THE FLESH OF JESUS CHRIST.

[zone]

He's got a plan. The Passover Lamb and the Manna from heaven are pre-echos of His final, perpetual sacrifice wherein He offers Himself to us for the salvation of our souls.
There's numerous verses that point out these echoes of Christ's Eucharistic sacrifice.

Gen. 22:9-13 - God saved Abraham's first-born son on Mount Moriah with a substitute sacrifice which had to be consumed. This foreshadowed the real sacrifice of Israel's true first-born son (Jesus) who must be consumed.
Exodus 12:5 - the paschal lamb that was sacrificed and eaten had to be without blemish. Luke 23:4,14; John 18:38 - Jesus is the true paschal Lamb without blemish.
Exodus 12:7,22-23 - the blood of the lamb had to be sprinkled on the two door posts. This paschal sacrifice foreshadows the true Lamb of sacrifice and the two posts of His cross on which His blood was sprinkled.
Exodus 12:8,11 - the paschal lamb had to be eaten by the faithful in order for God to "pass over" the house and spare their first-born sons. Jesus, the true paschal Lamb, must also be eaten by the faithful in order for God to forgive their sins.
Exodus 12:43-45; Ezek. 44:9 - no one outside the "family of God" shall eat the lamb. Non-Catholics should not partake of the Eucharist until they are in full communion with the Church.
Exodus 12:49 - no uncircumcised person shall eat of the lamb. Baptism is the new circumcision for Catholics, and thus one must be baptized in order to partake of the Lamb.
Exodus 12:47; Num. 9:12 - the paschal lamb's bones could not be broken. John 19:33 - none of Jesus' bones were broken.
Exodus 16:4-36; Neh 9:15 - God gave His people bread from heaven to sustain them on their journey to the promised land. This foreshadows the true bread from heaven which God gives to us at Mass to sustain us on our journey to heaven.
Exodus 24:9-11 - the Mosaic covenant was consummated with a meal in the presence of God. The New and eternal Covenant is consummated with the Eucharistic meal - the body and blood of Jesus Christ under the appearance of bread and wine.
Exodus 29:33 – God commands that they shall eat those things with which atonement was made. Jesus is the true Lamb of atonement and must now be eaten.
Lev. 7:15 - the Aaronic sacrifices absolutely had to be eaten in order to restore communion with God. These sacrifices all foreshadow the one eternal sacrifice which must also be eaten to restore communion with God. This is the Eucharist (from the Greek word "eukaristia" which means "thanksgiving").
Lev. 17:11,14 - in the Old Testament, we see that the life of the flesh is the blood which could never be drunk. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ's blood is the source of new life, and now must be drunk.
Gen. 9:4-5; Deut.12:16,23-24 - in these verses we see other prohibitions on drinking blood, yet Jesus commands us to drink His blood because it is the true source of life.
2 Kings 4:43 - this passage foreshadows the multiplication of the loaves and the true bread from heaven which is Jesus Christ.
2 Chron. 30:15-17; 35:1,6,11,13; Ezra 6:20-21; Ezek. 6:20-21- the lamb was killed, roasted and eaten to atone for sin and restore communion with God. This foreshadows the true Lamb of God who was sacrificed for our sin and who must now be consumed for our salvation.
Neh. 9:15 – God gave the Israelites bread from heaven for their hunger, which foreshadows the true heavenly bread who is Jesus.
Psalm 78:24-25; 105:40 - the raining of manna and the bread from angels foreshadows the true bread from heaven, Jesus Christ.
Isaiah 53:7 - this verse foreshadows the true Lamb of God who was slain for our sins and who must be consumed.
Wis. 16:20 - this foreshadows the true bread from heaven which will be suited to every taste. All will be welcome to partake of this heavenly bread, which is Jesus Christ.
Sir. 24:21 - God says those who eat Him will hunger for more, and those who drink Him will thirst for more.
Ezek. 2:8-10; 3:1-3 - God orders Ezekiel to open his mouth and eat the scroll which is the Word of God. This foreshadows the true Word of God, Jesus Christ, who must be consumed.
Zech. 12:10 - this foreshadows the true first-born Son who was pierced for the sins of the inhabitants of the new Jerusalem.
Zech. 13:1 - on the day of piercing, a fountain (of blood and water) will cleanse the sins of those in the new House of David.


There's more echoes in Scripture to the Passover lamb and Christ's Paschal sacrifice found in the Eucharist.

interesting.
thank you DS.

lots of SYMBOLS....i don't see where we are told to go backwards, however.

