The Doctine of Oneness

[Cup-of-Ruin]

God takes on 3 roles himself at one time. He took on the role of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. He begot Jesus, the Son, and since there can only be one God, it is safe to assume that Jesus, coming out of God, was God.

Is Jesus the Father? No, because that's not the role God is playing in that persona of Himself.

Is the Father the Holy Spirit? No, because that's not the role God is playing in that persona of Himself. If He was, our prayers would be answered inside ourselves, and in 2 places in heaven, at the same time.

It's the Father's duty to hear the prayers. It's the Spirit's duty to send them up. Both are God.

It's like an actor who plays multiple roles in a movie. Think of The Nutty Professor. Eddie Murphy is on the screen in multiple roles at the same time. Is he still the same person? Yes. God is like that, except instead of having to piece together the scenes, he's literally playing the multiple roles at the same time.

How many 'roles' has God taken? Is the act of the Creation one 'role' or three?

 

[CarrierOfChrist]

How many 'roles' has God taken? Is the act of the Creation one 'role' or three?

All 3 had a role in the Creation. The "Creation" isn't a role, it was a job, done by all 3.

 

[CarrierOfChrist]

Going to bed now, I'm expecting some COHERENT rebuttals when I return!

 

[collective]

my bible says that Jesus is the father
Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a child is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting father, The Prince of Peace 7a Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, KJV

 

[MahogonySnail]

That verse does not say "Jesus is the Father". The term father was used by the Hebrews in a variety of contexts.

Barnes (theologian) says:

The Hebrews used the term father in a great variety of senses - as a literal father, a grandfather, an ancestor, a ruler, an instructor. The phrase may either mean the same as the Eternal Father, and the sense will be, that the Messiah will not, as must be the ease with an earthly king, however excellent, leave his people destitute after a short reign, but will rule over them and bless them forever (Hengstenberg); or it may be used in accordance with a custom usual in Hebrew and in Arabic, where he who possesses a thing is called the father of it.

The term Father is not applied to the Messiah here with any reference to the distinction in the divine nature, for that word is uniformly, in the Scriptures, applied to the first, not to the second person of the Trinity.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

That verse does not say "Jesus is the Father". The term father was used by the Hebrews in a variety of contexts.

Barnes (theologian) says:

Isaiah 9:8

"The Lord's word into Jacob and it hath lighted on Israel"


Who is the word?

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God." John 1;1

So the word is and was God, and Genesis says that God created the heaven and earth and that God is one, having no peers and no Saviours beside Himself being God Supreme whom is the Father the Father being God and God was the Word and the Word is Jesus Christ...that equals One God!

 

[MahogonySnail]

This is the foundation of the doctrine of the Trinity:
1. that the second person is in some sense "distinct" from the first. (with God)
2. that he is intimately united with the first person in essence, so that there are not two or more Gods. (was God)
3. that the second person may be called by the same name; has the same attributes; performs the same works; and is entitled to the same honors with the first, and that therefore he is "the same in substance, and equal in power and glory," with God.

 

[Cup-of-Ruin]

This is the foundation of the doctrine of the Trinity:
1. that the second person is in some sense "distinct" from the first. (with God)

Denotes seperation.

"Distinct": distinguished as not being the same, not identical; seperate, different in nature and attribute; dissimilar.

2. that he is intimately united with the first person in essence, so that there are not two or more Gods. (was God)

Contadiction of 1st statement.

3. that the second person may be called by the same name; has the same attributes; performs the same works; and is entitled to the same honors with the first, and that therefore he is "the same in substance, and equal in power and glory," with God.

Contradiction of 1st statement.

 

[MahogonySnail]

Conjoined twins, two people or one?

 

[MahogonySnail]

Let's just look at part of the passage first before we deal with any apparent contradictions

and the Word was with God

denotes separation. The word "with" means with. The same thing Jesus said how he was with God in John 17:5 so there must be separation before the Son was incarnated, therefore the oneness doctrine which says the Son only existed after incarnation is easily disproven.

