The Error is Baptism in Jesus name only for salvation

[Wansvic]

The baby had nothing to do with its birth. It simply happened to the infant. So too when one is born again. The Spirit blows where it wills.

See Romans 1:19-20

 

[Wansvic]

In Acts 10:47-48 the Greek word baptisthenai is used. It is the aorist infinitive passive form of the verb. it is my understanding that an aorist infinitive can be thought of as a verbal noun. So, is he telling them to go get immersed in water, or is he saying they have been immersed already.

Perhaps Peter is, from a position of authority, declaring them to be immersed already.

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10‬:‭48‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/59/act.10.48.ESV

The account leaves no room for doubt. The individuals were water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. "

 

[Wansvic]

Nice try but I predict a deflective response and long explaination of why that isn’t true or complete misdirection

I don't understand how my insistance that obedience is required under both covenants is a deflective response. I'm interested to know why you responded this way. Thanks!

 

[lrs68]

If either way was acceptable why is there no record of the apostles water baptizing anyone using the phrase, in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost? This is very important to consider since the word says things are established by at least 2-3 witnesses/references. And church history reveals the phrase was instituted by forerunners of the RCC around 325 A.D. Their own literature confirms this fact.

A couple of things actually don't add up to me about Matthew 28:19.

1. How come the Gospels of Mark, John, and Luke that cover the same incident before the Ascension of Yeshua that describes the conversation we read in Matthew 28 is not listed in the other 3 Gospels?

2. How come we never see anyone being either [water or spirit] Baptized anywhere in the New Testament if that was the command of Yeshua?

Something just doesn't add up.

 

[Wansvic]

So when someone has Christ revealed to them by the Father, eternal life according to John 17:3, they possess eternal life but aren't saved? That sounds right to you?

You still haven't dealt with the fact that you have people who are hostile to God, who do no good, and who possess no righteousness obeying God previous to God acting upon them. How is that possible?

In all detailed accounts believing in Jesus was the first step of faith. And without that belief eternal life would not be possible. However, after that additional steps of faith were required; repentance, submitting to water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin and receiving the Holy Ghost. When Peter first presented this gospel message the biblical record makes it clear that only after obedience were the individuals added. (Acts 2:36-42)

I don't believe as you do that only certain people are destined for eternal life while others have no chance. Jesus said that those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled. Sadly, some make the wrong choice and never pursue Him.

 

[JBTN]

The account leaves no room for doubt. The individuals were water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. "

It doesn’t seem to read that way in the original language. You should study the interlinear version and also the meaning of kolysai. The way verse 47 is rendered in Thayers Lexicon under the definition of kolysai is particularly interesting.

 

[Wansvic]

Are you referring to when Jesus told Peter of his impending denial? The word converted used their is not salvation, but restoration. Which fits perfectly with Jesus' later words to Peter...feed my sheep. Notice, this came before Pentecost, and Peter was restored; not converted or saved.

I'll look into this.

However, what Peter fed Jesus' lamb and sheep is recorded in Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48. And all reveal the need to believe in Jesus, repent, be water baptized in Jesus' name for remission of sin and to receive the Holy Ghost.

 

[Wansvic]

And I showed you that converted there did not mean salvation but reconciliation. I went on to show where that reconciliation took place, and that it preceded Pentecost.
Peter certainly filled the requirement of salvation because he possessed eternal life. That, according to John 17:3, is knowing God and knowing Christ.

The sum of God's word is truth. As such, if a verse seems to contradict another. The error is in a person's understanding because the word of God does not contradict itself.

Jesus said unless you repent you will perish. Luke 13:3
He said those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. Mark 16:15-16
Paul explained if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:9

 

[Wansvic]

Paul wrote that well after having been converted. And he wrote it as an exhortation to those who are saved to continue in holiness. It has nothing to do with conversion.

STILL...you have failed to relate how someone opposed and hostile towards God, who does no good, and who possesses no righteousness, suddenly turns to God. Can you?

As I noted previously, I do not agree with your belief that man has no choice in the matter.

And Paul specifically stated it was possible for him to be a castaway. "I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Cor. 9:27

 

[Magenta]

Paul specifically stated it was possible for him to be a castaway. "I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection:
lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Cor. 9:27

Many translation versions use the word disqualified, since teachers are to exercise spiritual discipline for effectiveness in ministry.

 

[mailmandan]

Many translation versions use the word disqualified, since teachers are to exercise spiritual discipline for effectiveness in ministry.

Exactly and the NIV says "disqualified for the prize." Salvation is a gift (Romans 5:15,16,18; 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) and not a prize.

