What I hear you saying here ^ (along with the point in the rest of your quote, which I didn't copy ^ ), is that ALL believers MUST PHYSICALLY DIE (b/c of Heb9:27), and this (according to your view) would INCLUDE the "we which are ALIVE and remain unto" group of people. Is it your view that ZERO saints will left out of the "must physically DIE" category... is this what you are saying ( ^ here and in conjunction with the remainder of your post)??
The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
- Thread starter Marilyn
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John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
3327. metabainó
Strong's Concordance
2920. krisis ►
Strong's Concordance
krisis: a decision, judgment
Original Word: κρίσις, εως, ἡ
Definition: a decision, judgment
Usage: judging, judgment, decision, sentence; generally: divine judgment; accusation.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2920 krísis (a feminine noun derived from 2919 /krínō, "to separate, distinguish, judge") – judgment, emphasizing its qualitative aspect that can apply either to a positive verdict (for righteousness) – or more commonly, a "negative" verdict which condemns the nature of sin that brings it on. See 2919 (krinō).
[2917 (kríma) stresses the results that go with a particular judgment (of blessing or pain depending on the choice).]
John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on Him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation but is passed from death unto life.
John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
3327. metabainó
Strong's Concordance
metabainó: to pass over, withdraw, depart
Original Word: μεταβαίνω
Definition: to pass over, withdraw, depart
Usage: I change my place (abode), leave, depart, remove, pass over.
Original Word: μεταβαίνω
Definition: to pass over, withdraw, depart
Usage: I change my place (abode), leave, depart, remove, pass over.
2920. krisis ►
Strong's Concordance
krisis: a decision, judgment
Original Word: κρίσις, εως, ἡ
Definition: a decision, judgment
Usage: judging, judgment, decision, sentence; generally: divine judgment; accusation.
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 2920 krísis (a feminine noun derived from 2919 /krínō, "to separate, distinguish, judge") – judgment, emphasizing its qualitative aspect that can apply either to a positive verdict (for righteousness) – or more commonly, a "negative" verdict which condemns the nature of sin that brings it on. See 2919 (krinō).
[2917 (kríma) stresses the results that go with a particular judgment (of blessing or pain depending on the choice).]
Could you not tell I was speaking of the BELIEVERS / SAVED PERSONS / SAINTS??
I wasn't talking about the UNBELIEVERS / UNSAVED / LOST, in my post you quoted.
Why would you think I was saying anything about "unsaved" persons not being "raptured" when they are not even the ones supposed to be "raptured," but rather (as Scripture states) "PUNISHED":
--i.e. like the FIRST "PUNISH" word in Isaiah 24:21-22,[23] (meaning they DIE) corresponds with Revelation 19:19,21 ['and the remnant were SLAIN'] / 16:14-16 / 20:5 at the time of His Second Coming to the earth;
whereas the SECOND "PUNISH" word of that Isaiah 24 passage [separated BY TIME] corresponds to the later GWTj, i.e. the SECOND death / lake of fire (and Death and Hell/Hades GAVE UP the DEAD...);
--and who (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth) will "go away unto eternal/everlasting PUNISHMENT" Matthew 25:46 (starting with Death and Hell / Hades; the sentence never reversing...);
--and whom are the "TARES" that the angels will "gather OUT" and "collect ye FIRST the TARES" (at that same time-slot);
--and which other passages describe as "[shall be] cast into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (also at His Second Coming to the earth time-slot)
(i.e. the unsaved will NOT be ENTERING the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth at the time of His Second Coming to the earth [Armageddon time-slot]);
... I wasn't speaking of any of those [passages] ^ ... I was speaking of the persons who will have coming to faith in Christ (FOLLOWING "our Rapture) when they are IN the Trib years, and who will survive as "STILL-LIVING" by the END of those Trib years (just like is being referred to in Dan12:13 and about 7-8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to that very same point...)--the ones who will thus (as SAVED persons) ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children (the ONLY ones who will have that capacity);
and yes, since JESUS HIMSELF will be RULING AND REIGNING and "WHAT HE SAYS, 'GOES'," Who had said, "I AM the Resurrection AND THE LIFE... [and after mentioning those who DIE, goes on to say...] AND he that LIVETH and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?" (some don't seem to believe Him, here.)
