Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[Roger316]

"He also taught us principles of righteousness in such sayings as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." In other words, justice isn't that hard to understand."

Roger, Jesus Christ told the rich fellow if he wants to gain eternal life to keep the Commandments.

Yes, the Rich Young Ruler testified that he was keeping them all. (After what Paul said in Romans 7, one wonders if he was actually keeping the Tenth commandment.) Jesus told the young man to sell all of his possessions and give it to the poor. I note that there is nothing in the Law or the Decalogue commanding a man to sell all of his possessions and give it to the poor. Right? So what is Jesus getting at?

Jesus was testing the man's faith and trust in God. Was the man trusting in his wealth for happiness and well-being? If so, Jesus' command would have been very challenging for him. If he sold all of his possessions and gave it to the poor, he would be without resources of his own. He would be subject to the kindness of others for support.

The point is this. The young ruler didn't allow the Law itself to challenge his faith, priorities, and values so Jesus challenged him directly with a task that would speak to him personally.

What did Israel and Moses discover? Religion is intended to keep God at arm's length. Remember when Israel heard the voice coming down from the mountain? The people cried out. They were afraid. They wanted Moses to keep God from speaking to them directly.

But salvation is individual and God is personally involved with the disciple. Jesus commanded the young man to sell all his possessions for the sake of that individual alone. That was HIS challenge. We each have our own personal challenges from God.

all 10 are the principles of righteousness. Do you want me to do to you, what they tell me not to do to you?

If the man next door rests on a Saturday, he will not affect me in the least. He will neither harm me nor benefit me.

But, and there is always a but, if a person rejects and will not obey, Christ said they are lawless and He does not know who they are -- they are rejected,

I agree. But resting on a Saturday is not obligatory for me since I am a Gentile.

Roger, almost all of what is called christianty has one way or another set aside the Torah and The Commandments, that alone is a good reason to obey. It is the MANY that are deceived not the few.

Unfortunately, I have heard similar things about the state of the current church.

 

[dkontner]

Yes, the Rich Young Ruler testified that he was keeping them all. (After what Paul said in Romans 7, one wonders if he was actually keeping the Tenth commandment.) Jesus told the young man to sell all of his possessions and give it to the poor. I note that there is nothing in the Law or the Decalogue commanding a man to sell all of his possessions and give it to the poor. Right? So what is Jesus getting at?

Jesus was testing the man's faith and trust in God. Was the man trusting in his wealth for happiness and well-being? If so, Jesus' command would have been very challenging for him. If he sold all of his possessions and gave it to the poor, he would be without resources of his own. He would be subject to the kindness of others for support.

The point is this. The young ruler didn't allow the Law itself to challenge his faith, priorities, and values so Jesus challenged him directly with a task that would speak to him personally.

What did Israel and Moses discover? Religion is intended to keep God at arm's length. Remember when Israel heard the voice coming down from the mountain? The people cried out. They were afraid. They wanted Moses to keep God from speaking to them directly.

But salvation is individual and God is personally involved with the disciple. Jesus commanded the young man to sell all his possessions for the sake of that individual alone. That was HIS challenge. We each have our own personal challenges from God.

If the man next door rests on a Saturday, he will not affect me in the least. He will neither harm me nor benefit me.

I agree. But resting on a Saturday is not obligatory for me since I am a Gentile.

Unfortunately, I have heard similar things about the state of the current church.

I always wondered about Mark 14... Did he come to follow Jesus? Interesting, isn't it? I don't know, but I love the Lord.

51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body; and the young men laid hold on him:
52 And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

 

[memberofthebride]

Yes, the Rich Young Ruler testified that he was keeping them all. (After what Paul said in Romans 7, one wonders if he was actually keeping the Tenth commandment.) Jesus told the young man to sell all of his possessions and give it to the poor. I note that there is nothing in the Law or the Decalogue commanding a man to sell all of his possessions and give it to the poor. Right? So what is Jesus getting at?

the rich man put his wealth before God which transgressed the Commandment : Thy shall have on other gods before ME. I believe that is why Christ did not list that one, Christ knew that was the one he would break, and today that is a huge sin.

