Taking a verse beyond what it says .

[throughfaith]

Example
John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin , and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9of sin , because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
' Sin 'in verses 8 and 9 are singular . So the sin is" because they believe not on me;'
But this often gets glossed over and the idea is taught that the Holy Spirit is reproving all manner of sins .
Thoughts ?

 

[Gideon300]

Example
John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin , and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9of sin , because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
' Sin 'in verses 8 and 9 are singular . So the sin is" because they believe not on me;'
But this often gets glossed over and the idea is taught that the Holy Spirit is reproving all manner of sins .
Thoughts ?

Sin is sin. The ultimate sin is rejecting God's gift of salvation through Christ. However, people come to Christ because they realise that they are sinners. Often it is one thing that brings them undone. Most people think that they are righteous and do not need a saviour. Christians know this to be false, of course. If a person can be convicted by a sin, it gets them thinking about their eternal future. For example, ask a self righteous person if they've ever lied. I've never met anyone who can honestly say no to that question. The Holy Spirit can then convict that person. That must happen before anyone can be saved.

 

[Dino246]

Example
John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin , and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9of sin , because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
' Sin 'in verses 8 and 9 are singular . So the sin is" because they believe not on me;'
But this often gets glossed over and the idea is taught that the Holy Spirit is reproving all manner of sins .
Thoughts ?

In English, the word, "sin" is used both specifically, as in, "I committed a sin," and collectively, as in, "I have committed sin". Both are singular. Notice, however, that the article "a" is absent from the second example, as is the case in verse 8 above. That suggests that the word is being used collectively, rather than specifically.

Those who have not believed on Christ stand condemned already, according to Jesus' own words in John 3:18. Verse 16:9 is essentially a restatement of this. People are condemned for their sin (collective) because they don't believe in Jesus.

 

[throughfaith]

Sin is sin. The ultimate sin is rejecting God's gift of salvation through Christ. However, people come to Christ because they realise that they are sinners. Often it is one thing that brings them undone. Most people think that they are righteous and do not need a saviour. Christians know this to be false, of course. If a person can be convicted by a sin, it gets them thinking about their eternal future. For example, ask a self righteous person if they've ever lied. I've never met anyone who can honestly say no to that question. The Holy Spirit can then convict that person. That must happen before anyone can be saved.

But the text in question only says about ' not Believing on Jesus '. Its very specific .

 

[throughfaith]

In English, the word, "sin" is used both specifically, as in, "I committed a sin," and collectively, as in, "I have committed sin". Both are singular. Notice, however, that the article "a" is absent from the second example, as is the case in verse 8 above. That suggests that the word is being used collectively, rather than specifically.

Those who have not believed on Christ stand condemned already, according to Jesus' own words in John 3:18. Verse 16:9 is essentially a restatement of this. People are condemned for their sin (collective) because they don't believe in Jesus.

9of sin , because they believe not on me; So your saying it means ' of sin ( All the bad stuff they have been doing ) , because they believe not on me '?
So is that , they sin because they don't believe on Jesus?( And it doesn't say ' ' 'condemned 'in those verses) . John 3 would be a different text in a different context.

 

[randyk]

Example
John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin , and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9of sin , because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
' Sin 'in verses 8 and 9 are singular . So the sin is" because they believe not on me;'
But this often gets glossed over and the idea is taught that the Holy Spirit is reproving all manner of sins .
Thoughts ?

This isn't "adding" to the Bible. It is "adding" another biblical concept to a limited application of it. Jesus was summarizing the role of the Holy Spirit overall, and not including all of the possible applications of that role.

In convicting of sin, the Holy Spirit, overall, reproves the world of sin because in conveying the knowledge of God they reject it, and so convict themselves of sin and judgment. Beforehand, they may not know the truth, and sin without knowledge. Still guilty of sin, God would have them to know there is a way out before convicting them eternally.

The application of this process takes place throughout the lives of people when the Gospel is preached to them at various times. He does convict people of sin before they know the Gospel, but the ultimate goal is to bring people face to face with the truth of the Gospel so that they can be convicted of sin and judged, should they choose not to embrace the knowledge of Christ and repent.

