So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

[phil112]

............. Suicide is self murder. And John says no murderer has eternal life abiding in them. Do you believe what John says or do you want to just believe your own thing?...............

Okay, moron, you're telling me that God does not/cannot forgive murder.
So King David, a man after God's own heart, a murderer, went to hell?
You are dumber than a box of rocks. You talk to hear your voice and you type to see your empty thoughts on your screen. I have nothing but disdain for you. You have your heart hardened and your mind made up. Scripture, God's word, means nothing to you. You disgust me.

 

[eyesonly]

Some things in life are just common sense whereby you do not need a Bible to figure it out. For what is the difference between murdering oneself versus murdering others? Well both are the taking of lives. In other words, if I said that the guy down the street murdered himself, you understand what that meant.

Thank you for your reply Jason. You have revealed all I would ever need to know about you and your understanding of the word.
Btw, you are also telling me that if I hate someone I have no chance at eternal life as well?
God bless

 

[eyesonly]

I only ask that you quote from the bible one passage that states that suicide is self-murder please. Thank you

God bless

Some things in life are just common sense whereby you do not need a Bible to figure it out. For what is the difference between murdering oneself versus murdering others? Well both are the taking of lives. In other words, if I said that the guy down the street murdered himself, you understand what that meant.

So Jason, the answer to my question about finding the bible passage is? Yes or No

God bless

 

[JaumeJ]

Most people who decry obedience to the law in this forum believe it translates as being bound by the law. That is being under the law is being bound to every law, stature and commandment todo them all perfectly. This we all know is impossible for mere creatures.

kBecause of Jesus Christ we no longer need fear the curse of the law, punishment and death, but this does not make the law obsolete or ill advised.

Any who are learned of Jesus Christ know obedience of the law and commandments of God is no longer to be feared. God is perfecting us in our way given by Jesus Christ, and all we need do is obey as well a we can with good conscience in the sight of God, and any time we err, we have that Advocate, that Mediator with the Fathe

I have recently come to view the law and commandments as promises, promises that one day, when we have been perfected by Jesus Christ in us, we will indeed be totally law abicing, but this perfection will not come before His day. We know how to obey the law and commandments by the teaching of Jesus Christ Who has clarified all.

One very profound commandment is when Yahweh says "You shall be perfect for I am perfect." All know that we cannot BE perfect, so this commandment is a promise that come His Day we will all be perfected, and we will be just like Jesus Christ. We will not be Jesus Christ, but we will be just like Him, and this isbeyond our imagination.

In short if we view commandments as not only instruction on quality living but as promises tht one day we will actually be made perfect in every aspect, they become a joy to think on and attempt to practice them all according to the teaching of Jesus Christ. We are children of obedience, never of disobedience. God bless all in Jesus Christ, amen.

It seems this thinking relates directly with the words of Christ's prayer taught to us all, "Thy will be done, on earth, as it is in heaven." Heaven is to be perfect, while here we are being perfected while doing our very best to DO God's will. Praise Jesus Christ, and may He return soon, amen.

 

[royalscot]

and what covenant do you read, all have sinned and fell short of the glory of god. and who do you need to believe in.

23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,Romans 3

what covenant are you born into. the old or new.
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned---13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many.16 And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification.17 For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.
18 Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness leads to justification and life for all men.19 For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, so by the one man's obedience the many will be made righteous.20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more,21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.Romans 5

how dose paul an apostle to the gentiles explain it.

29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.Galatians 3

did the prophet fore tell .
6 he says:
"It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
to raise up the tribes of Jacob
and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
I will make you as a light for the nations,
that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth." Isaiah 49: The Servant of the LORD


salvation defines as
1 theology deliverance from sin and its consequences, believed by christians to be brought about by faith in christ

2 preservation or deliverance from harm, ruin or loss.

16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.John 3

who s hands are eternal life in.

and because death now being conquered there will be a resurrection.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

So if you are not under the Law, does that mean you are in lawelessness?

if you are not under law then you are under grace and under grace we establish the law.

If it were not for grace all men would be under law and without hope.

GOD gave dominion of the earth to man so then JESUS had to come as a man into the earth and take back dominion of the earth by fulfilling the law and then he said that all power in heaven and earth was his and before he left this earth he graced right standing to all men that believe the WORD of GOD.

And we have access to this grace through faith.