To be a party to the New Covenant one must be grafted into the House of Israel.

There are only two parties to the New Covenant,
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

to Be what is now called a Christian, a member in God's Church and be included in the New Covenant you have to be or become an Israelite.
there are no gentiles in the Covenant, either Covenant only Hebrews, born Hebrew or adopted, either way you can no longer be a gentile.

 

[Aaron56]

the rich man put his wealth before God which transgressed the Commandment : Thy shall have on other gods before ME. I believe that is why Christ did not list that one, Christ knew that was the one he would break, and today that is a huge sin.

To be a party to the New Covenant one must be grafted into the House of Israel.

There are only two parties to the New Covenant,
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

to Be what is now called a Christian, a member in God's Church and be included in the New Covenant you have to be or become an Israelite.
there are no gentiles in the Covenant, either Covenant only Hebrews, born Hebrew or adopted, either way you can no longer be a gentile.

In this context, "gentile" is not the word juxtaposed to "house of Israel". Because this is a spiritual reality, "house of the wicked" is more appropriate. In spiritual Israel, both Jews and Gentiles are included BUT they are not known by their flesh... only by the spirit. This is important because members of Spiritual Israel, like Abraham, were never under the law of Sinai. So even "my law" here must refer to something other than what was given at Sinai.

 

[memberofthebride]

In this context, "gentile" is not the word juxtaposed to "house of Israel". Because this is a spiritual reality, "house of the wicked" is more appropriate. In spiritual Israel, both Jews and Gentiles are included BUT they are not known by their flesh... only by the spirit. This is important because members of Spiritual Israel, like Abraham, were never under the law of Sinai. So even "my law" here must refer to something other than what was given at Sinai.

Genesis 26
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

the word "law" is #8451 Torah

The 12 tribes are Hebrews, Abraham is not a Jew, he is a Hebrew. and Abraham obeyed God's Torah.
God does not changes laws, The Commandments are eternal.
Christ did not abolish the Commandments, He expanded them from just physical to Spiritual,
physical fornication is still sin, fornication in one's mind is now sin.

"The Many" are now expert at watering down the Word of God.
dilute it so it can be handled without interfering with one's life.

 

[Aaron56]

Genesis 26
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

the word "law" is #8451 Torah

The 12 tribes are Hebrews, Abraham is not a Jew, he is a Hebrew. and Abraham obeyed God's Torah.
God does not changes laws, The Commandments are eternal.
Christ did not abolish the Commandments, He expanded them from just physical to Spiritual,
physical fornication is still sin, fornication in one's mind is now sin.

"The Many" are now expert at watering down the Word of God.
dilute it so it can be handled without interfering with one's life.

No. For example here is a commandment given to Adam:

"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
And here are 4 commandments the Lord gave to Abram:

"The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you."
So...
1) Go from your country.
2) Go from your people.
3) Go from your father's household.
4) Await further instructions.

To carry it to the New Testament, here is a commandment the Lord gave Saul/Paul:

So he (Paul), trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
So...
1) Arise.
2) Go into the city.
3) Await further instructions.

Kinda similar, eh?

Right after that account, the Lord commands Ananias:

"So the Lord said to him (Ananias), “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.

So...
1) Arise
2) Go to the street called Straight.
3) Ask about a man named Saul at the house of Judas.

The New Testament is filled with these examples. This is fulfill the axiom Jesus taught “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’"

Hearing and obeying the Spirit is part of the heritage of the saints of the Lord.

 

[Roger316]

To be a party to the New Covenant one must be grafted into the House of Israel.