All statements in John 1:1 must agree, and the one that says Christ was with God does not agree with Oneness doctrine .

 

[collective]

True mahogany snail, I stand corrected, His name shall be called .... everlasting father, and NT Immanuel but Its all in the name of Yeshua.... Jesus

 

[watchmen]

my bible says that Jesus is the father
Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a child is given, and the government shall be upon his shoulder; and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting father, The Prince of Peace 7a Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, KJV

Amen collective, that is what my Bible says as well.

 

[watchmen]

Just remember this:

Exd 34:14For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:
Deu 6:4¶Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
Our Eternal Father says: Isa 43:11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Our Eternal Father our Lord says:
Isa 45:21Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have]not I the LORD? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.
Our Father our Saviour says:
Isa 49:26And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
Isa 60:16Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob.
Our Father was manifested in the flesh:
Luk 2:11For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
Jhn 4:42And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.

Yes, can anyone read Isaiah and still believe there are 3 seperate distinct gods?

I certainly cannot.

 

[stillearning]

This is the foundation of the doctrine of the Trinity:
1. that the second person is in some sense "distinct" from the first. (with God)
2. that he is intimately united with the first person in essence, so that there are not two or more Gods. (was God)
3. that the second person may be called by the same name; has the same attributes; performs the same works; and is entitled to the same honors with the first, and that therefore he is "the same in substance, and equal in power and glory," with God.

How many people are in the Godhead?? How many gods are in the Godhead?? How many lords do we have?? How mant saviours do we have?? How many lights shine?? How many thrones are in heaven ?? How many kings do we have??

 

[CarrierOfChrist]

I certainly cannot.

Because you have no imagination.. what isn't earthly natural seems impossible to you. Guys, honestly, we're almost there, lol.

Philippians 2:5 - Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

 

[watchmen]

Because you have no imagination.. what isn't earthly natural seems impossible to you. Guys, honestly, we're almost there, lol.

Philippians 2:5 - Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
6 Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
7 but made himself nothing,
taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.

I have an imagination, but that imagination will not carry me beyond what God says to be true. Once again you are correct, nothing is impossible for God. That is how Jesus can be The father and the Son.

 

[CarrierOfChrist]

I have an imagination, but that imagination will not carry me beyond what God says to be true. Once again you are correct, nothing is impossible for God. That is how Jesus can be The father and the Son.

Then it's a matter of simple interpretation. You say "Jesus can be The father and the Son", but I say "God" can be the father and the son. Jesus could be, being that he's God and all, but he's not. He's called the Son for a reason. The only way a Son can be a Father is if he's not his own. He's the Father of Christians. He started Christianity; therefore, he's the Founding Father. The Everlasting Father/King of the Christians. That's what I believe Isaiah 9:6 was referring to.

Why did God say "Let US make man in OUR image..." when he was creating, if he was only the Father at the time?

 

[watchmen]

Then it's a matter of simple interpretation. You say "Jesus can be The father and the Son", but I say "God" can be the father and the son. Jesus could be, being that he's God and all, but he's not. He's called the Son for a reason. The only way a Son can be a Father is if he's not his own. He's the Father of Christians. He started Christianity; therefore, he's the Founding Father. The Everlasting Father/King of the Christians. That's what I believe Isaiah 9:6 was referring to.

Why did God say "Let US make man in OUR image..." when he was creating, if he was only the Father at the time?

El means god Elohim is the pluar, The reason scripture says ''let us'' is because in the original Hebrew language there were no captital letters, so they used the plural to distinguish God from the other god's or angels that you could be refering to when the word El is used. Understand? didn't think you would

 

[CarrierOfChrist]

El means god Elohim is the pluar, The reason scripture says ''let us'' is because in the original Hebrew language there were no captital letters, so they used the plural to distinguish God from the other god's or angels that you could be refering to when the word El is used. Understand? didn't think you would

"Understand? didn't think you would " Wow, that was pretty offensive man. Anyway, was Hebrew your major in college?

 

[1still_waters]

Ok folks we have enough threads on the oneness issue going. I'm closing this one so we can get some fresher topics on the board.