sinless? or sinning less.

[gotime]

Culture may change, but the law God puts within you does not. Sin is transgression of the law. You must know when you break the law placed within you

Yes when ever you act in opposition to the love that is placed in you.

That is why for me with the knowledge that God has given me of the Sabbath I would be acting in opposition to to the law of love to not keep it.

but before I had the knowledge from the word of the Sabbath I did not have the conviction cause I did not know.

 

[michael56]

Yes when ever you act in opposition to the love that is placed in you.

That is why for me with the knowledge that God has given me of the Sabbath I would be acting in opposition to to the law of love to not keep it.

but before I had the knowledge from the word of the Sabbath I did not have the conviction cause I did not know.

So you did not have conviction of your sin for many years after you had become a Christian?

You have changed your stance of late over this issue. I can only imagine why. But God created a full proof covenant, not one where we could blindly/happily sin without conscience. According to your belief as stated now, that is possible. It is not

 

[skylove7]

I know people in whos culture it was common practice to say 'OMG' and 'Jesus' They say that is the reason they used those terms jokingly, and laughing as Christians without having any conscience they were offending God by doing so. Yet I know other Christians from their same country who have a conscience at taking the Lord's name in vain and therefore would not do so. It is only in ONE CHURCH I have ever been to where I have seen such taking of the Lords name in vain without conscience.

Good Morning gentlemen! God bless you! Please forgive me for jumping in, I just wanted to say to Michael.....when I was a child my grandmother would even scold us children for saying 'gosh' to replace Gods. As in " for gosh sakes". According to dear Grandmother saying gosh was just as bad, because she said you mean to say God in your mind, you only change to gosh to sound less offensive. I often thank God that he gives me love in my silent thoughts people don't hear. I never have to lie to people with my lips that I love them, because my silent thoughts agree with my voice. Have a wonderful day gentleman. God loves us today, therefore any storm has light inside our heart! Thank you

 

[gotime]

So you did not have conviction of your sin for many years after you had become a Christian?

You have changed your stance of late over this issue. I can only imagine why. But God created a full proof covenant, not one where we could blindly sin in any area without conscience. According to your belief as stated now, that is possible. It is not

I have a little, the error I now realize I was making was to take my life now and apply it to a new born again Christian. and I apologize for that.

Yes God did make a fool proof covenant, that by way of knowledge of the scriptures we would grow.

We can sin ignorantly but the true christian searches the scriptures in prayer to know the will of God as it is written:

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

For years my sin was in ignorance, no rebellion, once I understood I obeyed from the law/love God had put in my heart.

 

[michael56]

I have a little, the error I now realize I was making was to take my life now and apply it to a new born again Christian. and I apologize for that.

Yes God did make a fool proof covenant, that by way of knowledge of the scriptures we would grow.

We can sin ignorantly but the true christian searches the scriptures in prayer to know the will of God as it is written:

2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

For years my sin was in ignorance, no rebellion, once I understood I obeyed from the law/love God had put in my heart.

Under the new covenant the law God requires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart by the Spirit. This has to be the case because Christ is the end of the law un to righteousness to everyone who believeth. The idea immediately a person becomes a Christian they need to quickly read all the applicable commandments in the bible in order not to commit sin is fanciful to say the least.
I am convinced you do not understand the new covenant. You are where you have always been, stuck in the literal letter. As I told you, in one church I now attend weekly, what strikes me above all else is a lack of the Holy Spirit's presence. It is simply the literal letter. That is not enough, if it was the Pharisees of Jesus day would have attained Heaven. But though the knew the literal letter inside out, they did not understand the heart of the message that letter contained

 

[KJV1611]

We agree so far.

Originally Posted by KJV1611
Great! Now let's take that info into verse 2.

Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

A little supporting scripture.

Psa_34:2 My soul shall make her boast in the LORD: the humble shall hear thereof, and be glad.

Our soul is considered to be a woman in the bible. Now apply Psa_34:2 and Galatians 5:24 to verse 2.

A woman (the soul) is bound by the law to her husband as long as her husband (flesh) lives. But if the husband (flesh) is dead (crucified with Christ).... this is important... the woman (soul) is loosed from the law of her husband (flesh). The law is for the flesh, not the soul. The only reason the soul is bound to the law is because the soul is married to the flesh. When God first showed me that, man it blew me away! That understanding unlocks so many other passages in the bible. Again, if you don't agree, we will agree to disagree and keep going.

A little more on verse 2. Since the first husband (flesh) is dead for those that are in Christ, then we are no longer under the law. In other words, the law no longer has dominion over our souls. Sin is not imputed when there is no law.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.


On to verse 3.

Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

If the flesh has not been crucified, then the woman cannot marry Christ because that would be spiritual adultery and Christ is not an adulterer. But if the first husband is dead then she is free from the law that bound her to her first husband and she is free to marry Christ.

 

[gotime]

Fair call I think you are the one that does not get the new covenant. but hey each to their own.

 

[michael56]

If the flesh has not been crucified, then the woman cannot marry Christ because that would be spiritual adultery and Christ is not an adulterer. But if the first husband is dead then she is free from the law that bound her to her first husband and she is free to marry Christ.