Martha was clearly placing the Subject of the convo in the context of: "IN THE LAST DAY" (which is not merely "a singular 24-hr day"--but more like Acts 17:31 speaks of: "...he hath FIXED / ESTABLISHED a DAY IN WHICH He shall judge [i.e. govern and rule] the world IN RIGHTEOUSNESS in a Man whom He hath appointed, and He furnished proof to all by..." (that's speaking of the MK age: judge / govern / rule).
This is how there will be, by the end of the MK age, "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" (children will be born to those "saints" who ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children... and those children will go on to have children, and so forth...);
... One would have to shuffle a ton of passages around ( ^ ), inserting them into INCORRECT time-slots, in order to make a "post-trib RAPTURE" work. I say, don't do that.
I wasn't talking about the UNBELIEVERS / UNSAVED / LOST, in my post you quoted.
Why would you think I was saying anything about "unsaved" persons not being "raptured" when they are not even the ones supposed to be "raptured," but rather (as Scripture states) "PUNISHED":
--i.e. like the FIRST "PUNISH" word in Isaiah 24:21-22,[23] (meaning they DIE) corresponds with Revelation 19:19,21 ['and the remnant were SLAIN'] / 16:14-16 / 20:5 at the time of His Second Coming to the earth;
whereas the SECOND "PUNISH" word of that Isaiah 24 passage [separated BY TIME] corresponds to the later GWTj, i.e. the SECOND death / lake of fire (and Death and Hell/Hades GAVE UP the DEAD...);
--and who (at the time of His Second Coming to the earth) will "go away unto eternal/everlasting PUNISHMENT" Matthew 25:46 (starting with Death and Hell / Hades; the sentence never reversing...);
--and whom are the "TARES" that the angels will "gather OUT" and "collect ye FIRST the TARES" (at that same time-slot);
--and which other passages describe as "[shall be] cast into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" (also at His Second Coming to the earth time-slot)
(i.e. the unsaved will NOT be ENTERING the promised and prophesied EARTHLY Millennial Kingdom age commencing upon His "RETURN" to the earth at the time of His Second Coming to the earth [Armageddon time-slot]);
... I wasn't speaking of any of those [passages] ^ ... I was speaking of the persons who will have coming to faith in Christ (FOLLOWING "our Rapture) when they are IN the Trib years, and who will survive as "STILL-LIVING" by the END of those Trib years (just like is being referred to in Dan12:13 and about 7-8 other "BLESSED" passages speaking to that very same point...)--the ones who will thus (as SAVED persons) ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children (the ONLY ones who will have that capacity);
and yes, since JESUS HIMSELF will be RULING AND REIGNING and "WHAT HE SAYS, 'GOES'," Who had said, "I AM the Resurrection AND THE LIFE... [and after mentioning those who DIE, goes on to say...] AND he that LIVETH and believeth in Me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believest thou this?" (some don't seem to believe Him, here.)
Martha was clearly placing the Subject of the convo in the context of: "IN THE LAST DAY" (which is not merely "a singular 24-hr day"--but more like Acts 17:31 speaks of: "...he hath FIXED / ESTABLISHED a DAY IN WHICH He shall judge [i.e. govern and rule] the world IN RIGHTEOUSNESS in a Man whom He hath appointed, and He furnished proof to all by..." (that's speaking of the MK age: judge / govern / rule).
This is how there will be, by the end of the MK age, "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" (children will be born to those "saints" who ENTER the MK age in their mortal bodies capable of reproducing / bearing children... and those children will go on to have children, and so forth...);
... One would have to shuffle a ton of passages around ( ^ ), inserting them into INCORRECT time-slots, in order to make a "post-trib RAPTURE" work. I say, don't do that.
