The absurdity and heresy of Preterism
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Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
(Zec 13:7-9)
(Zec 13:7-9)
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Yup, that's what Scripture says...
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
(Zec 13:7-9)
That will be the remnant Jews who are saved (in bold)
Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones. And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
(Zec 13:7-9)
That will be the remnant Jews who are saved (in bold)
This was probably the point at which God blinded Israel:
ACTS 28: WILFUL BLINDNESS LEADS TO JUDICIAL BLINDNESS
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see withtheir eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
ACTS 28: WILFUL BLINDNESS LEADS TO JUDICIAL BLINDNESS
25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see withtheir eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
28 Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.
29 And when he had said these words, the Jews departed, and had great reasoning among themselves.
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Both Paul and John wrote to the church ... the believers.
You stated in Post #974 that it was "borderline cruel" for God to send warning to churches of events that were to take place in the future.
I pointed out to you that John wrote (according to Rev 1:19) "the things he saw, the things which are and the things which shall be hereafter". I also pointed out that I believe it would be cruel for God not to give instruction to future believers. (Post #979),
You then stated "My position is it was for them and they understood. Ephesus was for sure meant as what was threatened came to pass" in Post #981.
I replied in Post #988 that "By insinuating that the writing could only benefit the specific church mentioned and that no other church can learn and benefit from the instruction except that church is not proper understanding of the purpose of Scripture."
You now claim you "do not see what one man writing letters to churches has to do with another man giving warnings from the Lord".
Why read Scripture at all if that is your position???
Believers are to study God's Word ... 2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Again, according to Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter
things which are ... things taking place at the time John wrote.
things which shall be hereafter ... things which will take place in the future.
and even now ... 1900+ years after John wrote ... there are things written by John which have yet to take place.
You have already agreed that "the resurrection and great judgment have not yet occurred" (Post #968).
so for you to insist that the Greek word τάχει of Rev 1:1 means what John wrote will "happen in a few years" is somewhat ludicrous.
Perhaps it would be better if you would just acknowledge that maybe you do not fully comprehend the meaning of the Greek word τάχει of Rev 1:1.
Or maybe you can explain how 1900+ years equals "a few years".
sounds somewhat dispensationalist to me ...
You stated in Post #974 that it was "borderline cruel" for God to send warning to churches of events that were to take place in the future.
I pointed out to you that John wrote (according to Rev 1:19) "the things he saw, the things which are and the things which shall be hereafter". I also pointed out that I believe it would be cruel for God not to give instruction to future believers. (Post #979),
You then stated "My position is it was for them and they understood. Ephesus was for sure meant as what was threatened came to pass" in Post #981.
I replied in Post #988 that "By insinuating that the writing could only benefit the specific church mentioned and that no other church can learn and benefit from the instruction except that church is not proper understanding of the purpose of Scripture."
You now claim you "do not see what one man writing letters to churches has to do with another man giving warnings from the Lord".
Why read Scripture at all if that is your position???
Believers are to study God's Word ... 2 Tim 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Again, according to Revelation 1:19 Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which are, and the things which shall be hereafter
things which are ... things taking place at the time John wrote.
things which shall be hereafter ... things which will take place in the future.
and even now ... 1900+ years after John wrote ... there are things written by John which have yet to take place.
You have already agreed that "the resurrection and great judgment have not yet occurred" (Post #968).
so for you to insist that the Greek word τάχει of Rev 1:1 means what John wrote will "happen in a few years" is somewhat ludicrous.
Perhaps it would be better if you would just acknowledge that maybe you do not fully comprehend the meaning of the Greek word τάχει of Rev 1:1.
Or maybe you can explain how 1900+ years equals "a few years".
sounds somewhat dispensationalist to me ...
I actually meant it. I will just post this here and hope no one to whom it applies reads it, but sometimes I wonder how some posters will feel when they stand before the Living God and the name they chose to be called here will be brought before the whole of the Kingdom of Heaven. If an angel calls the roll and I say "here" to "DorothyMae" I will have no cause for embarassement. If some of these names are called and the one who chose to have others call them that have to say "here" admitting they designed themselves as a rather lofty or at least quite flattering title, it might not feel so good at that moment.
^ For the record (in case you're interested), the "title" (if you wanna call it that) I chose to use as a username, I chose for the purpose of pointing toward the Word of God (not "myself"). Hope that helps you see my perspective, on that. 
[it comes from a quote by one regarding how to tell it is the true Word of God (re: the Bible), meaning, how to tell which book out there is the true Word of God (commonly asked by those who have yet to come to faith / are unsaved / don't know Christ yet...)]