 

[throughfaith]

In English, the word, "sin" is used both specifically, as in, "I committed a sin," and collectively, as in, "I have committed sin". Both are singular. Notice, however, that the article "a" is absent from the second example, as is the case in verse 8 above. That suggests that the word is being used collectively, rather than specifically.

Those who have not believed on Christ stand condemned already, according to Jesus' own words in John 3:18. Verse 16:9 is essentially a restatement of this. People are condemned for their sin (collective) because they don't believe in Jesus.

Just to be picky ,we have moved away from the text in question when you say //Those who have not believed on Christ stand condemned already, according to Jesus' own words in John 3:18. Verse 16:9 is essentially a restatement of this. People are condemned for their sin (collective) because they don't believe in Jesus.//

//is essentially a restatement of this//
Would be an assumption.
I don't see the verses saying that the Holy spirit ' condemns ' people for their sins ( collectively ) in John 16 ?

 

[throughfaith]

This isn't "adding" to the Bible. It is "adding" another biblical concept to a limited application of it. Jesus was summarizing the role of the Holy Spirit overall, and not including all of the possible applications of that role.

In convicting of sin, the Holy Spirit, overall, reproves the world of sin because in conveying the knowledge of God they reject it, and so convict themselves of sin and judgment. Beforehand, they may not know the truth, and sin without knowledge. Still guilty of sin, God would have them to know there is a way out before convicting them eternally.

The application of this process takes place throughout the lives of people when the Gospel is preached to them at various times. He does convict people of sin before they know the Gospel, but the ultimate goal is to bring people face to face with the truth of the Gospel so that they can be convicted of sin and judged, should they choose not to embrace the knowledge of Christ and repent.

Again, just solely sticking to the verses in question ,without adding in other verses what does the verses say ? Its always tempting for our minds to go to ' doctrines ' or other verses to fill in supposed gaps .

 

[throughfaith]

I believe if we just stick solely to the text, we can see that the Holy Spirit reproves the world of the sin of unbelief ( because they don't believe on Jesus ) This is the crucial ministry of the Holy Spirit ,because not Believing on Jesus is the most critical issue you could think of .

 

[Dino246]

So is that , they sin because they don't believe on Jesus?

No. They are convicted of their sin by the Holy Spirit because they don't believe in Jesus.

John 3 would be a different text in a different context.

Yes, it is a different text in a different context, which says exactly the same thing: people are condemned because they don't believe in Jesus.

 

[Nehemiah6]

But the text in question only says about ' not Believing on Jesus '. Its very specific .

And you are expected to go from the specific to the general. You are not looking at a textbook but divine revelation. Also, many fail to understand that everything is NOT stated explicitly, but many things are implied (based upon the rest of the Bible).

Let's take one example, which is the words of Christ Himself In John 8:24: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins. [Note: "he" is in italics because it is not in the Greek]

So what all is implied here?

1. Christ was addressing Torah observant Jews who were familiar with the book of Exodus. Therefore they would have know the contents of Exodus 3.

2. In Exodus 3 Jesus (the pre-incarnate Word, known as the Angel of the LORD) declared to Moses that He was I AM THAT I AM or I AM.

3. He also declared that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in that chapter.

4. So Jesus was taking the Jews back to that chapter and telling them that He was their God, and if they did not believe that Jesus is God, they would die in their sins.

5. The KJV translators failed to capitalize "I AM" and then added "he" gratuitously to obfuscate the meaning of what Christ was saying. So what was implied by Christ is that unless a person believes wholeheartedly that Jesus is God, he or she cannot be saved, and will not be saved. This is a warning to all the Unitarian cultists.

 

[throughfaith]

And you are expected to go from the specific to the general. You are not looking at a textbook but divine revelation. Also, many fail to understand that everything is NOT stated explicitly, but many things are implied (based upon the rest of the Bible).

Let's take one example, which is the words of Christ Himself In John 8:24: I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM [he], ye shall die in your sins. [Note: "he" is in italics because it is not in the Greek]

So what all is implied here?

1. Christ was addressing Torah observant Jews who were familiar with the book of Exodus. Therefore they would have know the contents of Exodus 3.

2. In Exodus 3 Jesus (the pre-incarnate Word, known as the Angel of the LORD) declared to Moses that He was I AM THAT I AM or I AM.

