Some thoughts on the Sabbath...

[TMS]

That one commandment is a stumbling stone and rock of offense to sabbatarians

Why
I'm resting now in the blessed hours of the sabbath and it is a wonderful gift from God (Made for man). I've put aside all my other plans to focus on God.

It really is a blessing. Not a stumbling stone.

It's about spending time with your saviour and creator. It is a great blessing.

 

[TMS]

But now, having died to what bound us, we have been released from the law, so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code." Romans 7:6.

Serve in the new way.

Serve what? Context tells me the law.

We now Serve the law in a new way.

We serve by the Spirit, not by our effort but by the power of the Spirit in us.

The law is written on our hearts and in our minds. Not to be ignored.

We are released from the law but we keep it because the Spirit lives in us.
Not to be saved but because we love to follow the Spirit. Because we love Jesus, because we desire to reflect the character of Jesus.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 

[TMS]

"All who rely on works of the law are under a curse. For it is written: “Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law.” Now it is clear that no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” The law, however, is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.” Galatians 3: 1-12

We are not saved by keeping the Law.

But grace and mercy does not make an excuse for us the transgress the law.

Because Jesus paid the price for our sins do we continue to keep sinning?. No

Faith in God's grace has to be seen in both ways.. faith in the grace that forgives and clears our sins.
Also and more often mentioned in the bible, faith in the grace of God to change and empower us to overcome sin.

Faith in God's power to live a life in obedience to the law. By walking in the Spirit. Only by faith.

Rom 7:24-25 24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[TMS]

The Bible tells us what that means: we died to the law of Moses.

We Died to the flesh
We Died to the carnal nature
We Died to our old life

And are born in the new life.
We are born in the Spirit
We are born in Christ.

If Christ died to remove the law why are we still guilty when we transgress it.

If we are not guilty we do not need a saviour.

I need a saviour because I am guilty of sin. Sin is the transgression of the law.

Your logic does not make sense.. as a sinner before death or baptism I'm guilty but after death and baptism I'm not guilty..... that does not add up.

Jesus is my saviour from sin and death to the flesh results in life in the Spirit.

Gal 5:16-18
16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. 18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

You are not under the law because you do not transgress it when the Spirit is leading you.

 

[mailmandan]

well your not even Christian if you believe that. You have had many of us explain Christianity as it relates to the law. You too are in bondage to the law. that is your choice. But the law has faded and become obsolete. It denies the work of Christ on the cross. You cannot be christian and believe what you just expressed. It runs almost in direct opposition to Christian ethos.

All you have done with those verse reference is proven unequivocally that you do not know anything about the mosaic law or Christianity. You have no clue as to the context of the verses. If you did you would never have come to believe what you believe.

These misguided teachers of the law might as well redefine faith "as" keeping the 10 commandments (with a heavy emphasis on the 4th commandment). It's all they talk about, which makes it obvious what they have placed their faith in/are really trusting in for salvation and it's NOT Jesus Christ ALONE. I was once in a discussion with a previous member of Christian Chat who happened to be a Seventh Day Adventist and when I pointed out to him that his false gospel culminates in "salvation by grace plus law, faith plus works" (Galatians 1:6-9) he tried to deny it but his statement below in blue says it all.

The counterfeit Gospel is out there. What is the other Gospel? It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's Law (10 commandments) from the Cross. It is a Gospel that tries to separate God's 10 commandments from the plan of salvation. God’s Law has always been part of the true Gospel of Christ. The counterfeit Gospel does not have it. God's forever Law (the 10 commandments) is the foundation of both the Old and the New Covenant and the very foundation and basis of the true Gospel of Christ.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Why
I'm resting now in the blessed hours of the sabbath and it is a wonderful gift from God (Made for man). I've put aside all my other plans to focus on God.

It really is a blessing. Not a stumbling stone.

It's about spending time with your saviour and creator. It is a great blessing.