There are only two parties to the New Covenant,
33 But this [shall be] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

to Be what is now called a Christian, a member in God's Church and be included in the New Covenant you have to be or become an Israelite.
there are no gentiles in the Covenant, either Covenant only Hebrews, born Hebrew or adopted, either way you can no longer be a gentile.

You could be right. I'm not sure. Words like "Israel", "Israelite", "church", and "Gentile" have multiple meanings.

 

[memberofthebride]

No. For example here is a commandment given to Adam:

"And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
And here are 4 commandments the Lord gave to Abram:

"The Lord had said to Abram, “Go from your country, your people and your father’s household to the land I will show you."
So...
1) Go from your country.
2) Go from your people.
3) Go from your father's household.
4) Await further instructions.

To carry it to the New Testament, here is a commandment the Lord gave Saul/Paul:

So he (Paul), trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?”
Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”
So...
1) Arise.
2) Go into the city.
3) Await further instructions.

Kinda similar, eh?

Right after that account, the Lord commands Ananias:

"So the Lord said to him (Ananias), “Arise and go to the street called Straight, and inquire at the house of Judas for one called Saul of Tarsus, for behold, he is praying.

So...
1) Arise
2) Go to the street called Straight.
3) Ask about a man named Saul at the house of Judas.

The New Testament is filled with these examples. This is fulfill the axiom Jesus taught “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’"

Hearing and obeying the Spirit is part of the heritage of the saints of the Lord.

there are individual commands given to individuals. yes, every Word from the mouth of God.

then there are the two great precepts which all mankind are to live by. and will at the return!

love/agape your neighbor is demonstrated and accomplished by not transgressing Commandments 5 - 10

love/agape God, must be demonstrated by not transgressing the first 4 Commandment. or would you prefer cutting your flesh or casting your children into the fire or something just as evil?

Just telling our Father and Jesus Christ we love them, is the same as saying to some poor family; " be warm and filled with food" and then walking away giving them nothing.

Agape is an action word. The "Agape" Christ showed mankind was to die for their sins -- but that death took place while there was not one righteous man on earth. 100% evil sinners under sentence of death.

When Christ died, HE DIED FOR EVIL SINNERS, murderers, rapist, pedophiles people that did offer their own children in sacrifice to Baal. What the Father allowed Christ to do WAS "IS" THE GRACE/KINDNESS OF GOD, Christ died for very evil people --

Christ died for the Pharaoh in Egypt that enslaved Israel,
Christ died so every last man and women that has ever been conceived in the womb, can later repent, be converted and receive the Gift of eternal life.

I feel certain most have no real concept of the Sacrifice Christ made for us, sinners all

 

[Aaron56]

Just telling our Father and Jesus Christ we love them, is the same as saying to some poor family; " be warm and filled with food" and then walking away giving them nothing.

Interesting idea I see often from the law-keepers. It begs the question: what does God need?

 

[memberofthebride]

Interesting idea I see often from the law-keepers. It begs the question: what does God need?

God needs nothing but he wants to give man everything ---- but and as I always say, there is always a but,

But 6000 years of man on this planet proves --- man as he is, will destroy everything. that is all he know how to do. sin!
in fact that is a prophesy Christ gave in Matthew 24 by the end of the 5th Seal man is about to push the buttons that will end life on earth.

thankfully Christ intervenes.

When Christ returns as KING He will rule with a Rod of Iron, all will finally obey.

16 And it shall come to pass, [that] every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17 And it shall be, [that] whoso will not come up of [all] the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that [have] no [rain]; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

and I realize even this prophecy can be twisted or adjusted or some how shown to be nothing.
mankind is basically evil but very smart, that not me, that is what Christ said; "there is not one good, no not ONE!"

 

[TMS]

God needs obedience. The order of the universe needs obedience.

Sin leads to death. Sin seperates us from God. Sin leads to pain and suffering.

God needs people to obey.

He will not force us to obey.

A righteous, holy, sinless people will be living for ever with Jesus because they love to obey and love to follow Jesus.

Jesus is our example .... He was perfectly obedient to the laws.