 

[Jason0047]

Thank you for your reply Jason. You have revealed all I would ever need to know about you and your understanding of the word.
Btw, you are also telling me that if I hate someone I have no chance at eternal life as well?
God bless

No, that is not what I have said. It is what John has said. Read 1 John 3:15. It says he that hates his brother is a murderer and we know no murderer has eternal life abiding in them.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

if you are not under law then you are under grace and under grace we establish the law.

If it were not for grace all men would be under law and without hope.

GOD gave dominion of the earth to man so then JESUS had to come as a man into the earth and take back dominion of the earth by fulfilling the law and then he said that all power in heaven and earth was his and before he left this earth he graced right standing to all men that believe the WORD of GO.

And we have access to this grace through faith.

the Law of Faith yes... we Establish that.. any other adhering to the Law and being Justified by It, ye have fallen from Grace, ye shall not be Justified by the Works of the Law, but by Faith in Christ, For Christ is the end of the Law for all who believe.. the Law is still there Good and Holy, but its not for the Righteous.. but for the ungodly... the Law is the Taskmaster, that brings you to Christ... the Whole Book of Galatians, is about those who started in Grace but got trapped back under the Law for Justification.. nope.. the Just shall live by Faith...

 

[Jason0047]

So Jason, the answer to my question about finding the bible passage is? Yes or No

God bless

1 John 3:15 should be sufficient enough. If you actually need a Bible to spell it out for you that suicide is self murder then I honestly cannot help you. Such a thing is just a logical deduction based on standard reasoning and common knowledge. If you are unsure, ask God for wisdom and He will show it to you. For how can suicide not be self murder? Taking a life that goes against God's will is murder (Whether it be another life or your own life).

 

[Jason0047]

if you are not under law then you are under grace and under grace we establish the law.

Paul is referencing the Law of Moses and not the Law of Christ. Paul is not against all forms of Law. Paul says... shall we continue in sin because we are not under the Law (i.e. the Law of Moses)? Paul replies with God forbid. Paul even says he establishes the Law. Paul also says that what he writes should be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Commandments are Laws. Paul writes about the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). Paul writes that if you love your brother (neighbor), you fulfill the Law. Paul says if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine Godliness, they are proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

If it were not for grace all men would be under law and without hope.

The Law of Moses. Not the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and not the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). There is still Law in the New Testament. Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments. Grace is not a license for us to sort of serve God when we feel like it and to also hold onto sin in some way. It doesn't work like that. Jesus told men to repent; And Jesus defined repentance for us so one cannot invent their own definition for it. Jesus said the Ninevites will rise up in Judgment against this generation because they repented at the preaching of Jonah. If you were to look at Jonah chapter 3, we see the Ninevites had turned fromt their wicked ways as a part of their repentance.

GOD gave dominion of the earth to man so then JESUS had to come as a man into the earth and take back dominion of the earth by fulfilling the law and then he said that all power in heaven and earth was his and before he left this earth he graced right standing to all men that believe the WORD of GOD.

And we have access to this grace through faith.

Yes, we have access thru his grace by the vehicle of faith. But what does one's faith look like? Is it a mental acknowledgment alone? Is it a faith without works whereby it is a dead faith (As James says)? For the author of Hebrews says, without holiness, no man shall see the Lord. So yes, we are saved by God's grace thru faith, but are faith has got to be a true faith as described in the Bible and not a false faith.

 

[Jason0047]

Okay, moron, you're telling me that God does not/cannot forgive murder.
So King David, a man after God's own heart, a murderer, went to hell?
You are dumber than a box of rocks. You talk to hear your voice and you type to see your empty thoughts on your screen. I have nothing but disdain for you. You have your heart hardened and your mind made up. Scripture, God's word, means nothing to you. You disgust me.

As a believer: God will only forgive sin that is confessed and forsaken
(See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 1:7).

 

[Bowhunter2394]

As a believer: God will only forgive sin that is confessed and forsaken
(See 1 John 2:1, 1 John 1:9, and 1 John 1:7).

And Sin is not imputed where there is No Law... indeed!

 

[Jason0047]

As for being justified by the works of the Law: This is in Galatians chapter 2:16 and it is in reference to the Law of Moses because certain brethren at the church of Galatia had been tricked into thinking they needed to be circumcised in order to be saved (See Galatians 2:3). Paul defines the "Law" as the Law of Moses because he says it was a schoolmaster that brings us unto Christ (Galatians 3:24).

Paul says the just shall live by faith (Galatians 3:11). See the famous heroes of faith chapter (Hebrews 11) to understand what true faith looks like. For in that chapter, we see God's people putting forth action as a part of their faith. Faith is used as an action word in that chapter. So it is not a mental acknowledgment alone.