Sabbatarians stumble over the 4th commandment and are offended at the idea of not observing it because it is the only one of the 10 commandments that is specifically fixed to a specific time. Due to weak, or no, faith that sees beyond and transcends temporal things, they can't see how the righteousness demanded by the 4th commandment can be accomplished spiritually, independent of a specific time like all of the other 9 commandments can be.

Being blessed by observing weekly sabbaths and saying they are required to be observed is 2 very different matters. What is required is doing the righeousness of the 4th commandment, which faith in Christ accomplishes. Enjoy your sabbath.

 

[TMS]

Sabbatarians stumble over the 4th commandment and are offended at the idea of not observing it because it is the only one of the 10 commandments that is specifically fixed to a specific time. Due to weak, or no, faith that sees beyond and transcends temporal things, they can't see how the righteousness demanded by the 4th commandment can be accomplished spiritually, independent of a specific time like all of the other 9 commandments can be.

Being blessed by observing weekly sabbaths and saying they are required to be observed is 2 very different matters. What is required is doing the righeousness of the 4th commandment, which faith in Christ accomplishes. Enjoy your sabbath.

Is it possible that you are spiritualising the sabbath commandment when it was never ment to be?

Circumcision has become a spiritual thing of the heart and Paul states clearly that the outward means nothing today.
Rom 2:25-29 it is all about the heart.

According to Genesis 15:6, God promised Abraham a son from his own loins when he was about 84 years old, and the story tells us that Abraham trusted God’s word and it was accounted to him for righteousness:
“And he believed [trusted] in the Lord; and He counted it to him for righteousness.” Genesis 17:24 tells us that Abraham, however, was not circumcised until he was 99 years old, approximately 15 years after he was justified by faith. The crucial question is this: Did the external act of circumcision save or justify Abraham? Of course not! Circumcision was a visible sign that he had experienced
righteousness by faith fifteen years earlier. It was an external sign of an internal experience. Don't miss that.... It was an external sign of an internal experience.

But the sabbath has not been literally removed or replace or changed..

It is Spiritual like all the laws but It is also a specific day.

Like baptism. Baptism is a literal thing but it means nothing if your heart is not changed.

Baptism took the place of circumcision (Colossians 2:11-13). So I ask, is the
external act of baptism mandatory, or is it sufficient simply to invite Jesus into the heart? There are texts in the New
Testament that make the external rite of baptism a condition for salvation. However, when we carefully read these texts, we discern that the visible water
ceremony, though required by God, is not sufficient. The external rite must be preceded by an internal spiritual experience of conversion. The Great Commission makes this clear that belief must precede water baptism.
Mark 16:15-17.

The apostle Peter concurred: “There is also an antitype which now saves us baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh [external], but the answer of a good conscience toward God [internal], through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 3:21-22

Baptism does not make children Christians; neither does it convert them; it is an outward sign, showing that they are sensible that they should be children of God by acknowledging that they believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior and will henceforth live for Christ. If they are not Spiritually converted everything else is useless. The outward action is or should be a sign or declarations of what is happening in the heart.

The sabbath is a sign of our alligence to God
It is a sign of our love for God as our creator and saviour.

You make the effort to be baptised as an outward sign.

Why not make the effort and keep the day holy.

 

[Gideon300]

Serve in the new way.

Serve what? Context tells me the law.

We now Serve the law in a new way.

We serve by the Spirit, not by our effort but by the power of the Spirit in us.

The law is written on our hearts and in our minds. Not to be ignored.

We are released from the law but we keep it because the Spirit lives in us.
Not to be saved but because we love to follow the Spirit. Because we love Jesus, because we desire to reflect the character of Jesus.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Feel free to serve the law that brings death. I serve the Lord Jesus. If you are serving the law, it means that you do not know what it means to be crucified with Christ and you are ignorant of the meaning of the New Creation in Him.

Life in the Spirit is far more difficult than ticking 10 boxes and believing that God is now pleased with you. Maybe that is why so many believers prefer a set of rules to follow.