No, I couldn't.
I don't do well with 'puzzle' sentences like the one above. I still don't know what is being said.
or this one
Then who are all the nations coming to worship? who is going without rain? It isn't the saved as they are reigning as Priests and rulers with Christ. Who do you think they are ruling over? Who are they being Priests for? Surely not the saved who are also doing what they are.
I am not sure how to say this, let me use GODS WORDS ALL WILL BE CHANGED. Not SOME. Not some from... Not some who were this or were that or were a part of this generation but weren't a part of that generation. GOD IS NOT A respecter of persons. IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER ALL FLESH WILL BE GONE. No more babies. No more death (except the lake of fire) No physical or mental 'ailments' that would reflect on the SPIRITUAL BEINGS being considered for immortality. No WEAK earth sinful flesh excuses. The choice will be without a doubt. Everyone will last 1000 years.
The dead rise and the alive and remaining changed. WHAT FLESH DOES THAT LEAVE? none.
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
The souls were already created. The number of them set.
IT IS A FINITE NUMBER. MEN AND WOMAN aren't 'creating' souls, they are 'bearing' them' ALL souls belong to GOD. ALL souls return to THE ONE WHO GAVE THEM. GOD knows who is where and how many hairs they have.
Deuteronomy 32:7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the sons of Adam, He set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
Deuteronomy 32:9 For the LORD's portion is His people; Jacob is the lot of His inheritance.
I don't do well with 'puzzle' sentences like the one above. I still don't know what is being said.
or this one
Then who are all the nations coming to worship? who is going without rain? It isn't the saved as they are reigning as Priests and rulers with Christ. Who do you think they are ruling over? Who are they being Priests for? Surely not the saved who are also doing what they are.
I am not sure how to say this, let me use GODS WORDS ALL WILL BE CHANGED. Not SOME. Not some from... Not some who were this or were that or were a part of this generation but weren't a part of that generation. GOD IS NOT A respecter of persons. IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER ALL FLESH WILL BE GONE. No more babies. No more death (except the lake of fire) No physical or mental 'ailments' that would reflect on the SPIRITUAL BEINGS being considered for immortality. No WEAK earth sinful flesh excuses. The choice will be without a doubt. Everyone will last 1000 years.
The dead rise and the alive and remaining changed. WHAT FLESH DOES THAT LEAVE? none.
Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
The souls were already created. The number of them set.
IT IS A FINITE NUMBER. MEN AND WOMAN aren't 'creating' souls, they are 'bearing' them' ALL souls belong to GOD. ALL souls return to THE ONE WHO GAVE THEM. GOD knows who is where and how many hairs they have.
Deuteronomy 32:7 Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
Deuteronomy 32:8 When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when He separated the sons of Adam, He set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
Deuteronomy 32:9 For the LORD's portion is His people; Jacob is the lot of His inheritance.
So I'll ask you what you asked me (except my viewpoint has an answer ), do you not believe that there will be those who "rule over" others? [Rev2:26-27; Rev19:15b; Lk19:12,15,17,19 / Matt25:14-30; Matt25:[40,45(who are not BEING judged/separated here)],46b (who ARE); Dan12:13 / Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7]; Matt24:42-51; Matt22:9-14... on and on...]