 

[dscherck]

interesting.
thank you DS.

lots of SYMBOLS....i don't see where we are told to go backwards, however.

Who says we're going backwards? From symbolics to actual reality seems to be progress rather than backwards movement.

 

[HeavenwithinYOU]

The Gospel is the Bread of Life, seeking Christ within us and pray to God for THIS TO happen is the KEY to it all..and UNTIL this happens we MUST be bold and persistent as Christ says in the parable in Luke 11:8 about asking BOLDLY for bread, Jesus wants to give HIS SPIRIT so we can have the power to overcome sin, so ask for God to give you the Holy Spirit to make you one with Himself and Christ and strive until this happens:

[FONT=&quot]•John 17:21 - Jesus said: "That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be IN us."
John 8:31 - "IF you ABIDE in my word, you are TRULY my disciples."
• John 14:21: "He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
• Luke 14:26 - "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." HATE in really "love less by comparison." In the Greek original.
• John 7:37 - For Jesus stood and cried, saying on the day of the Feast, "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his BELLY shall flow rivers of Living Water!"
• Luke 17:21 "nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."


THEN WE WILL BE IN THE CHRIST BODY .... and EAT the HIDDEN MANNA which is the Living Water.

Amen
[/FONT]

 

[dscherck]

The Gospel is the Bread of Life, seeking Christ within us and pray to God for THIS TO happen is the KEY to it all..and UNTIL this happens we MUST be bold and persistent as Christ says in the parable in Luke 11:8 about asking BOLDLY for bread, Jesus wants to give HIS SPIRIT so we can have the power to overcome sin, so ask for God to give you the Holy Spirit to make you one with Himself and Christ and strive until this happens:

[FONT=&quot]•John 17:21 - Jesus said: "That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be IN us."
John 8:31 - "IF you ABIDE in my word, you are TRULY my disciples."
• John 14:21: "He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
• Luke 14:26 - "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." HATE in really "love less by comparison." In the Greek original.
• John 7:37 - For Jesus stood and cried, saying on the day of the Feast, "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his BELLY shall flow rivers of Living Water!"
• Luke 17:21 "nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."


THEN WE WILL BE IN THE CHRIST BODY .... and EAT the HIDDEN MANNA which is the Living Water.

Amen
[/FONT]

The thing is, He offers us not only His Spirit, but His Flesh and His Blood. Literally, not figuratively. He offers Himself to us completely, not just in Spirit! How wonderful and glorious is Our Lord!

 

[HeavenwithinYOU]

NOBODY IS RIGHTEOUS NOT ONE! Romans 3:10..... Romans 10:3 warns - Since they did not know the righteousness that comes from God and sought to establish their own, they did not submit to God's righteousness.

HERE is the deal, GOD wants to make YOU.. one with CHRIST..literally... to put YOUR SPIRIT into CHRISTS and to make you ONE with GOD .. hence, HEAVEN is within you and LIVING WATER will flow from within. BUT...

YOU MUST HATE THE WORLD AND ALL THAT IS IN IT AS JESUS SAID:

ASK, READ, REPENT and only seek heaven and do not love the world of anything in it, I promise you all.. that this is what the TRUE message of the Gospel IS because IF YOU JUST OPEN your eyes and heart and take these Scriptures for what they are and BOLDLY ASK GOD for heaven within you now, the Living Water, AND KEEP READING, fasting and pushing hard reading Matthew to Revelations and suffering like JESUS did with fasting and not sinning at ALL.. GOD will do IT!

WATCH my testimony THIS IS THE REAL TRUTH OF CHRIST HE HAS SHOWN ME HIMSELF, I COME in the NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST RAISED THE 3rd day by the FATHER who sends the HOLY SPIRIT to those who TRULY REPENT AND ASK AND SEEK AND KEEP SEEKING BOLDLY UNTIL THEY FIND... AND ONLY THOSE WHO SEEK BOLDLY as JESUS SAID in the parable with the man asking for BREAD that was turned away BUT got the bread HE wanted due to HIS BOLD PERSISTENCE!