 

[Gideon300]

Is it possible that you are spiritualising the sabbath commandment when it was never ment to be?

Circumcision has become a spiritual thing of the heart and Paul states clearly that the outward means nothing today.
Rom 2:25-29 it is all about the heart.

According to Genesis 15:6, God promised Abraham a son from his own loins when he was about 84 years old, and the story tells us that Abraham trusted God’s word and it was accounted to him for righteousness:
“And he believed [trusted] in the Lord; and He counted it to him for righteousness.” Genesis 17:24 tells us that Abraham, however, was not circumcised until he was 99 years old, approximately 15 years after he was justified by faith. The crucial question is this: Did the external act of circumcision save or justify Abraham? Of course not! Circumcision was a visible sign that he had experienced
righteousness by faith fifteen years earlier. It was an external sign of an internal experience. Don't miss that.... It was an external sign of an internal experience.

But the sabbath has not been literally removed or replace or changed..

It is Spiritual like all the laws but It is also a specific day.

Like baptism. Baptism is a literal thing but it means nothing if your heart is not changed.

Baptism took the place of circumcision (Colossians 2:11-13). So I ask, is the
external act of baptism mandatory, or is it sufficient simply to invite Jesus into the heart? There are texts in the New
Testament that make the external rite of baptism a condition for salvation. However, when we carefully read these texts, we discern that the visible water
ceremony, though required by God, is not sufficient. The external rite must be preceded by an internal spiritual experience of conversion. The Great Commission makes this clear that belief must precede water baptism.
Mark 16:15-17.

The apostle Peter concurred: “There is also an antitype which now saves us baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh [external], but the answer of a good conscience toward God [internal], through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 3:21-22

Baptism does not make children Christians; neither does it convert them; it is an outward sign, showing that they are sensible that they should be children of God by acknowledging that they believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior and will henceforth live for Christ. If they are not Spiritually converted everything else is useless. The outward action is or should be a sign or declarations of what is happening in the heart.

The sabbath is a sign of our alligence to God
It is a sign of our love for God as our creator and saviour.

You make the effort to be baptised as an outward sign.

Why not make the effort and keep the day holy.

Why not? Why not be circumcised? Why not sacrifice lambs in order to atone for sin? Why not go up to the temple 3 times a year? Ohhhh. You can't. There is no physical temple. God saw to that. And Paul said that circumcision is not only unnecessary but false doctrine. So is Sabbath observance.

 

[Gideon300]

Why
I'm resting now in the blessed hours of the sabbath and it is a wonderful gift from God (Made for man). I've put aside all my other plans to focus on God.

It really is a blessing. Not a stumbling stone.

It's about spending time with your saviour and creator. It is a great blessing.

You can do that any and every day of the week. As it happens, my wife and I had communion last night, Friday around 11.00 pm Australian time. We'll be going to church on Sunday as well. I start my day with Jesus as does my wife. Every day is the Lord's day in our household.

 

[TMS]

Both baptism and a Spiritual conversion is needed.
One reflects the other. The water baptism is an outward sign of the commitment you have made internally.

If you are baptised but have not truly died to self it means nothing.

Both keeping the sabbath and a real relationship with God is important.

The sabbath is a command from God a holy day "made for man" and by keeping it (for the right motive) we are showing God and the world that we love Jesus and acknowledge Him as creator and Lord.

Both the outward keeping and the internal spirit needs to be right.

But if you keep the outward sabbath law all your life, every week, it means nothing if you do not have a real relationship with God. With the wrong motive it means nothing.

The pharisees in Jesus's day did not have the right motives and made the sabbath an external thing. All about worldly, external praise.

The spiritual blessings are wonderful. But you need to keep it the way God said.

Exo 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ...... the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ...... 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

 

[Gideon300]

Both baptism and a Spiritual conversion is needed.
One reflects the other. The water baptism is an outward sign of the commitment you have made internally.

If you are baptised but have not truly died to self it means nothing.