A few things to consider (to address all of your above posting):
--"Behold, I SHEW YOU a MYSTERY, *WE* shall not all sleep, but *WE* shall ALL be changed IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye..." [<--the precise moment when one day turns into the next, when the sun is eight-degrees below the horizon AT SUNDOWN; aka the "DARK / DARKNESS [/IN THE NIGHT]" ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period that *WE* ["the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"] will not step ONE FOOT INTO... aka the 7-yr Trib starting with SEAL #1], where this *WE* of 1Cor15:51-54 is speaking [contextually] specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and thus the subject being covered is governed by the "[you] WE / WE," here, speaking to/for/about that very Body (not all other saints of all OTHER time periods; ex: Eph1:10 is not speaking of NOW / this PRESENT age, whereas the rest of Eph is [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]; let the readers note that "the least of these My brethren" vv.40,45 are NOT the ones BEING judged/separated in this passage / in this judgment [not that they are the children either, I don't mean that]);
--there will be babies being born even DURING the TRIB years... and when they are, say, 2-3-4-5 possibly even 6 yrs old at the time Christ RETURNS to the earth FOR the earthly MK age to commence, Jesus is not going to say, "Come, ye BLESSED of My Father, INHERIT the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED FOR YOU *FROM* [apo] the foundation of the world"... but leave your little ones OUT... your little ones MUST DIE with the LOST / UNSAVED / WICKED / CURSED. No. [and yes, these SHEEP (/ the righteous) of the nations will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age in their mortal bodies--they've not been promised "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" which is for distinct purposes (intended SOLELY FOR "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY")];
--Zech14:16-19 is stating "the rules" of that earthly MK age ("do this, or else [or else that will happen]")... IOW, "this is how it's gonna be," here in / during the MK age
That's enough for the readers to chew on for now...
Yes, I believe that Rev20:8's "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" is due to an INCREASE (in population) from the point in time 1000 yrs prior when they [saints only] ENTERED the MK age... (i.e. not that many folks will have ENTERED the MK age at its START)... and this reflects what Matt24:37 / Lk17:26 "AS the days of Noah were..." [note: "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" refers to the unsaved], so COMPARE this with both Dan2:35c and Gen9:1 "[actively] FILLED/FILL the [whole] EARTH" (i.e. it will INCREASE in population over those 1000 yrs)
), do you not believe that there will be those who "rule over" others? [Rev2:26-27; Rev19:15b; Lk19:12,15,17,19 / Matt25:14-30; Matt25:[40,45(who are not BEING judged/separated here)],46b (who ARE); Dan12:13 / Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7]; Matt24:42-51; Matt22:9-14... on and on...]A few things to consider (to address all of your above posting):
--"Behold, I SHEW YOU a MYSTERY, *WE* shall not all sleep, but *WE* shall ALL be changed IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye..." [<--the precise moment when one day turns into the next, when the sun is eight-degrees below the horizon AT SUNDOWN; aka the "DARK / DARKNESS [/IN THE NIGHT]" ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period that *WE* ["the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"] will not step ONE FOOT INTO... aka the 7-yr Trib starting with SEAL #1], where this *WE* of 1Cor15:51-54 is speaking [contextually] specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and thus the subject being covered is governed by the "[you] WE / WE," here, speaking to/for/about that very Body (not all other saints of all OTHER time periods; ex: Eph1:10 is not speaking of NOW / this PRESENT age, whereas the rest of Eph is [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]; let the readers note that "the least of these My brethren" vv.40,45 are NOT the ones BEING judged/separated in this passage / in this judgment [not that they are the children either, I don't mean that]);
--there will be babies being born even DURING the TRIB years... and when they are, say, 2-3-4-5 possibly even 6 yrs old at the time Christ RETURNS to the earth FOR the earthly MK age to commence, Jesus is not going to say, "Come, ye BLESSED of My Father, INHERIT the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED FOR YOU *FROM* [apo] the foundation of the world"... but leave your little ones OUT... your little ones MUST DIE with the LOST / UNSAVED / WICKED / CURSED. No. [and yes, these SHEEP (/ the righteous) of the nations will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age in their mortal bodies--they've not been promised "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" which is for distinct purposes (intended SOLELY FOR "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY")];
--Zech14:16-19 is stating "the rules" of that earthly MK age ("do this, or else [or else that will happen]")... IOW, "this is how it's gonna be," here in / during the MK age
That's enough for the readers to chew on for now...