 

[Jason0047]

And Sin is not imputed where there is No Law... indeed!

Well, that is not technically true. There is Law mentioned in the New Testament. Not the Law of Moses, but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). However, if there is no Law, then how do unbelievers sin? For sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). Paul says he establishes the Law.

Besides, Paul says that what he has written should be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Paul says if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Well, that is not technically true. There is Law mentioned in the New Testament. Not the Law of Moses, but the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2) and the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2). However, if there is no Law, then how do unbelievers sin? For sin is transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). Paul says he establishes the Law. Paul says that what he has written should be considered as the Lord's Commandments. Paul says if any man teaches contrary to the words of Jesus and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and they know nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4).

sorry Jason. your man made gospel.. has no power over the Elect of God, carry on Wayward son!

 

[Jason0047]

Well, if we slip up into a sin, we do not go out and do more works of the Law in order to get right with God. It is by God's grace that we get right with the Lord. It is always by His grace in how we are saved and by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:15). The good deeds that manifest in your life by faith are not your own, but they are God's good works. So you cannot claim they are your own works or claim that you are saving yourself. So I am not claiming Works Salvationism. Far.... from it. It is Jesus that saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification. It's just that a true saving faith (Which takes place when a person truly repents of their sin) will result in good fruit because God lives within them.

1 John 1:9 says IF.... we confess our sin.... he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin.

I do not see anything about already being forgiven before confessing in that verse.

1 John 1:7 says IF .... we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

I do not see anything about a change of those conditions in 1 John 1:7. We must walk in the light as he is in the light in order to be cleansed. That is what the passage says.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Well, if we slip up into a sin, we do not go out and do more works of the Law in order to get right with God. It is by God's grace that we get right with the Lord. It is always by His grace in how we are saved and by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:15). The good deeds that manifest in your life by faith are not your own, but they are God's good works. So you cannot claim they are your own works or claim that you are saving yourself. So I am not claiming Works Salvationism. Far.... from it. It is Jesus that saves us both in Justification and in Sanctification. It's just that a true saving faith (Which takes place when a person truly repents of their sin) will result in good fruit because God lives within them.

1 John 1:9 says IF.... we confess our sin.... he is faithful and just to forgive us our sin.

I do not see anything about already being forgiven before confessing in that verse.

1 John 1:7 says IF .... we walk in the light as he is in the light, then the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin.

I do not see anything about a change of those conditions in 1 John 1:7. We must walk in the light as he is in the light in order to be cleansed. That is what the passage says.

Some NEED to get right with God, and He will bring them to that Point in their life and Save them...... Some will have no chance at Getting Right with God, because of their Spirit Blasphemy yet call themselves Children of Abraham...... some claim to Walk in His Light as He is in the 'light'..., yet the light that is in them, is 'darkness', How Great is that Darkness!

so very evident by the man made gospels that are held out in un righteousness..!

 

[Jason0047]

Some NEED to get right with God, and He will bring them to that Point in their life and Save them...... Some will have no chance at Getting Right with God, because of their Spirit Blasphemy yet call themselves Children of Abraham...... some claim to Walk in His Light as He is in the 'light'..., yet the light that is in them, is 'darkness', How Great is that Darkness!

so very evident by the man made gospels that are held out in un righteousness..!

Yeah, what you said doesn't really mean anything unless you can back up your claim. Also, what you said here is an avoidance of the verses that I brought up. Tell me exactly why you disagree with the plain straight forward reading in 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7?

In other words, I would like for you to provide a commentary on 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7. Tell me what each word is saying in context to the rest of the chapter. Can you do that?

 

[phil112]

Oh pulleeeezzzee...someone, anyone, everyone, let this thread die. Stop stroking jasons' ego.
Do you not understand that he is only about himself? If not so, would he not have heeded resistance? Do you people that keep feeding his ego not realize that the apostle Paul, when faced with resistance escaped to more favorable environs? Not one of Christ's disciples, not one of His followers, would force their way on you....yet jason does.
Criminy, what more do you need to know about him?

 

[Bowhunter2394]

Yeah, what you said doesn't really mean anything unless you can back up your claim. Also, what you said here is an avoidance of the verses that I brought up. Tell me exactly why you disagree with the plain straight forward reading in 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7?

In other words, I would like for you to provide a commentary on 1 John 1:9 and 1 John 1:7. Tell me what each word is saying in context to the rest of the chapter. Can you do that?

Your OWN WORDS Jason, back up the Claim, especially on the 2nd one.. indeed! by their fruits ye shall know them..