 

[Wansvic]

Didnt see where it was in Jesus name.

The OT foreshadows many antitypes that came about in the NT after Jesus' resurrection.

The command to be baptized in the name of Jesus for remission of sin was begun after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. And applies to all those living in the NT. (Luke 24:47)

 

[Cameron143]

See Romans 1:19-20

The invisible things of God are known by the things that are seen. Hence, the spiritual is discerned from what is seen. Physical birth teaches about spiritual birth. Thus, having nothing to do with your physical birth portends having nothing to do with your spiritual birth.

 

[Cameron143]

In all detailed accounts believing in Jesus was the first step of faith. And without that belief eternal life would not be possible. However, after that additional steps of faith were required; repentance, submitting to water baptism in the name of Jesus for remission of sin and receiving the Holy Ghost. When Peter first presented this gospel message the biblical record makes it clear that only after obedience were the individuals added. (Acts 2:36-42)

I don't believe as you do that only certain people are destined for eternal life while others have no chance. Jesus said that those who hunger and thirst after righteousness shall be filled. Sadly, some make the wrong choice and never pursue Him.

No, it is the only step in faith. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. Once you believe, you have faith. Hence, since we are saved by grace THROUGH FAITH, anyone possessing faith is saved.
Now I will grant you that faith will lead us to perform many things, but once someone possesses faith, they are saved.

 

[Cameron143]

I'll look into this.

However, what Peter fed Jesus' lamb and sheep is recorded in Acts 2:4-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48. And all reveal the need to believe in Jesus, repent, be water baptized in Jesus' name for remission of sin and to receive the Holy Ghost.

It's not about salvation, but restoration. You can try to make it fit, but it doesn't support your argument.

 

[Cameron143]

The sum of God's word is truth. As such, if a verse seems to contradict another. The error is in a person's understanding because the word of God does not contradict itself.

Jesus said unless you repent you will perish. Luke 13:3
He said those who believe and are baptized shall be saved. Mark 16:15-16
Paul explained if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. Rom. 8:9

You should take your own advice here.

 

[Cameron143]

As I noted previously, I do not agree with your belief that man has no choice in the matter.

And Paul specifically stated it was possible for him to be a castaway. "I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." 1 Cor. 9:27

You can disagree, but you didn't create your physical life, and no one can create their own spiritual life. Being born from above tells you who births someone spiritually. And the whole purpose in Jesus relaying that the Spirit who births spiritually moves sovereignly is to further this truth.
And the verse in 1 Corinthians has nothing to do with getting saved. It doesn't apply to the current discussion.

 

[Magenta]

Exactly and the NIV says "disqualified for the prize." Salvation is a gift (Romans 5:15,16,18; 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) and not a prize.

That is a good distinction, thanks for adding that, Dan! .

 

[Wansvic]

A couple of things actually don't add up to me about Matthew 28:19.

1. How come the Gospels of Mark, John, and Luke that cover the same incident before the Ascension of Yeshua that describes the conversation we read in Matthew 28 is not listed in the other 3 Gospels?

2. How come we never see anyone being either [water or spirit] Baptized anywhere in the New Testament if that was the command of Yeshua?

Something just doesn't add up.

The NT did not begin until after Jesus' death, burial, resurrection and He was glorified and poured out the Holy Ghost at Pentecost.

All of the gospels give some details of Jesus final words regarding the Great Commission that would begin after He ascended back into Heaven:

Matt 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


Mark 16:15-16
"Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."


In the Luke account Jesus prophesied that the gospel message would begin in Jerusalem and eventually go into all nations. That message would include his sacrifice and resurrection. And that repentance, and remission of sins was to be preached in His name. Clearly this is a reference to the message presented by Peter at Pentecost. (Acts 2:36-38):

Luke 24:46-49
"And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behooved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things.
And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high."


The last thing in the Book of John concerning the gospel message was Jesus instruction to Peter. He was told to feed Jesus' lambs, and sheep as well as other sheep. Peter obeyed Jesus by presenting the gospel message to the Jews, (Acts 2:36-42) then assisting the Samaritans, who were half Jewish and half Gentile, to receive the Holy Ghost, (Acts 8:12-18) and presenting the gospel to the Gentiles as well. (Acts 10:43-48)

John 21:15-17
So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

 

[Wansvic]

It doesn’t seem to read that way in the original language. You should study the interlinear version and also the meaning of kolysai. The way verse 47 is rendered in Thayers Lexicon under the definition of kolysai is particularly interesting.

I will look at what you've mentioned; however, all accounts reference baptism in the name of Jesus, and individuals receiving the Holy Ghost as well. As such both water and Spirit are involved.