The Doctrinal Belief of a Pre-Tribulation Resurrection. Is not spoken of in the Word of God. It was created by a sick and deranged woman

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Dec 30, 2019
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I never read If there is third coming in the bible
The second coming is when Jesus come for His Church /Bride. He meets them in the air and His feet never touch the ground. So this is sometimes referred to as a secret rapture. There will be lot of disaster in the world and people will not notice the church is gone. The harlot church will still be here. Then the third coming is when His feet actually touch the ground at the Mount of Olives. This is when there will be an earthquake. We read about this in Acts: ""Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts1:11)
 
Dec 30, 2019
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Or, they may have debt from seminary.
I remember talking to a pastor at I think a Kenneth Hagin style faith church. He thought it was perfectly acceptable for the pastors in training to work at a convenience store to pay for their education. I could never grasp the concept of how it was ok to destroy people with junk food, alcohol & cigarettes based on the logic that if you were not doing it someone else would. For me I would rather allow someone else to do the devils work. I have a son that plans to graduate debt free from college. Although he is in engineering and they pay them $20 an hour for their intern. So it may not be fair to compare him to people that do not get paid for their internship.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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The question is, does Scripture require this type of generosity from all?
The Bible says: "Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." (Luke 6:38) I am considered to be a hoarder because I have so much stuff. Even though I try to give as much of it away as I can. I remember times like when I was in the army and we could fit all of our stuff in a duffel bag. So we did not own what we could not carry and travel with. My wife is mad at me for buying the river rocks for a rock garden. But just today the kids were doing their craft to glue things on the rocks and they took some of them home with them. You know they will like use a glue gun and spell out their name and put glitter on it and stuff like that. When I was taking my sundays school teacher training classes I started to get into that crafty sort of stuff to keep the kids busy. So they kind of expect I am going to take their electronics away from them and expect them to make things with their hands. Even if they just have sticks and stones to work with.
 

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Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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The second coming is when Jesus come for His Church /Bride. He meets them in the air and His feet never touch the ground. So this is sometimes referred to as a secret rapture. There will be lot of disaster in the world and people will not notice the church is gone. The harlot church will still be here. Then the third coming is when His feet actually touch the ground at the Mount of Olives. This is when there will be an earthquake. We read about this in Acts: ""Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven." (Acts1:11)



But the second coming happen after tribulation isn't It?


Matt 24
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

And bible never mention third coming.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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But, it is not wrong for a Christian to create sound Christian materials and charge for them.
Today the trend seems to be that they give away their teaching on youtube and then they sell their books for the people that want to support their ministry. Actually if people want to learn how to edit their movies they can make money doing that. So if you want to support them you can watch the commercials. If not then you can use your ad blocker. In some cases it is possible to make two or three thousand dollars off of one of those videos. I had a litter of kittens here and I wanted to film them playing, but it is difficult to figure out how to do that. I see a women on there she give bible teaching and prophecy. People donate all sorts of money to her. Even you can see on the screen people giving her $50. They just want to support her in what she is doing. I do not see her spending huge amounts of time trying to extort money from people. It just seems to be something people want to do.
 
Dec 30, 2019
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But the second coming happen after tribulation isn't It?
I have been taught that the second coming for the church is pretrib. Then Jesus returns with the church post trib. All believers are "raptured" out of here when they die. God will not pour out His wrath on His children. I prayed and told God at one time I would be willing to go through the tribulation if I could help people. He said that there is nothing that I would be able to do at that point in time. He will be doing something different then what He is currently doing during the time and age we are in right now. My understanding is that the "Jewish" people will teach the Bible during the trib and they are preparing for that right now. I have some of their books here but they are more like an encyclopedia then regular books. More for reference.

