The absurdity and heresy of Preterism
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She believes in Preterism.
Therefore, the general belief is across the board.
Whether you want to break this down here and there is fine, but the Preterist view is all the same.
Over a million Jews were murdered relating that to Christianity.
To think a single person was exempt from a 3 year hunt and slaughter with destruction is not even remotely plausible.
Just to add some “hearsay” to this discussion......
I heard somewhere (lol!) that Nero and others tried to kill the Apostle John on several occasions but, John would not die - that’s why they had to exile John.
I’m not sure where I heard that from. I just logged it in my brain as something to ponder, research and ask God about.
I have been enjoying all the posts...very interesting.
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Just to add some “hearsay” to this discussion......
I heard somewhere (lol!) that Nero and others tried to kill the Apostle John on several occasions but, John would not die - that’s why they had to exile John.
I’m not sure where I heard that from. I just logged it in my brain as something to ponder, research and ask God about.
I have been enjoying all the posts...very interesting.
I heard somewhere (lol!) that Nero and others tried to kill the Apostle John on several occasions but, John would not die - that’s why they had to exile John.
I’m not sure where I heard that from. I just logged it in my brain as something to ponder, research and ask God about.
I have been enjoying all the posts...very interesting.
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Yes, that’s what I heard, too. Of course, in a court of law “hearsay” is inadmissible as evidence to determine fact.
A lot of these discussions end up in opinions or misunderstandings, not really factual.
It is good to keep a level head and kind heart while discussing.
All facts and opinions have been interesting!
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Years ago I heard this argument as one of the things to consider regarding the dating of the Revelation (I don't recall what the other side made of it--any ideas??):
[quoting old post]
Who do you believe Rev2:13's "Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who WAS SLAIN among you" ?
Some [most?] sources say he was martyred AFTER 70ad... What is your view on that?
Metropolis of Pergamum (Wikipedia) -
"The Christian community of Pergamon was one of the earliest established in Asia Minor during the 1st century AD. It also comprised one of the Seven Churches of Asia mentioned at the New Testament Book of Revelation, written by John the Apostle. According to the Christian tradition, Antipas was appointed bishop of Pergamon, by John. He was martyred there in 92 AD.[3]"
[end quoting that post]
[quoting old post]
Who do you believe Rev2:13's "Antipas [was] my faithful martyr, who WAS SLAIN among you" ?
Some [most?] sources say he was martyred AFTER 70ad... What is your view on that?
Metropolis of Pergamum (Wikipedia) -
"The Christian community of Pergamon was one of the earliest established in Asia Minor during the 1st century AD. It also comprised one of the Seven Churches of Asia mentioned at the New Testament Book of Revelation, written by John the Apostle. According to the Christian tradition, Antipas was appointed bishop of Pergamon, by John. He was martyred there in 92 AD.[3]"
[end quoting that post]
I have already pointed out that the denial and rejection of the Resurrection/Rapture and the visible return of Christ are heresies.
Without the actual Resurrection/Rapture, God's plan redemption for the Church is incomplete. Without the actual Second Coming of Christ, God's plan of redemption for the earth is incomplete. So if you do not think this is heretical, perhaps your should examine your own beliefs.
Without the actual Resurrection/Rapture, God's plan redemption for the Church is incomplete. Without the actual Second Coming of Christ, God's plan of redemption for the earth is incomplete. So if you do not think this is heretical, perhaps your should examine your own beliefs.
There is a difference between quickly or speedily and "soon". Someone can come speedily but not necessarily "soon".
Strong's Concordance
tachu: quickly
Original Word: ταχύ
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: tachu
Phonetic Spelling: (takh-oo')
Definition: quickly
Usage: quickly, speedily.
As we know from Church history, Christ did not return to earth in the first century, neither has He returned to this day. But since a thousand years are as but a day in the sight of God, if Christ comes in the 21st century, it will be speedily from God's perspective.
In any event those cataclysmic cosmic events must occur before the Second Coming of Christ, and they have not happened.
Strong's Concordance
tachu: quickly
Original Word: ταχύ
Part of Speech: Adverb
Transliteration: tachu
Phonetic Spelling: (takh-oo')
Definition: quickly
Usage: quickly, speedily.
As we know from Church history, Christ did not return to earth in the first century, neither has He returned to this day. But since a thousand years are as but a day in the sight of God, if Christ comes in the 21st century, it will be speedily from God's perspective.
In any event those cataclysmic cosmic events must occur before the Second Coming of Christ, and they have not happened.
Here's what I found on "soon" (Gr. taxý):
5035 taxý – properly, swift (quick), without unnecessary delay; used of God's promptness characterizing how He has ordered all physical scenes of life to happen on His perfect timetable without unnecessary "delay" (Rev 1:1, 22:6).
[5035 (taxý) does not mean "immediately" or necessarily "in a very short time" but rather "without any delay."]
