea of "mental health professional" and mentioned it three times in your post, as though it were ever relevant to the biblical text. It isn't. The question was about you, personally, not about Jesus or His disciples, or anyone else in Scripture.

garee · Sep 14, 2020

Graceguy said:

yes

MyrtleTrees · Sep 14, 2020

garee said:

In some Bible passages, "signs and wonders" refers to miracles Jesus did - true miracles.
But in Matthew 24, the term, "Signs and wonders" in the context of that chapter means, "fake miracles." Most likely, I think. Such as the false faith healers do, like Benny Hinn.

Matt 24:24

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

garee · Sep 14, 2020

MyrtleTrees said:

I would agree .I see it as signs as wonders . All one thing. Or the sign of wondering never coming to a end . Like going on a trip with children .How much further Mom or Dad over and over every five minutes .Until we arrive. The trial of Patience...

Benadam · Sep 14, 2020

garee said:

Would there be a need for signs if a conclusion has been made? The sign is for opening minds and hearts to the truth of the invisible reality signified. For confirming the Truth for those who are open to believing and those who already believe.

As for being a source of faith.

John2:11
Jesus did this as the beginning of his signs in Cana in Galilee and so revealed his glory, and his disciples began to believe in him.

John 6:14
When the people saw the sign he had done, they said, “This is truly the Prophet, the one who is to come int the world.”

John 2:23
While he was in Jerusalem for the feast of Passover, many began to believe in his name when they saw the signs he was doing.

garee · Sep 14, 2020

Benadam said:

Signs follow after the unseen work . Mark 16:17-18 .

You say like a sign that says you have left city limits.

All three examples you had offered are not sign that follow after a certain miracle or prophecy . It was a sign that a prophet was in there mist. No sign as a wonder like in Catholisicim and the bodies of mystics who seek after signs as wonders . Thinking they as a law of the fathers are a source of the faith of Christ that works in us.. They appose : the law of faith as it is written in the law and the prophets alone (sola scriptura) They become a law unto themselves .We are instructed to dare not be of that number.

Interesting that God would dare. Perhaps like Paul at his born again conversion a thorn in the side .the letter of the law death pricking him awaking the love of God in his life.

2 Corinthians 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.

I would think Christians would compare themselves to the law of liberty, the gospel, as two walking together according to one source of faith. . .as it is written

Some it would seem still seek after wonderments . Even though the book of prophecy, made up of words of prophecy is sealed with 7 seal with a promise not to add to it or subtract from the book of God's law ..

For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen. Revelation 22: 18-21

Again it is a sign a prophet is in view .A prophet is one who declares the word of God .

1 Samuel 10:11 And it came to pass, when all that knew him beforetime saw that, behold, he prophesied among the prophets, then the people said one to another, What is this that is come unto the son of Kish? Is Saul also among the prophets?

Saul proved to be false prophet in so much he in the end when God stops all forms of communication and he sought after lying signs seeing the image of Samuel in his fleshly mind . When what is called the legion of familiar came up through the witch or mystic. The lying spirit gave the illusion to falsely believe it was Samuel (necromancy) God sent a strong delusion so he would beleive the lie. Saul bowed to the the spirit that created a illusion in his flesh mind. Wondering in awe

Signs as tools of wondering?

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