Yes, I believe that Rev20:8's "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" is due to an INCREASE (in population) from the point in time 1000 yrs prior when they [saints only] ENTERED the MK age... (i.e. not that many folks will have ENTERED the MK age at its START)... and this reflects what Matt24:37 / Lk17:26 "AS the days of Noah were..." [note: "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" refers to the unsaved], so COMPARE this with both Dan2:35c and Gen9:1 "[actively] FILLED/FILL the [whole] EARTH" (i.e. it will INCREASE in population over those 1000 yrs)
So I'll ask you what you asked me (except my viewpoint has an answer ), do you not believe that there will be those who "rule over" others? [Rev2:26-27; Rev19:15b; Lk19:12,15,17,19 / Matt25:14-30; Matt25:[40,45(who are not BEING judged/separated here)],46b (who ARE); Dan12:13 / Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7]; Matt24:42-51; Matt22:9-14... on and on...]
), do you not believe that there will be those who "rule over" others? [Rev2:26-27; Rev19:15b; Lk19:12,15,17,19 / Matt25:14-30; Matt25:[40,45(who are not BEING judged/separated here)],46b (who ARE); Dan12:13 / Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7]; Matt24:42-51; Matt22:9-14... on and on...]
Christ and a heavenly army are coming to earth. Christ is bringing in the kingdom. This kingdom isn't a kingdom that can be rejected and made to go away, it is an eternal kingdom. IT IS A HEAVENLY KINGDOM ON EARTH.
A heavenly kingdom demands HEAVENLY BODIES. As we have born the earthly we will bear the heavenly.
Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Who are raised when Christ returns? THE DEAD. Which dead? The nations. (NOT the saved as they are already with the Lord) All the people who never heard Gods TRUTH
For me, it always goes back to the same thing. GOD IS JUST. He either knows something we don't know or we have something wrong.
Examples on my thoughts.
You are born into a family in a place where Gods words are never taught. You are 'Mother Theresa but 'WITHOUT any knowledge of God' aka a really good soul. You heard of Jesus but never had access. You die in your sins. You are not raised up to heaven.
When Christ returns you are one of the DEAD that rise. YOU will also be one of the DEAD that remain DEAD make that 'Spiritually dead' for the 1000 years. WHY must this 'mother Theresa' person who has found God remain 'spiritually' dead for the 1000 years? BECAUSE SATAN must be released and Theresa must be tempted/tried/proved just like those who chose Christ while in the flesh. Everyone must choose.
There is also the opposite of the mother Theresa type of person who never heard Gods words but their soul is just mean as hell. I HAVE NO IDEA. I know what I would do but since I am not the judge of that...we'll have to wait to see.
I do know that there will be a separating of the goats and sheep. Maybe that is the reason for that.
ALSO when Christ returns are the opposite of mother Theresa's. They did or could hear Gods Truth and chose to go another way. They chose DEATH and not Life and they will not be resurrecting until it is time to go into the lake of fire.
I am going to ask you to not ask me questions in the 'not' form. I find it hard to figure out what is being asked. Ask if I believe this or that, but not 'do you not believe'. Seems to cause me lots of problems.
So 'do I not believe there will be those who will rule over others'? I don't know, but I do know I believe there are those who will rule over others.
So I'll ask you what you asked me (except my viewpoint has an answer ), do you not believe that there will be those who "rule over" others? [Rev2:26-27; Rev19:15b; Lk19:12,15,17,19 / Matt25:14-30; Matt25:[40,45(who are not BEING judged/separated here)],46b (who ARE); Dan12:13 / Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7]; Matt24:42-51; Matt22:9-14... on and on...]