HELPS Word-studies
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You're conflating issues... erroneously. The "rapture" is a secondary issue at best, and rejection of that idea is not "heresy" at all. The preterists I have encountered don't deny the resurrection or the "visible return". So, rein in your rhetoric and stop pointing fingers. You are way too quick to decry anyone who disagrees with you. Remember, with the measure you use....
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And Kenneth Gentry's "Before Jerusalem Fell - An Exegetical and Historical Argument for a Pre-A.D. 70 Composition"
which addresses the issues against a later dating of John's revelation.
Free PDF book.
https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1989_gentry_before-jerusalem-fell.html
which addresses the issues against a later dating of John's revelation.
Free PDF book.
https://www.preteristarchive.com/Books/1989_gentry_before-jerusalem-fell.html
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Dino, this answer from Dorothy confirms either a Preterist or a Amill view. Which both sides view the Great Tribulation took place in 70 AD. It also removes the false Pre-Trib Rapture Theory and removes that Jesus will have a physical presence in New Jerusalem for the 1,000 years Satan is bound.
Either view she takes, my answers to your replies are still 100% correct!
Good day, DorothyMae,
Regarding Revelation, it is the context that determines whether or not something is being spoken of literally or symbolically. So to determine what these things are we must look at the overall details.
First of all, in the first verse John sees what he calls a star falling from heaven to the earth, then in the same verse it states that the star was given a key to the Abyss. So right away we can determine that this is not a literal star. Then in verse 2 the star is referred to as a "he." Also, if we look at Rev.12, stars are used symbolically to represent Satan's angels. The conclusion then, is that that this star who is given the key to the Abyss is an angel.
Secondly, this star/angel is opening the Abyss, which is an opening into the earth. In further support of this, when he opens the Abyss smoke like a gigantic furnace billows out, obscuring the sun and the sky.
Thirdly, out of the smoke from the Abyss comes what John calls locusts. However, the fact that they are described as having hair like women's hair, teeth like lions teeth, faces resembling human faces, breastplates of iron, tails and stingers like that of a scorpion and the fact that it is said that they have a ruler over them which is the angel of the Abyss, then it quickly becomes apparent that these are not your garden variety locusts, but are demonic beings being let out of the Abyss. These combined details should dissuade anyone from interpreting these locusts as being helicopters or some other kind of military vehicles.
Based on all of the provided information in the context , what John is describing should be interpreted in the literal sense, recognizing these as demonic entities that humans have just never seen.
Regarding Revelation, it is the context that determines whether or not something is being spoken of literally or symbolically. So to determine what these things are we must look at the overall details.
First of all, in the first verse John sees what he calls a star falling from heaven to the earth, then in the same verse it states that the star was given a key to the Abyss. So right away we can determine that this is not a literal star. Then in verse 2 the star is referred to as a "he." Also, if we look at Rev.12, stars are used symbolically to represent Satan's angels. The conclusion then, is that that this star who is given the key to the Abyss is an angel.
Secondly, this star/angel is opening the Abyss, which is an opening into the earth. In further support of this, when he opens the Abyss smoke like a gigantic furnace billows out, obscuring the sun and the sky.
Thirdly, out of the smoke from the Abyss comes what John calls locusts. However, the fact that they are described as having hair like women's hair, teeth like lions teeth, faces resembling human faces, breastplates of iron, tails and stingers like that of a scorpion and the fact that it is said that they have a ruler over them which is the angel of the Abyss, then it quickly becomes apparent that these are not your garden variety locusts, but are demonic beings being let out of the Abyss. These combined details should dissuade anyone from interpreting these locusts as being helicopters or some other kind of military vehicles.
Based on all of the provided information in the context , what John is describing should be interpreted in the literal sense, recognizing these as demonic entities that humans have just never seen.
If John was in Patmos and wrote about the coming 70 AD Destruction, one would think as Josephus described women eating their own children, he would have mentioned seeing these locust demons. Since he does not mention anything, nor has the ancient Greek writers, the ancient Roman writers, the ancient Asian writers, the ancient Arab writers, etc... it seems like a safe bet these events are to happen later.
And we know they have yet to happen.
What does that tell us?
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Not according to history it is not. John was exiled to Patmos during Domitian's reign, which would put the writing of Revelation somewhere between 81 to 96 AD. The following is an excerpt regarding excavation of Ephesus and I quote:
Other discoveries included a lovely marble bath house with many rooms, a fine library, a large basilica church dedicated to "St. John the Theologian," the "Catacomb of the Seven Sleepers" in which were hundreds of burial places, and a temple dedicated to emperor worship. In it was a statue of Domitian, the emperor who banished John to the island of Patmos and who was persecuting the Christians while Christ was giving his revelation to John.
End quote
Other discoveries included a lovely marble bath house with many rooms, a fine library, a large basilica church dedicated to "St. John the Theologian," the "Catacomb of the Seven Sleepers" in which were hundreds of burial places, and a temple dedicated to emperor worship. In it was a statue of Domitian, the emperor who banished John to the island of Patmos and who was persecuting the Christians while Christ was giving his revelation to John.
End quote
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