Was the flesh crucified in the person spoken of in Rom 7:14-25?

 

[KJV1611]

What exactly is the law written on the heart in your view?

The only law that can possible be written on someones heart... love! Love God, love your enemy.

 

[KJV1611]

Was the flesh crucified in the person spoken of in Rom 7:14-25?

Michael no offence, but you're not getting any of this. Yes Paul's flesh was crucified in verses 14-25. The flesh is not your sin nature. Nobody's sin nature has been crucified... if it was then we would all be perfect and never sin again.

The flesh is the part of mankind that binds the soul to the law. When that has been crucified there is no more law.

 

[michael56]

Michael no offence, but you're not getting any of this. Yes Paul's flesh was crucified in verses 14-25. The flesh is not your sin nature. Nobody's sin nature has been crucified... if it was then we would all be perfect and never sin again.

The flesh is the part of mankind that binds the soul to the law. When that has been crucified there is no more law.

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law. Rom 3:31

No I am not getting your explanations. Rom 7:14-25 does not speak of victory but defeat! However, the theological mind is not to be underestimated. I need a break. Speak to you later

 

[KJV1611]

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law. Rom 3:31

No I am not getting your explanations. Rom 7:14-25 does not speak of victory but defeat! However, the theological mind is not to be underestimated. I need a break. Speak to you later

No, we establish the law. The whole purpose of "thou shalt not" was to force law keepers to love their neighbor. The believer doesn't need "thou shalt not" to love his neighbor... love is in the fleshy tables of our hearts... we don't have to be forced to love, love is in us.

 

[KJV1611]

Of course I commit sin, no Christian who had been born again of the Spirit could truthfully state they never sin, the standard set by the law is far too high for anyone to perfectly attain to. However there is a huge difference between being a slave to sin(sin masters and dominates your life) and you living an ever more holy life(being led into righteousness) where you see much victory over sin.

Well then... I believe the words below would describe you perfectly. You desire to meet the standards, but the standards are too high. That which you would do, you can't do. But that which you hate (opposition to the high standard), is the thing you do.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

 

[michael56]

No, we establish the law. The whole purpose of "thou shalt not" was to force law keepers to love their neighbor. The believer doesn't need "thou shalt not" to love his neighbor... love is in the fleshy tables of our hearts... we don't have to be forced to love, love is in us.

if you are saying we fulfil the law by love, then Paul the mature Christian did not love others, for he could not do the good he wanted to do, but rather the evil he did not want to do this he kept on doing.

 

[michael56]

Well then... I believe the words below would describe you perfectly. You desire to meet the standards, but the standards are too high. That which you would do, you can't do. But that which you hate (opposition to the high standard), is the thing you do.

Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

Would the above concur with the following:

For sin shall not be your master for you are3 not under law but under grace Rom 6:14

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom 3:31

The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:6-8

Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live Rom 8:12&13

 

[michael56]

We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][c][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19[/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]20[/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death


Does the above fit with the below?

For sin shall not be your master for you are not under law but under grace Rom 6:14

Do we then nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather we uphold the law Rom 3:31

The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. [SUP]7 [/SUP]The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God Rom 8:6-8

Therefore, brothers and sisters, we have an obligation—but it is not to the flesh, to live according to it. [SUP]13[/SUP]For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the misdeeds of the body, you will live Rom 8:12&13

 

[KJV1611]

I'm new to this,is my 1 st 1, but I think im in trouble an have sinnered moor cut i was tryin to punnins me for all the uther sins i did and now im in a spot and im a new cristiun that s only just bin reborn and i think I didnt understand the rules an am in a wurst spot.

The good news is that all sins are washed away in Christ and the only rules are to love God and love people.

 

[michael56]

For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with,[SUP][a][/SUP] that we should no longer be slaves to sin— [SUP]7 [/SUP]because anyone who has died has been set free from sin. rom 6:6&7

Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires 6:12

Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness 6:15&16


But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you have come to obey from your heart the pattern of teaching that has now claimed your allegiance. [SUP]18 [/SUP]You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.17&18

Does the above tally with the below?


We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. [SUP]15 [/SUP]I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. [SUP]16 [/SUP]And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. [SUP]17 [/SUP]As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[SUP][c][/SUP] For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. [SUP]19[/SUP]For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. [SUP]20[/SUP]Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.[SUP]21 [/SUP]So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; [SUP]23 [/SUP]but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. [SUP]24 [/SUP]What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death

 

[KJV1611]

We disagree on everything Michael... pretty much no need for us to debate it.

 

[gotime]

Just to point out something:

The Gentile believers had the love of God put on their hearts yet they still needed instruction:

Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Why did they need this instruction if the law was on their heart?

Because the law is love not knowledge, love does not make someone automatically cease to eat meats offered to Idols. Knowledge is required especially if you have grown up eating it thinking nothing of it. etc.

by the way these are Gentile believers it stands to reason that they have already been instructed in many things already. So not this is note all that was expected of them.