3. He also declared that He was the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in that chapter.

4. So Jesus was taking the Jews back to that chapter and telling them that He was their God, and if they did not believe that Jesus is God, they would die in their sins.

5. The KJV translators failed to capitalize "I AM" and then added "he" gratuitously to obfuscate the meaning of what Christ was saying. So what was implied by Christ is that unless a person believes wholeheartedly that Jesus is God, he or she cannot be saved, and will not be saved. This is a warning to all the Unitarian cultists.

I think the verses in question. It literally breaks down for us what it means . step by step .
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

 

[Runningman]

Example
John 16
7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin , and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9of sin , because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
' Sin 'in verses 8 and 9 are singular . So the sin is" because they believe not on me;'
But this often gets glossed over and the idea is taught that the Holy Spirit is reproving all manner of sins .
Thoughts ?

It's a description of the ministry of the Holy Spirit. I don't think this is saying that the scope of the Holy Spirit's ministry is confined to the these verses though. There's more material on what the Holy Spirit does.

I think I see your point, though.

 

[throughfaith]

It's a description of the ministry of the Holy Spirit. I don't think this is saying that the scope of the Holy Spirit's ministry is confined to the these verses though. There's more material on what the Holy Spirit does.

I think I see your point, though.

Absolutely. There are other verses of course .

 

[randyk]

Again, just solely sticking to the verses in question ,without adding in other verses what does the verses say ? Its always tempting for our minds to go to ' doctrines ' or other verses to fill in supposed gaps .

You cannot possibly judge what a specific verse means without consider the total context, with all of its ramifications. In other words, you may be demanding only what you wish to hear?

It seems to me the verse is strictly summarizing, as I said, the role of the Holy Spirit. And it has to do with convicting the world of sin by bringing to them the knowledge of Christ. When they reject that knowledge, they are condemned for their sin.

 

[OrphanedRepublican]

Sin is sin. The ultimate sin is rejecting God's gift of salvation through Christ. However, people come to Christ because they realise that they are sinners. Often it is one thing that brings them undone. Most people think that they are righteous and do not need a saviour. Christians know this to be false, of course. If a person can be convicted by a sin, it gets them thinking about their eternal future. For example, ask a self righteous person if they've ever lied. I've never met anyone who can honestly say no to that question. The Holy Spirit can then convict that person. That must happen before anyone can be saved.

Don't people "come to Christ" because they are called? Otherwise, they'll just keep living their life and do their own will.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

And I've also been thinking about what it means to "come to Jesus" or to be "drawn to Jesus" or to be taught of God. There is only one answer I can think of and that's "hearing."

To seek after God or be drawn to Jesus is to pick up his word, read and/or hear his message and receive faith.

 

[throughfaith]

You cannot possibly judge what a specific verse means without consider the total context, with all of its ramifications. In other words, you may be demanding only what you wish to hear?

It seems to me the verse is strictly summarizing, as I said, the role of the Holy Spirit. And it has to do with convicting the world of sin by bringing to them the knowledge of Christ. When they reject that knowledge, they are condemned for their sin.

Again the verses in question specifically does not say" convicting the world of sin by bringing to them the knowledge of Christ" It says
8And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin ( 1 ) , and of righteousness,( 2 ) and of judgment( 3) :

( 1)9Of sin, because they believe not on me;

10Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
It seems to be saying that because they don't believe on Jesus ,this sin ( unbelief) Is the one the Holy Spirit is reproving them of . Which makes sense as this ' not Believing on Jesus is the reason people will not be glorified ,because until they Believe on Jesus, they remain unregenerated ect .

 

[Funkus]

Instead of unbelief being the sin being reproved I think it means the cause of all sin is unbelief in Jesus

 

[throughfaith]

Instead of unbelief being the sin being reproved I think it means the cause of all sin is unbelief in Jesus

Is not believing on Jesus really the ' cause of all sin though? Which verse says this ?

 

[Funkus]

Is not believing on Jesus really the ' cause of all sin though? Which verse says this ?

well ok, it doesn't really say it but if the world did believe there'd be no sin to reprove. i recon it's not quite right to think of 'the world's sin' meaning all people it's more like personifying 'the world' and giving it a sin or reason for it's sin of unbelief... so the believers are supposed to be doing that as well hadn't noticed that before.... hmmm