Luke 11:8 "I tell you, though he will not get up and give him the bread because he is his friend, yet because of the man's boldness he will get up and give him as much as he needs."
•John 17:21 - Jesus said: "That all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be IN us."
John 8:31 - "IF you ABIDE in my word, you are TRULY my disciples."
• John 14:21: "He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
• Luke 14:26 - "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters--yes, even his own life--he cannot be my disciple." HATE in really "love less by comparison." In the Greek original.
• John 7:37 - For Jesus stood and cried, saying on the day of the Feast, "If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his BELLY shall flow rivers of Living Water!"
• Luke 17:21 "nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."
• John 7:38 - "Whoever believes in me, as the Scripture has said, streams of living water will flow from within him."
• LUKE 12:2 - "... and all that is secret will be made known."
• John 12:25 - "Those who love their lives will destroy them, and those who hate their lives in this world will guard them for everlasting life."
• 1 John 2:15 - "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him."
• Rev 3:20 - "If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.”
• Galatians 2:20 - "I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me."
• 2 Corinthians 13:5 - "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?"
• Hebrews 12:14 - "Without holiness no one will see the Lord."
• 2 Peter 2:2 - "Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute."
• Ephesians 2:14 - For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility.

• Romans 8:9 -- "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ."

• Galatians 5:20 -- "Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires."

• Colossians 2:11 -- "In him you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature, not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by Christ."

• John 17:24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world."

• 1 John 2:27 "...and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit."
• 1 John 3:9 - "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God's seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God."

• 1 John 5:18 - "We know that the person who has been born from God does not go on sinning. Rather, the Son of God protects them, and the evil one cannot harm them."
• Luke 24:49 "I am going to send you what my Father has promised; but stay in the city until you have been clothed with power from on high."

• John 4: 23 -- "Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

• Hebrews 12:8 "If you are not disciplined (and everyone undergoes discipline), then you are illegitimate children and not true sons."

• John 8:34 - Jesus replied, "I tell you the truth, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed."
• Hebrews 10:26 - If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

 

[dscherck]

@HeavenWithinYOU What does that have to do with this thread?

 

[zone]

Who says we're going backwards? From symbolics to actual reality seems to be progress rather than backwards movement.

actual reality?
as in.....Jesus isn't ultimately God? He plans to end up as bread and wine?

or do you mean when we partake of the bread and wine we become gods?

 

[dscherck]

actual reality?
as in.....Jesus isn't ultimately God? He plans to end up as bread and wine?

or do you mean when we partake of the bread and wine we become gods?

He plans to offer Himself as the Living Bread. We see echoes of this in the past, the manna from heaven. But now He offers us the Living Bread, His Flesh.

 

[zone]

He plans to offer Himself as the Living Bread. We see echoes of this in the past, the manna from heaven. But now He offers us the Living Bread, His Flesh.

he already offered Himself once.

why does anyone keep attempting to literally recreate the broken body and blood?

He is Alive, seated at the Right Hand of God. we have access to HIM. He's God...not wheat and grapes.

we approach Him boldly through prayer, and we'll see Him as He is: will he be a loaf of bread and a cup of wine?

 

[dscherck]

he already offered Himself once.

why does anyone keep attempting to literally recreate the broken body and blood?

He is Alive, seated at the Right Hand of God. we have access to HIM. He's God...not wheat and grapes.

we approach Him boldly through prayer, and we'll see Him as He is: will he be a loaf of bread and a cup of wine?

We're not recreating. He offers Himself perpetually. He is alive and continually offering Himself to us through the perpetual sacrifice of the Cross, made present to us through the Eucharistic meal. As fat as perceiving Him, there are numerous recorded instances of people who have seen Our Lord Jesus in the Eucharist in His full glory.

Remember, there is but one sacrifice for Our Salvation, but through the grace of Our Lord, He makes it present to us even today.

 

[zone]

We're not recreating. He offers Himself perpetually. He is alive and continually offering Himself to us through the perpetual sacrifice of the Cross, made present to us through the Eucharistic meal. As fat as perceiving Him, there are numerous recorded instances of people who have seen Our Lord Jesus in the Eucharist in His full glory.

Remember, there is but one sacrifice for Our Salvation, but through the grace of Our Lord, He makes it present to us even today.

ds.
this sounds like recrucifying Jesus every sunday.

people have seen Jesus IN the bread? mkay. not interested.
thank you.
zone

 

[SantoSubito]

ds.
this sounds like recrucifying Jesus every sunday.
zone

I believe dscherck has said multiple times that the Eucharist is the same sacrifice of the Cross offered to us perpetually. It is not a recreation of the Sacrifice it is the re-presentation of it.