I just go by what adds up to me and makes sense. People need to figure this out for themselves. The Holy Spirit is to be our Teacher and our Guide. We do not need man to teach us. People will confuse you if you try to figure out what they believe because there are contradictions and things do not always add up and when you ask them questions they get mad at you.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
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You said: The trial of the Church is from Antichrist.
Has the Antichrist been identified by the way?
No he has not yet been identified. But when He is true believers will see him for what he really is but most of the rest of the world will be manipulated by him into believing he is the returned Christ.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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I have been taught that the second coming for the church is pretrib. Then Jesus returns with the church post trib. All believers are "raptured" out of here when they die. God will not pour out His wrath on His children. I prayed and told God at one time I would be willing to go through the tribulation if I could help people. He said that there is nothing that I would be able to do at that point in time. He will be doing something different then what He is currently doing during the time and age we are in right now. My understanding is that the "Jewish" people will teach the Bible during the trib and they are preparing for that right now. I have some of their books here but they are more like an encyclopedia then regular books. More for reference.

I just go by what adds up to me and makes sense. People need to figure this out for themselves. The Holy Spirit is to be our Teacher and our Guide. We do not need man to teach us. People will confuse you if you try to figure out what they believe because there are contradictions and things do not always add up and when you ask them questions they get mad at you.
But you believe second coming and rapture is in the same time

So If second coming after tribulation than rapture after tribulation.

If A~B
And B~C

So



29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
544
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But you believe second coming and rapture is in the same time

So If second coming after tribulation than rapture after tribulation.

If A~B
And B~C

So



29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
I have studied all of the different aspects of the different end time doctrines and I have found that a lot of folks are really hung up on the rapture verses the second coming.
e only one time that Christ will return and raise us from our graves. Not twice. Even if you are a pre-tribber you don't believe in a second time that we will be raised from the grave and at the end of the so called seven years of tribulation there will not be another rapture/resurrection.
The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek ἁρπαγησόμεθα as rapiemur[17] meaning "we are caught up" or "we are taken away" from the Latin verb rapio meaning "to catch up" or "take away".[18]
The reason why the word "Rapture" is not written in the bible is because it is a Latin Word, not an English word. Both words are talking about the same event. The Resurrection.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
1,371
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I have studied all of the different aspects of the different end time doctrines and I have found that a lot of folks are really hung up on the rapture verses the second coming.
e only one time that Christ will return and raise us from our graves. Not twice. Even if you are a pre-tribber you don't believe in a second time that we will be raised from the grave and at the end of the so called seven years of tribulation there will not be another rapture/resurrection.
The Latin Vulgate translates the Greek ἁρπαγησόμεθα as rapiemur[17] meaning "we are caught up" or "we are taken away" from the Latin verb rapio meaning "to catch up" or "take away".[18]
The reason why the word "Rapture" is not written in the bible is because it is a Latin Word, not an English word. Both words are talking about the same event. The Resurrection.
Yep that is what I believe

Tribulation > rapture and second coming for 1000 years kingdom

I never read about third coming

But Logically speaking Pretrib must believe third coming

Second coming and rapture > tribulation> third coming for 1000 years kingdom
 
Jan 9, 2020
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From my own research, especially holding pre-trib views because that's what I was taught until a fellow Christian told me to just read those verses especially the famous one of being caught up in the air, you realize the getting caught up in the air is at Christ's second coming so after the Tribulation period.

But another view if you take wrath into consideration, is one called pre-wrath, so we go through the non wrath parts, but even then it's hard to reconcile the getting caught up in the air verse which happens at the very end, and I always though who are all these saints that die during the tribulation period, given only a handful of people get saved say literally 144,000..... Where is the mass prosecution and murder of Christians?

But if you research it a lot pre-trib is actually the weakest argument, the way I look at it also is plan for going through everything, and if god spares you earlier great! but if you're mentally expecting to be raptured you might have a faith crises during one of the hardest times in human history.
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
11,769
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another view if you take wrath into consideration, is one called pre-wrath, so we go through the non wrath parts, but even then it's hard to reconcile the getting caught up in the air verse which happens at the very end, and I always though who are all these saints that die during the tribulation period, given only a handful of people get saved say literally 144,000..... Where is the mass prosecution and murder of Christians?
I believe tribulation for Christian mean persecution, not wrath of God

For Example Stephen stoned to death.

This is not wrath of God but It is persecution or tribulation.