Sin = transgression of the law.
We can obey only by God's power in us.
The same spirit that was given to Jesus to obey is there for us to obey.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

 

[Mem]

In accepting Gentiles into His (new) covenant, God was effectively proclaiming the Gentiles to be as good as the Jews and, accordingly, the Jews just as "good' as the Gentiles, even with all the teacher's edition they'd been exclusively given.

 

[memberofthebride]

God needs obedience. The order of the universe needs obedience.

Sin leads to death. Sin seperates us from God. Sin leads to pain and suffering.

God needs people to obey.

He will not force us to obey.

A righteous, holy, sinless people will be living for ever with Jesus because they love to obey and love to follow Jesus.

Jesus is our example .... He was perfectly obedient to the laws.

Sin = transgression of the law.
We can obey only by God's power in us.
The same spirit that was given to Jesus to obey is there for us to obey.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

I would say God requires order and obedience, He needs nothing, He has it all.

 

[Magenta]

I always wondered about Mark 14... Did he come to follow Jesus? Interesting, isn't it? I don't know, but I love the Lord.

51 And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body;
and the young men laid hold on him: 52 And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.

Some believe that certain young man to be Mark himself.

 

[PotofSoup]

Have you even read Romans chapter 3 ?,

Hi BBerean,

You asked in a seemly angry written tone, "Where is the written Gentiles law? Let’s see it!"
Ok, but could have asked more nicely. Here it is:

• Genesis 9:4–6 - No murder, no eating flesh with blood, Human life is sacred.
• Acts 15:19–20; 28-29 - abstain from things polluted by idols, sexual immorality, what has been strangled, and from blood.”
• Romans 13:8–10 - The one who loves another has fulfilled the law, Love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
• Galatians 5:14 - The whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Then you said, "Galatians 5 v 18 you say the law is for Jews but not Believing Jews so you contract yourself again." I am humble enough to get correction, so please explain to me where I contract (assume you meant contradict) myself not once, but twice and I will humbly change my thinking?

Yes, I did say the Sabbath covenant is between the Jews and God, are you saying it isn't? When I say between Jews and God, of course I am including believing Jews within that covenant. Believing Jews are still Jews, are you saying they are not?

I was speaking only about the Shabbat, because this thread is supposed to be about the Shabbat, so why are you so intent on discussing the whole law of Moses? Focus on the Shabbat, and if you would like to discuss with me about keeping the law of Moses as a Gentile, then I would be happy to in another thread if one exists. Does one exist? If not, then perhaps you can start a new thread and invite me? Blessings.

 

[BBerean]

Hi BBerean,

You asked in a seemly angry written tone, "Where is the written Gentiles law? Let’s see it!"
Ok, but could have asked more nicely. Here it is:

• Genesis 9:4–6 - No murder, no eating flesh with blood, Human life is sacred.
• Acts 15:19–20; 28-29 - abstain from things polluted by idols, sexual immorality, what has been strangled, and from blood.”
• Romans 13:8–10 - The one who loves another has fulfilled the law, Love does no harm to a neighbor, therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.
• Galatians 5:14 - The whole law is fulfilled in one word: You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

Then you said, "Galatians 5 v 18 you say the law is for Jews but not Believing Jews so you contract yourself again." I am humble enough to get correction, so please explain to me where I contract (assume you meant contradict) myself not once, but twice and I will humbly change my thinking?

Yes, I did say the Sabbath covenant is between the Jews and God, are you saying it isn't? When I say between Jews and God, of course I am including believing Jews within that covenant. Believing Jews are still Jews, are you saying they are not?