[it comes from a quote by one regarding how to tell it is the true Word of God (re: the Bible), meaning, how to tell which book out there is the true Word of God (commonly asked by those who have yet to come to faith / are unsaved / don't know Christ yet...)]
A word of the Lord in prophesay claims a different authority than an epistle.
Since those churches were about to suffer terribly and the whole of christendom was equally suffering as would never happen again in human history, it was. But my position is that the letters were meant for them.
Well, the end of the book tells of a time that is still for the hereafter. The letters written to those churchs was not for the hereafter. The book address different points in time as well as different events.
Let's see how this works in applying it in real life. What does the letter to Ephesus in Revelation tell your church that they responded to in real life differently than the letter Paul wrote to Ephesus which threatened no action if the church did not comply?
Because a prophesy is different than an epistle which is again different than poetry which is again different than historical accounts.
I just rightly divided the word of truth for you above. Prophesy with warnings for non-compliance are different than historical accounts which are different than the gospels, etc. That is rightly dividing the word.
The future was the future for John does not mean it is our future. This you are missing. You seem to think the future for John is the future for us. It was future at the time of the writing. It is the past, some of it, for us.
As for the "few years," the passage is refering to the slaughter of the Christians during the reign of Nero that was not yet complete but soon would be. That was future for them but is not past for us.
Since those churches were about to suffer terribly and the whole of christendom was equally suffering as would never happen again in human history, it was. But my position is that the letters were meant for them.
Well, the end of the book tells of a time that is still for the hereafter. The letters written to those churchs was not for the hereafter. The book address different points in time as well as different events.
Let's see how this works in applying it in real life. What does the letter to Ephesus in Revelation tell your church that they responded to in real life differently than the letter Paul wrote to Ephesus which threatened no action if the church did not comply?
Because a prophesy is different than an epistle which is again different than poetry which is again different than historical accounts.
I just rightly divided the word of truth for you above. Prophesy with warnings for non-compliance are different than historical accounts which are different than the gospels, etc. That is rightly dividing the word.
The future was the future for John does not mean it is our future. This you are missing. You seem to think the future for John is the future for us. It was future at the time of the writing. It is the past, some of it, for us.
As for the "few years," the passage is refering to the slaughter of the Christians during the reign of Nero that was not yet complete but soon would be. That was future for them but is not past for us.
^ For the record (in case you're interested), the "title" (if you wanna call it that) I chose to use as a username, I chose for the purpose of pointing toward the Word of God (not "myself"). Hope that helps you see my perspective, on that.
[it comes from a quote by one regarding how to tell it is the true Word of God (re: the Bible), meaning, how to tell which book out there is the true Word of God]
[it comes from a quote by one regarding how to tell it is the true Word of God (re: the Bible), meaning, how to tell which book out there is the true Word of God]
^ It just means, the Bible proves itself true.
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1 John 5 -
9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.
13 I have written these things to you, the ones believing in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
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1 John 5 -
9 If we receive the testimony of men, the testimony of God is greater. For this is the testimony of God that He has testified concerning His Son. 10 The one believing in the Son of God has the testimony in himself; the one not believing God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed in the testimony that God has testified concerning His Son.
11 And this is the testimony: that God has given to us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 The one having the Son has life; the one not having the Son of God does not have life.
13 I have written these things to you, the ones believing in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
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Well, speaking for myself, whenever I read "Nehemiah6" (that username), I always *think* of the Book of Nehemiah chpt 6 IN THE BIBLE (not sure that's what HE intended, but it's what *I* think of when reading his choice of usernames ). I cannot really control what others think, but I do know that some people have a natural tendency to put the worst possible spin on things, for whatever reason.
(not sure that's what HE intended, but it's what *I* think of when reading his choice of usernames ). I cannot really control what others think, but I do know that some people have a natural tendency to put the worst possible spin on things, for whatever reason.We were talking about the book of Revelation, not Zech. The book of Revelation is talking about the wrath of God being poured out in my view on Harlot Israel for killing the prophets. And it actually says that they refused to repent even after the plagues. Do you want the reference for that?
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Well, speaking for myself, whenever I read "Nehemiah6" (that username), I always *think* of the Book of Nehemiah chpt 6 IN THE BIBLE (not sure that's what HE intended, but it's what *I* think of when reading his choice of usernames ). I cannot really control what others think, but I do know that some people have a natural tendency to put the worst possible spin on things, for whatever reason.
(not sure that's what HE intended, but it's what *I* think of when reading his choice of usernames ). I cannot really control what others think, but I do know that some people have a natural tendency to put the worst possible spin on things, for whatever reason.