A few things to consider (to address all of your above posting):
--"Behold, I SHEW YOU a MYSTERY, *WE* shall not all sleep, but *WE* shall ALL be changed IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye..." [<--the precise moment when one day turns into the next, when the sun is eight-degrees below the horizon AT SUNDOWN; aka the "DARK / DARKNESS [/IN THE NIGHT]" ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period that *WE* ["the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"] will not step ONE FOOT INTO... aka the 7-yr Trib starting with SEAL #1], where this *WE* of 1Cor15:51-54 is speaking [contextually] specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and thus the subject being covered is governed by the "[you] WE / WE," here, speaking to/for/about that very Body (not all other saints of all OTHER time periods; ex: Eph1:10 is not speaking of NOW / this PRESENT age, whereas the rest of Eph is [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]; let the readers note that "the least of these My brethren" vv.40,45 are NOT the ones BEING judged/separated in this passage / in this judgment [not that they are the children either, I don't mean that]);
--there will be babies being born even DURING the TRIB years... and when they are, say, 2-3-4-5 possibly even 6 yrs old at the time Christ RETURNS to the earth FOR the earthly MK age to commence, Jesus is not going to say, "Come, ye BLESSED of My Father, INHERIT the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED FOR YOU *FROM* [apo] the foundation of the world"... but leave your little ones OUT... your little ones MUST DIE with the LOST / UNSAVED / WICKED / CURSED. No. [and yes, these SHEEP (/ the righteous) of the nations will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age in their mortal bodies--they've not been promised "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" which is for distinct purposes (intended SOLELY FOR "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY")];
--Zech14:16-19 is stating "the rules" of that earthly MK age ("do this, or else [or else that will happen]")... IOW, "this is how it's gonna be," here in / during the MK age
That's enough for the readers to chew on for now...
Yes, I believe that Rev20:8's "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" is due to an INCREASE (in population) from the point in time 1000 yrs prior when they [saints only] ENTERED the MK age... (i.e. not that many folks will have ENTERED the MK age at its START)... and this reflects what Matt24:37 / Lk17:26 "AS the days of Noah were..." [note: "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" refers to the unsaved], so COMPARE this with both Dan2:35c and Gen9:1 "[actively] FILLED/FILL the [whole] EARTH" (i.e. it will INCREASE in population over those 1000 yrs)
), do you not believe that there will be those who "rule over" others? [Rev2:26-27; Rev19:15b; Lk19:12,15,17,19 / Matt25:14-30; Matt25:[40,45(who are not BEING judged/separated here)],46b (who ARE); Dan12:13 / Rev19:9 [distinct from v.7]; Matt24:42-51; Matt22:9-14... on and on...]A few things to consider (to address all of your above posting):
--"Behold, I SHEW YOU a MYSTERY, *WE* shall not all sleep, but *WE* shall ALL be changed IN A MOMENT, in the twinkling of an eye..." [<--the precise moment when one day turns into the next, when the sun is eight-degrees below the horizon AT SUNDOWN; aka the "DARK / DARKNESS [/IN THE NIGHT]" ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time period that *WE* ["the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY"] will not step ONE FOOT INTO... aka the 7-yr Trib starting with SEAL #1], where this *WE* of 1Cor15:51-54 is speaking [contextually] specifically to/for/about "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY" and thus the subject being covered is governed by the "[you] WE / WE," here, speaking to/for/about that very Body (not all other saints of all OTHER time periods; ex: Eph1:10 is not speaking of NOW / this PRESENT age, whereas the rest of Eph is [Eph1:20-23 WHEN (as to its existence)]; let the readers note that "the least of these My brethren" vv.40,45 are NOT the ones BEING judged/separated in this passage / in this judgment [not that they are the children either, I don't mean that]);
--there will be babies being born even DURING the TRIB years... and when they are, say, 2-3-4-5 possibly even 6 yrs old at the time Christ RETURNS to the earth FOR the earthly MK age to commence, Jesus is not going to say, "Come, ye BLESSED of My Father, INHERIT the kingdom HAVING BEEN PREPARED FOR YOU *FROM* [apo] the foundation of the world"... but leave your little ones OUT... your little ones MUST DIE with the LOST / UNSAVED / WICKED / CURSED. No. [and yes, these SHEEP (/ the righteous) of the nations will ENTER the EARTHLY MK age in their mortal bodies--they've not been promised "RAPTURE [IN THE AIR]" which is for distinct purposes (intended SOLELY FOR "the Church WHICH IS HIS BODY")];
--Zech14:16-19 is stating "the rules" of that earthly MK age ("do this, or else [or else that will happen]")... IOW, "this is how it's gonna be," here in / during the MK age
That's enough for the readers to chew on for now...