Persecution for Christian had been exixst since apostle time, but Jesus say It Will be worse to the point No body able to buy and sale without the mark of the beast.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
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From my own research, especially holding pre-trib views because that's what I was taught until a fellow Christian told me to just read those verses especially the famous one of being caught up in the air, you realize the getting caught up in the air is at Christ's second coming so after the Tribulation period.
Leading up to Jesus' return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom, the wrath of God (the tribulation period), will take place via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. Since Jesus has already experienced God's wrath on behalf of every believer, satisfying it completely, then we cannot and will not go through the time of God's wrath, which will come upon the whole entire world.

But another view if you take wrath into consideration, is one called pre-wrath, so we go through the non wrath parts, but even then it's hard to reconcile the getting caught up in the air verse which happens at the very end, and I always though who are all these saints that die during the tribulation period, given only a handful of people get saved say literally 144,000..... Where is the mass prosecution and murder of Christians?
Jesus, as the Lamb, is the One who will be opening the seals, which lead into the trumpets and bowl judgments. The opening of the first seal is the start of God's wrath. And since Jesus is the One who is opening them, then He is responsible for carrying out God's wrath. And since the first seal initiates God's wrath, then the church must be gathered prior to the first seal being opened.

But if you research it a lot pre-trib is actually the weakest argument, the way I look at it also is plan for going through everything, and if god spares you earlier great! but if you're mentally expecting to be raptured you might have a faith crises during one of the hardest times in human history.
Actually, Pre-trib is the strongest position! When a person believes, he/she is credited with the righteousness of Christ and reconciled to God. God's wrath no longer rests upon the believer and therefore, believers will not be left on the earth to go through the time of God's wrath. The church is the Lord's bride. He is not going to first beat up His bride and then gather her afterwards.

The Lord promised believers that He was going to the Father's house to prepare places for us and that He would come back to get us so that we could be where He is, i.e. the Father's house which is in heaven. I Thess.4:16-17 is the detailed account of the fulfillment of John 14:1-3 which is the gathering of the church.

Everything that God does is a legal process. Since Jesus already satisfied God's wrath on every believers behalf, then that requirement has been taken care of. Most people who claim that the church is going to be on the earth during the time of God's wrath, don't understand the severity and magnitude of said wrath. Nor do they understand the difference between the trials and tribulations which come at the hands of mankind and the powers of darkness vs. God direct wrath that He will be pouring out.

Believers are not guilty of God's wrath, because Jesus has already experienced it for us. It's been satisfied.

We are told by Jesus and the apostles many times, to be watching and ready for His return to get us. Regarding Paul's detailed account of the gathering of the church, he said to comfort each other with those words. In writing to Timothy, he also referred to our being gathered as the blessed hope. That said, if the church was to go through the wrath of God, we would have no reason to comfort one another and it would be no blessed hope. Those who believe in a post-trib gathering would have believers in Christ being punished right along with the wicked, as though there was no difference. But you brothers are not in darkness so that this day should take you by suprise.

Believers will be gone before that first seal is opened.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,385
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From my own research, especially holding pre-trib views because that's what I was taught until a fellow Christian told me to just read those verses especially the famous one of being caught up in the air, you realize the getting caught up in the air is at Christ's second coming so after the Tribulation period.

But another view if you take wrath into consideration, is one called pre-wrath, so we go through the non wrath parts, but even then it's hard to reconcile the getting caught up in the air verse which happens at the very end, and I always though who are all these saints that die during the tribulation period, given only a handful of people get saved say literally 144,000..... Where is the mass prosecution and murder of Christians?

But if you research it a lot pre-trib is actually the weakest argument, the way I look at it also is plan for going through everything, and if god spares you earlier great! but if you're mentally expecting to be raptured you might have a faith crises during one of the hardest times in human history.
Exactly, I only believed the pre-trib position because from the time I was saved at quite a young age I was told what those few verses must mean. Also It's easy to believe because who doesn't want a quick, easy way out of trouble? The flesh doesn't want things to be difficult.

The pre-trib position hangs on very few verses and even those have to be twisted to make them fit the extra-biblical narrative. The theory doesn't stand up to independent and honest Bible Study. It's the resurrection and the return of Jesus. "Rapture" is simply the resurrection for those who are alive when he returns.
 