Both keeping the sabbath and a real relationship with God is important.

The sabbath is a command from God a holy day "made for man" and by keeping it (for the right motive) we are showing God and the world that we love Jesus and acknowledge Him as creator and Lord.

Both the outward keeping and the internal spirit needs to be right.

But if you keep the outward sabbath law all your life, every week, it means nothing if you do not have a real relationship with God. With the wrong motive it means nothing.

The pharisees in Jesus's day did not have the right motives and made the sabbath an external thing. All about worldly, external praise.

The spiritual blessings are wonderful. But you need to keep it the way God said.

Exo 20:8-11
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. ...... the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ...... 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

You need to convert to Judaism. "Hear O Israel......" You would be right at home.

 

[TMS]

Why not? Why not be circumcised? Why not sacrifice lambs in order to atone for sin? Why not go up to the temple 3 times a year? Ohhhh. You can't. There is no physical temple. God saw to that. And Paul said that circumcision is not only unnecessary but false doctrine. So is Sabbath observance.

Circumcision means nothing
Rom 2:25-29.
Clearly stated in the word.
Baptism is closely associated with this spiritual circumcision because it symbolizes our death to the old life of sin and our resurrection into a new life with Christ. It is an outward sign of the inward "circumcision made without hands."

Colossians 2:11-12: "In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God..."

That's clear in the bible.

To atone for sin I do not use the blood of Lamb's because that was a type that pointed to Jesus.
While the ancient sacrificial system involved the constant shedding of the blood of beasts, these offerings were merely shadows and types of the true Sacrifice to come.
These ceremonies were a figure for the time then present, but they could never make the worshiper perfect as pertaining to the conscience. Hebrews 9:9.
Jesus, the Lamb of God, was offered once in the end of the world to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself Hebrews 9:26
When Christ was crucified, the inner veil of the temple was rent from top to bottom, signifying that the ceremonial system of sacrificial offerings was ended forever.
Only the blood of Christ can cleanse the soul and keep men from sinning. Through His merits, we may have our robes of character washed and made white. Revelation 7:14
Also Dan 9:27,
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Abolished the law of ordinances.... you research that.

So these types and shadows were introduced because of sin and I do not keep these shadows.

But the sabbath is not the same.
It is Not the same as sabbath observance as you stated above.

The sabbath was MADE FOR MAN before sin. And the Sabbath WAS MADE HOLY before sin.

The 7th day Sabbath is not a shadow ordinance added by God. It was given before Sin.

 

[TMS]

You need to convert to Judaism. "Hear O Israel......" You would be right at home.

No I wouldn't, they do not believe in Jesus as the saviour.
They keep hundreds of laws that were abolished at the cross.

We are all one in Christ.

 

[Gideon300]

No I wouldn't, they do not believe in Jesus as the saviour.
They keep hundreds of laws that were abolished at the cross.

We are all one in Christ.

So why do you obsess over the Sabbath? The church managed well enough meeting on Sundays until Sabbatarians decided to sow discord among the brethren. I don't care what day believers meet. I do care that Sabbatarians dismiss mighty men of God as carnal because they meet on Sundays. Some of those Sunday worshiping "heretics" were burnt at the stake for Christ. Others were imprisoned, stoned, beaten and tortured. Sunday worshiping Watchman Nee founded hundreds of churches in China before the communist takeover. He was imprisoned for 20 years. The communists feared him so much that they kept him in prison until he died. But that's not good enough for SDA.

Meet whenever you like. Leave others to meet when they like. Colossians 2:16

​

 

[TMS]

You can do that any and every day of the week. As it happens, my wife and I had communion last night, Friday around 11.00 pm Australian time. We'll be going to church on Sunday as well. I start my day with Jesus as does my wife. Every day is the Lord's day in our household.

Did you get baptised?

God said the 7th day is the sabbath of the LORD.

The Lord's day is the sabbath.

Why not obey the Lord?

Why do you have communion?