I was speaking only about the Shabbat, because this thread is supposed to be about the Shabbat, so why are you so intent on discussing the whole law of Moses? Focus on the Shabbat, and if you would like to discuss with me about keeping the law of Moses as a Gentile, then I would be happy to in another thread if one exists. Does one exist? If not, then perhaps you can start a new thread and

Don’t take it personally the whole thread is way out of whack . We are taking about a false gospel . There is only one law and it has 10 commandments. I’m amazed how modern Christianity is so far removed from the real Christianity found in the scriptures. I thank God I’m able to read it and understand it . It may not come easy , I believed many false doctrines, I learned and was set free by the scriptures. When Jesus said take heed many will come in my name and deceive MANY, he sure ment it . I took him seriously and have found it so . Any one lead by the Spirit is not under the law that would be Jew or gentile. Any one breaking the law sins . Yes it make me angry to see the truth maligned. Think God ever gets angry ? What in the world is the wrath of God all about ? I doubt you or your kind would get far with me . Thanks any way ! May God bless you !

 

[Roger316]

God needs obedience. The order of the universe needs obedience.

Sin leads to death. Sin seperates us from God. Sin leads to pain and suffering.

God needs people to obey.

He will not force us to obey.

A righteous, holy, sinless people will be living for ever with Jesus because they love to obey and love to follow Jesus.

Jesus is our example .... He was perfectly obedient to the laws.

Sin = transgression of the law.
We can obey only by God's power in us.
The same spirit that was given to Jesus to obey is there for us to obey.

1Jn 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Why do you think God needs anything at all?

 

[TMS]

How do you explain the FACT that God blessed and sanctified the Sabbath day at creation? It was made holy before sin and the whole human family was given this for physical, spiritual, and memorial needs.

It is a fact that the physical and mental nature of man demands a designated time of rest to prevent breakdown. Without a Sabbath, the muscular system becomes weakened and cannot support continued action.
Because man is also a social and religious being, he requires this specific time for the exercise of those essential parts of his nature.

The Sabbath is a memorial of God's work during the first week of time.

God rested on the seventh day after six days of labor, and he blessed and sanctified it because he had rested upon it Genesis 2:2-3 God didn't need rest God was not physically or mentally exhausted.. It was for us.
It acts as a golden chain linking man to the Creator, and had it always been observed, there would never have been an idolater or an atheist.
The Sabbath is a sign between God and His people forever, signifying that He is the Lord who sanctifies them Exodus 31:13.

Mar 2:27-28
27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: 28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

The FACT is that the sabbath is holy and God has never changed that.

 

[TMS]

Why do you think God needs anything at all?

God is all mighty
God is all knowing
God is omnipresent. Everywhere.
Does God need to be the 3 things above?
Does God need to be divine? Does God need to be Holy?
Does He need to be Loving in order to give His Son for us?

Does God allow anything?
Does God accept anything or everything?

Jesus needed to be free from sin, to die and to be our creator in order to pay our redemption.

 

[memberofthebride]

Don’t take it personally the whole thread is way out of whack . We are taking about a false gospel . There is only one law and it has 10 commandments. I’m amazed how modern Christianity is so far removed from the real Christianity found in the scriptures. I thank God I’m able to read it and understand it . It may not come easy , I believed many false doctrines, I learned and was set free by the scriptures. When Jesus said take heed many will come in my name and deceive MANY, he sure ment it . I took him seriously and have found it so . Any one lead by the Spirit is not under the law that would be Jew or gentile. Any one breaking the law sins . Yes it make me angry to see the truth maligned. Think God ever gets angry ? What in the world is the wrath of God all about ? I doubt you or your kind would get far with me . Thanks any way ! May God bless you !

When you understand Paul meaning when he used the term "under the law",
it opens many other scriptures of his.

What has the Sacrifice of Christ done for those that accept it, what has it freed us from?

Christ shed blood took us out from UNDER the penalty of death proscribed by LAW.

The Saved are no longer under penalty of death.

Comparing Paul's doctrine, he could not be saying we are no longer "subject to the Law" which is exactly what The MANY demand.

What is it Satan hates -- the Torah which will send him to the bottomless pit.
what is it Christ warns us not to do -- become Lawless.