Sober in the Spirit excludes what exactley?

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KJV1611 said:
The new wine is grape juice when it goes into the bottle, and yes eventually it will ferment if the bottles worn out and aren't sealed properly. But if the bottles are new and sealed properly the new wine wont ferment and pressure wont build up in the bottle so both the bottles and the new wine are preserved.

Luke 5:37-38 KJV
And no man putteth new wine into old bottles; else the new wine will burst the bottles, and be spilled, and the bottles shall perish. [38] But new wine must be put into new bottles; and both are preserved.

Bottles are earthen vessels and this treasure is hidden in earthen vessels... the wine skin translation kind of ruins the parable, it makes it harder to see the true meaning of the parable. The old bottles were Jews, the new bottles are the Gentiles.
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It looks like your KJV has limited your understanding here; you have this exactly backwards. The "wine skin" (KJV: "bottle") is exactly that: a skin bag. The modern sense of "bottle" is not correct; you are making the mistake of anachronism: reading a modern meaning into a 17th-century word.

Further, you seem to be unaware of what happens to grape juice if it is not chemically or thermally preserved. It will ferment because of the chemicals and biological agents present. A tight seal on a modern bottle will not prevent that; more likely the bottle will burst. Your view would have modern pressure seals available in 1611 (or 30 AD)... a bit optimistic, considering that the amount of gas produced would raise the pressure a thousand-fold in the tiny air space. Good luck keeping that cork in.

The verse makes perfect sense if the grape juice ferments inside a still-flexible new skin. By the way, the new bottles are not Gentiles (necessarily); they are people who receive the Spirit of God by faith in Christ.
 
I dont see what is wrong with the word bottle

2899892


KJV or not, the word shows what it is even in the OT

2899891
 
I dunno why folks think if you let grape juice age that it will become fermented wine..... 'cuz it won't.

Evvvvverybody searches for the evidence of fermented wine, but not for vinegar. Note the text:

Matthew 27:33-34 (KJV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And when they were come unto a place called Golgotha, that is to say, a place of a skull, [SUP]34 [/SUP]They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.

Greek Strong's Number: 3690
Greek Word: ὄξος
Transliteration: oxos
Phonetic Pronunciation: ox'-os
Root: from <G3691>
Cross Reference: TDNT - 5:288,701
Part of Speech: n n
Vine's Words: Vinegar

Usage Notes:
English Words used in KJV:
vinegar 7
[Total Count: 7]

from <G3691> (oxus); vinegar, i.e. sour wine :- vinegar

When sweet wine, which is not fermented BTW, gets warm or old, it will get acidic & turn to vinegar. The more the sugar, the stronger it will be. In most places in the NT vinegar is sour wine, unfermented. New wine is also unfermented, that's why it's called NEW.

Since drunkenness is a sin in both OT & NT, using the phrase "drunk in the Spirit" would insult the Holy Spirit's empowerment & work in the believer. It is blasphemous to purposely state that the Spirit's actions in the believer would make him act like a drunken fool.
 
PilgrimPassingThru said:
I dont see what is wrong with the word bottle

2899892


KJV or not, the word shows what it is even in the OT

2899891
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Actually, using bottle for wineskin is just as wrong & mistranslated as "lampstand" is "candlestick" in the KJ NT.

IMO, the translation of all grape juice & fermented wine to "wine" in the KJV is purposely mistranslated by the Archbishop of Canterbury, for both the RCC & the Church of England used fermented wine in communion. Both religious leaders enjoyed their wine.....

There's several such "mistranslations" in the KJV..... but few dare to expose them.
 
Stephen63 said:
Actually, using bottle for wineskin is just as wrong & mistranslated as "lampstand" is "candlestick" in the KJ NT.

IMO, the translation of all grape juice & fermented wine to "wine" in the KJV is purposely mistranslated by the Archbishop of Canterbury, for both the RCC & the Church of England used fermented wine in communion. Both religious leaders enjoyed their wine.....

There's several such "mistranslations" in the KJV..... but few dare to expose them.
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It says SKIN bottle not GLASS bottle besides, if I look up candlestick in the KJV it comes up "candlestick" only in the definition does it equate the two.

In either case you have a skin for a bottle and candlestick is a candlestick unless you look at the definition then you would see its a lampstand. In Leviticus 24:4 it shows ordering a lamp upon a candlestick, I think alot of it is strangely worded.

I dont really wrangle over the words or care to make a man an offender for a word, Im neither of the KJV onlyist cult or of the cult the lives to persecute those who are.

I just use the same book, but I am not an onlylist, but I'll leave that mission to the few, the proud and noble (as yourself) to expose the crazy words wherever they may be LOL
 
Here is what is called a wine skin here


[TABLE="class: post_body, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: post, colspan: 2"]

And these are modern hot water bottles



Both hold liquids neither are bottles in the sense of glass, but skin bottles or rubber bottles[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Pamella said:
Seriously. I'm never sure what is or isn't sober in the spirit.
Like is acting goofy, joking, is that not sober in the spirit? Or just even laughing at things? I don't get it. What are ways one is not sober in the spirit? I have a definition of calm and collected, temperate, dispassionate, circumspect.
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Looking at a brick helps me be sober-minded, especially the corner and the tip. Think about those who lived under the old law and broke it, and had to be stoned to death for their sin, and then have hell to look forward to. If someone would be stoned to death the second they sinned, they would think twice about doing it, but since the punishment is not immediate, they don't care.

It doesn't always work, but there have been times that I thought about the consequence for sin, and Jesus taking it for me, and it caused me to not do the sin at that time. That is being sober-minded. It doesn't mean you can't laugh and enjoy life, it means when it comes to doing what's wrong, you better sober up quick!
 
Dino246 said:
It looks like your KJV has limited your understanding here; you have this exactly backwards. The "wine skin" (KJV: "bottle") is exactly that: a skin bag. The modern sense of "bottle" is not correct; you are making the mistake of anachronism: reading a modern meaning into a 17th-century word.

Further, you seem to be unaware of what happens to grape juice if it is not chemically or thermally preserved. It will ferment because of the chemicals and biological agents present. A tight seal on a modern bottle will not prevent that; more likely the bottle will burst. Your view would have modern pressure seals available in 1611 (or 30 AD)... a bit optimistic, considering that the amount of gas produced would raise the pressure a thousand-fold in the tiny air space. Good luck keeping that cork in.

The verse makes perfect sense if the grape juice ferments inside a still-flexible new skin. By the way, the new bottles are not Gentiles (necessarily); they are people who receive the Spirit of God by faith in Christ.
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2 Corinthians 4:7 KJV
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.

Did Paul say "we have this treasure in GOAT SKIN sacks? No he didn't, he said EARTHEN VESSELS because man is made from dirt. If you read and believed the KJV this wouldn't be an issue for you.... nowhere in the KJV will you see people symbolized by goat skins because people are not made of goat skins they're made of earth.... Adam formed man from dirt.

This is not complicated so I'm not going to spend a lot of time on it. The verse about new wine in new bottle is not a lesson on how to store alcohol, it's lesson about new wine (Holy Spirit), which DOES NOT CORRUPT being put into new earthen vessels (bottles) and BOTH the vessel and the new wine are preserved.

In your analalogy of the wine skins stretching, you're making the parable say the Holy Spirit corrupts. You are wrong!
 
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