Yes, I believe that Rev20:8's "the number of whom is as the sand of the sea" is due to an INCREASE (in population) from the point in time 1000 yrs prior when they [saints only] ENTERED the MK age... (i.e. not that many folks will have ENTERED the MK age at its START)... and this reflects what Matt24:37 / Lk17:26 "AS the days of Noah were..." [note: "and DESTROYED [G622] ALL" refers to the unsaved], so COMPARE this with both Dan2:35c and Gen9:1 "[actively] FILLED/FILL the [whole] EARTH" (i.e. it will INCREASE in population over those 1000 yrs)
One aspect of the millineum is that it is a second " purge" as satan is loosed and finds followers to mount a second war that is crushed yet again.
Hence we have the missing people klero claims are all gone.
The reason they come to Jerusalem to worship is found in the ot prophecy.
" come worship or die" ( my paraphrase)
That precise moment you are speaking of ENDS the TRIBULATION. WE have just witnessed the two witnesses RISING up and the earth quake comes in that very same hour.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of HIS mouth, and shall destroy with the BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie
DO you know what that LIE is? That the gospel armor doesn't work. That God doesn't PROTECT HIS OWN. That He has somehow lost the ability to send plagues and they not touch those who love Him. That He CAN'T really part a sea so they can go through on dry land. That He can't keep us safe in the middle of a fiery furnace. That He can't send fire down from heaven and not a hair on their head get touch. That He can't open up the ground and swallow those who come against Him. That He doesn't know how to recompense tribulations. That He will give you more than you can handle. That death of the flesh is something to be feared. That the church is somehow DIFFERENT and separate from every other generation. That there isn't a war going on. That the rider on the first horse wasn't sent and that SATAN DOESN'T COME FIRST. That He didn't tell us everything we needed to know.
You know what WE don't seem to get? IS THERE IS A JUDGMENT DAY COMING and that the evil must go and EVIL must come upon the good for THEM TO BE JUDGED. jUST like we get rewards for GOOD works they are judged for BAD. WHO does that fall upon?
Who is our EXAMPLE? AND what did He know? That what comes from the other side FAR OUTWEIGHS WHAT WE GO through here.
1Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by Him do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
2 Thessalonians 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of HIS mouth, and shall destroy with the BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie
DO you know what that LIE is? That the gospel armor doesn't work. That God doesn't PROTECT HIS OWN. That He has somehow lost the ability to send plagues and they not touch those who love Him. That He CAN'T really part a sea so they can go through on dry land. That He can't keep us safe in the middle of a fiery furnace. That He can't send fire down from heaven and not a hair on their head get touch. That He can't open up the ground and swallow those who come against Him. That He doesn't know how to recompense tribulations. That He will give you more than you can handle. That death of the flesh is something to be feared. That the church is somehow DIFFERENT and separate from every other generation. That there isn't a war going on. That the rider on the first horse wasn't sent and that SATAN DOESN'T COME FIRST. That He didn't tell us everything we needed to know.
You know what WE don't seem to get? IS THERE IS A JUDGMENT DAY COMING and that the evil must go and EVIL must come upon the good for THEM TO BE JUDGED. jUST like we get rewards for GOOD works they are judged for BAD. WHO does that fall upon?
Who is our EXAMPLE? AND what did He know? That what comes from the other side FAR OUTWEIGHS WHAT WE GO through here.
1Peter 1:6 Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:
8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:
9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
15 But as He which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
16 Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.