 

[legion]

Is it possible that you are spiritualising the sabbath commandment when it was never ment to be?

Circumcision has become a spiritual thing of the heart and Paul states clearly that the outward means nothing today.
Rom 2:25-29 it is all about the heart.

According to Genesis 15:6, God promised Abraham a son from his own loins when he was about 84 years old, and the story tells us that Abraham trusted God’s word and it was accounted to him for righteousness:
“And he believed [trusted] in the Lord; and He counted it to him for righteousness.” Genesis 17:24 tells us that Abraham, however, was not circumcised until he was 99 years old, approximately 15 years after he was justified by faith. The crucial question is this: Did the external act of circumcision save or justify Abraham? Of course not! Circumcision was a visible sign that he had experienced
righteousness by faith fifteen years earlier. It was an external sign of an internal experience. Don't miss that.... It was an external sign of an internal experience.

But the sabbath has not been literally removed or replace or changed..

It is Spiritual like all the laws but It is also a specific day.

Like baptism. Baptism is a literal thing but it means nothing if your heart is not changed.

Baptism took the place of circumcision (Colossians 2:11-13). So I ask, is the
external act of baptism mandatory, or is it sufficient simply to invite Jesus into the heart? There are texts in the New
Testament that make the external rite of baptism a condition for salvation. However, when we carefully read these texts, we discern that the visible water
ceremony, though required by God, is not sufficient. The external rite must be preceded by an internal spiritual experience of conversion. The Great Commission makes this clear that belief must precede water baptism.
Mark 16:15-17.

The apostle Peter concurred: “There is also an antitype which now saves us baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh [external], but the answer of a good conscience toward God [internal], through the resurrection of Jesus Christ.” 1 Peter 3:21-22

Baptism does not make children Christians; neither does it convert them; it is an outward sign, showing that they are sensible that they should be children of God by acknowledging that they believe in Jesus Christ as their Savior and will henceforth live for Christ. If they are not Spiritually converted everything else is useless. The outward action is or should be a sign or declarations of what is happening in the heart.

The sabbath is a sign of our alligence to God
It is a sign of our love for God as our creator and saviour.

You make the effort to be baptised as an outward sign.

Why not make the effort and keep the day holy.

You're totally forgetting that the Sabbath was a command given to the Israelites only and not to the Gentiles if you actually can read 8th grade English or Greek or Hebrew it's painfully obvious it was directly to the nation of Israel and not to anyone else

 

[BBerean]

This thread is still going ! I’m enjoying the Sabbath now the sun just went down , I have a beautiful view as well overlooking the Columbia River in BC ! Some times I get so blessed ! This one is starting out very well ! It’s amazing how blind people can be to the truth . The god of this world has blinded many . He also uses the scriptures . Remember when Jesus was tempted, he used scriptures out of context of course. Jesus knew them correctly. Remember Jesus said it is written. Every time .

 

[legion]

This thread is still going ! I’m enjoying the Sabbath now the sun just went down , I have a beautiful view as well overlooking the Columbia River in BC ! Some times I get so blessed ! This one is starting out very well ! It’s amazing how blind people can be to the truth . The god of this world has blinded many . He also uses the scriptures . Remember when Jesus was tempted, he used scriptures out of context of course. Jesus knew them correctly. Remember Jesus said it is written. Every time .

Whether or not one observes the Sabbath is a personal choice I'm glad you enjoy it but there is no edict in the Bible to keep it for the Gentiles since it was never applied to them

 

[TMS]

So why do you obsess over the Sabbath? The church managed well enough meeting on Sundays until Sabbatarians decided to sow discord among the brethren.

I don't obsess about it. I just say obey it.
Because God said to obey it.

The church managed for hundreds of years until Martin Luther stood up for the truth. And until people protested against the false teachings.

There are many churches managing today but teaching false doctrines.

Jesus caused problems when He taught the truth.
And many prophets have been killed for teaching the truth. John the baptist...

Mat 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
Joh 15:18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.