Mar 7, 2020
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No he has not yet been identified. But when He is true believers will see him for what he really is but most of the rest of the world will be manipulated by him into believing he is the returned Christ.
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.
Wrong! The Antichrist is Antipope John Paul the !!
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
544
118
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Yep that is what I believe

Tribulation > rapture and second coming for 1000 years kingdom

I never read about third coming

But Logically speaking Pretrib must believe third coming

Second coming and rapture > tribulation> third coming for 1000 years kingdom
No Pre-tribbers don't believe in a third coming they believe that the resurrction/rapture will take place before 7 years of tribulation, Next the so called 7 years of tribulation will take place and at the end of the 7 years the 1000 years of the reign of Christ will begin. When would a third coming take place if Christ is here on earth to reign for 1000 years? IF there is a third "rapture" that would mean that there will be two times when Christ would raise us from the grave.You should do a little research on the Pre-Trib beliefs.
There is a second resurrection but that takes place after the 1000 year reign but there is no second coming of Christ. Only one time does Christ appear in the clouds/glory of God and only once are the dead in Christ raised from the grave because after that there will be no one in any graves who will have died in Christ between the time of the death of Christ and the resurrection of the dead after He raises us from our graves the one time those who have died in Christ are raised. Scripture never mentions what happens to the Old Testament saints and we know by the story of how Samuel was conjured UP/called up from the grave by the witch of Endor at the request of King Saul that Samuel was angry that he was disturbed. So it is my opinion that the saints of the Old Testament are who will be among those resurrected up at the great white throne judgement because the not only is that Lambs book of Life opened but also many other books are opened at the great white throne judgement.
 

massorite

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2015
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Wrong! The Antichrist is Antipope John Paul the !!
Where dose it say that in scripture??? Put your scripture where your mouth is. Don't simply tell me I am wrong for the sake of doing it with no scripture to back your beliefs up. That is like saying the sky is the color purple with absolutely no proof and when we look at the sky we see that it is actually blue.
Sounds like you have a real prejudice against the Catholic church and any kind of prejudice is bad for the soul. You shoould consult Christ about that because you are dead wrong about your belief when it comes to scripture.
 
Mar 7, 2020
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Where dose it say that in scripture??? Put your scripture where your mouth is. Don't simply tell me I am wrong for the sake of doing it with no scripture to back your beliefs up. That is like saying the sky is the color purple with absolutely no proof and when we look at the sky we see that it is actually blue.
Sounds like you have a real prejudice against the Catholic church and any kind of prejudice is bad for the soul. You shoould consult Christ about that because you are dead wrong about your belief when it comes to scripture.
Sir humbly I am an ethnic Roman Catholic.
Do your own due diligence and pray. There were all sorts of miraculous signs and miracles in addition to scripture versus.
Unfortunately you have a harden heart. But I know that out of the darkest hour one faces there can be a very bright light.
Sadly you've been brain washed. Were you at least baptized a Roman Catholic might I ask?
 
Mar 7, 2020
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Where dose it say that in scripture??? Put your scripture where your mouth is. Don't simply tell me I am wrong for the sake of doing it with no scripture to back your beliefs up. That is like saying the sky is the color purple with absolutely no proof and when we look at the sky we see that it is actually blue.
Sounds like you have a real prejudice against the Catholic church and any kind of prejudice is bad for the soul. You shoould consult Christ about that because you are dead wrong about your belief when it comes to scripture.
And sir what you call prejudice I call the the revelation of truth in common parlance.

Did Christ not say.." I know those who call themselves Israelite and are not but do lie."
 
Dec 30, 2019
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But you believe second coming and rapture is in the same time
We have a lot of different scriptures that are like the pieces of a puzzle that we need to fit together to see the whole picture all at once. So we believe that pre trib Jesus comes for His Church or Bride. Post Trib Jesus returns with His Church or Bride to rule and reign together on the earth for 1,000 years. We are co heirs with Christ. Only during the Kingdom age the term used is Manifest Sons (daughters) of God. During the tribulation is the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Also we need to know what is literal and what is figurative or symbolic. Which I do not address.