17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear:
18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;
19 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot:
20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
21 Who by Him do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.
"""ALL WILL BE CHANGED. Not SOME. Not some from... Not some who were this or were that or were a part of this generation but weren't a part of that generation. GOD IS NOT A respecter of persons. IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER ALL FLESH WILL BE GONE. No more babies. No more death (except the lake of fire) No physical or mental 'ailments' that would reflect on the SPIRITUAL BEINGS being considered for immortality. No WEAK earth sinful flesh excuses. The choice will be without a doubt. Everyone will last 1000 years.
The dead rise and the alive and remaining changed. WHAT FLESH DOES THAT LEAVE? none."""
if you are referring to 1 cor 15, you may want to include context
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I think i see your basis of doctrine.
You skip the resurrection at the rapture of the dead in Christ and fast forward to the general resurrection preceding the gwtj.
Or you insert the gwtj resurrection way before it actually happens.
( iow you need there to be "one resurrection")
The dead rise and the alive and remaining changed. WHAT FLESH DOES THAT LEAVE? none."""
if you are referring to 1 cor 15, you may want to include context
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
I think i see your basis of doctrine.
You skip the resurrection at the rapture of the dead in Christ and fast forward to the general resurrection preceding the gwtj.
Or you insert the gwtj resurrection way before it actually happens.
( iow you need there to be "one resurrection")
What are you talking about. 1 Cor 15:23 specifically describes Jesus' resurrection as "firstfruits", then followed by "those who belong to Him", and specifically WHEN that singular resurrection of all believers occurs, which is "when He comes".
Seems you do a lot of things differently.
[I use the bible to form doctrine.[/QUOTE]
No you don't. And easily proven by the FACT that you believe there will be a trip to heaven before the Trib of glorified believers. No mention of such a thing in the Bible.
This makes no sense, unless there is a verse that makes this point. Otherwise it is just another opinion.
Seems you do a lot of things differently.
[I use the bible to form doctrine.[/QUOTE]
No you don't. And easily proven by the FACT that you believe there will be a trip to heaven before the Trib of glorified believers. No mention of such a thing in the Bible.
This makes no sense, unless there is a verse that makes this point. Otherwise it is just another opinion.
We must understand ...it is appointed unto man once to die.....along with other parts of God's plan for salvation ends with the coming of Christ. SO at His 2nd advent those alive in Christ are not appointed to die a physical death because of that end. It would appear they are transformed into new bodies at that time. Scripture is not clear on that point as I read it.
I am confident Christ can handle that element.
I am confident Christ can handle that element.
No you don't. And easily proven by the FACT that you believe there will be a trip to heaven before the Trib of glorified believers. No mention of such a thing in the Bible.
This makes no sense, unless there is a verse that makes this point. Otherwise it is just another opinion.[/QUOTE]
Your take on firstfruits leaves out what they are.
Ahem...first gathering of harvest.
There needs to be some sort of proof or basis to make firstfruits
Have the NEW DEFINITION you are ascribing.
This makes no sense, unless there is a verse that makes this point. Otherwise it is just another opinion.[/QUOTE]
Your take on firstfruits leaves out what they are.
Ahem...first gathering of harvest.
There needs to be some sort of proof or basis to make firstfruits
Have the NEW DEFINITION you are ascribing.
Yes, I know that. From 1 Cor 15:23, because He was the first human to receive a glorified body in the resurrection. And Act 26:23 tells us plainly that Jesus is "the first to rise from the dead". And we all know that there were at least several people during Jesus' ministry who came back from the dead: Lazarus, the widow's son, and whoever else He and/or His disciples raised from the dead. But none of any of these people received resurrection bodies.
And the idea of gleanings has no link to resurrection, unless you have a verse that I'm unaware of.
Well, of course there is. Doesn't support the claim that the resurrection of believers has 'gleanings'.
I must see verses that support this theory that the resurrection has a 'main harvest' and then after that a 'gleaning'.
And the idea of gleanings has no link to resurrection, unless you have a verse that I'm unaware of.
Well, of course there is. Doesn't support the claim that the resurrection of believers has 'gleanings'.
I must see verses that support this theory that the resurrection has a 'main harvest' and then after that a 'gleaning'.
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