 

[dscherck]

ds.
this sounds like recrucifying Jesus every sunday.

people have seen Jesus IN the bread? mkay. not interested.
thank you.
zone

Well, as I've repeatedly explained, it's not recrucifying. It is participating in the ONE sacrifice made by Our Lord Jesus. He offers Himself perpetually for the sake of our salvation. Through His grace, we are able to participate in the ONE sacrifice on the cross that He makes present to us through the sacrament of the Eucharist.

 

[AnandaHya]

Ok I only got through about three of the responses before my eyes started crossing so if I repeat someone else then just take it as a vote to second that idea.

The reason that passage is in the Bible is to make us REMEMBER Jesus sacrificed himself for us. To have us show the world is to love each other as He loved us is HOW we remember Him. One of the ways at least you can list many others. the point is the FLESH and Blood is to show how we JOIN in the BODY of Christ. I'm sure someone can pull out the Bible versus on that one. How we are all the ONE body with many spiritual gifts.

Our goals as mature Christians is to learn what our gifts are and how to help the world working together with one mind and heart which is lead by Jesus Christ our One Teacher and Preacher. We are called all to prophesies through speaking what the Holy Spirit has placed in our hearts and we are to JUDGE each others words. Its all in the Bible. I read it this morning, but I read at least three different books so it would take too long for me to locate them.

Anyway I'm going to read what everyone else has written now that I've put my two cents in before I forgot the words placed in my heart. YOU be the judge. God wants us to be discerning between truth and lies.[/COLOR]

 

[AnandaHya]

It appears, then, that you believe in the concept of transubstantiation. "Transubstantiation is the teaching that during the Mass, at the consecration in the Lord's Supper (Communion), the elements of the Eucharist, bread and wine, are transformed into the actual body and blood of Jesus and that they are no longer bread and wine, but only retain their appearance of bread and wine." (emphasis added)
A Roman Catholic reference describes it as follows. In Holy Communion, we are eating the True Body and Blood of Jesus Christ, without which "you shall not have life in you" (John 6:53).


On the other hand, 1 Corinthians 11:24-26 seems to imply that the sacrament is symbolic. "and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."


I believe that this in an issue that may never be resolved until the day that we can ask Christ, himself, for the true interpretation. More important though, in my opinion, is the part where we are to "get right" with God before partaking of the sacrament. In First Corinthians, Paul writes "So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord. Everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. For those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is why many among you are weak and sick, and a number of you have fallen asleep."
(v.27-30)

This is a VERY DANGEROUS concept, all my red flags just went up just reading it. I'm not sure why but there is demonic influence in the idea that we can create and consume God.

Let me rephrase it in terms that the demons whisper to people who are NOT Christian. It is the same concept just different words. this was reveled to me in a dream or more a nightmare I had as a child.

There was an old lady singing a haunting melody. I knew she was a witch.

"Come my child I will show you how to make yourself God. All you have to do is EAT of His flesh. Let us use magic to transform this bread and wine and imbue it with God's power and you can just eat it right up. YOU can control your destiny. You don't need GOD. Your grown. renounce your father child and come let me show you how to rule the world through magic. "

Do you remember the witch in the Little Mermaid? All she wanted was my voice.

No deal.

So there you have my testimony of demonic attack as a child. God has always been my Heavenly Father, it just took me longer to accept Jesus. Magic runs in my bloodlines. My grandfather was Chinese and had very strong Chi.

So that is the parralell that is drawn for me when I read that statement. Beware of the voices of the dark.

 

[AnandaHya]

It's meant to be a trick question. You see, the ancient Christian belief, still held by not only the Catholics, but the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox is that Our Lord Jesus is really, truly present in the Eucharist. Not just spiritually, but physically as well. While I know that the Roman Catholics have formally defined the concept of Transubstantiation in order to combat various misunderstandings in history, the Eastern and Oriental Orthodox both view the Eucharist the same way. It is Our Lord Jesus Christ, made present to us. I myself prefer to think of it as a holy mystery. For me, it's enough to accept that Our Lord said that it is His Flesh and His Blood. The early Christians believed it, He's certainly capable of doing it, who am I to doubt His words?

It's really a joyful experience to, to realize that I am in the spiritual AND physical presence of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. It helps bring me closer to Him! And that's why I really want people to understand the wonder of this gift. Jesus is really, truly offering Himself to us. Completely. Not just spiritually, but both spiritually AND physically. How wonderous is Our Lord!

Read my previous post, you should not accept everything the church feeds you as truth. Only God and the Holy Spirit, the BIBLE and things proven should be trusted. Jesus told us to test all spirits, we should also test all doctrine to see their biblical soundness.

 

[Consumed]

1 Corinthians 11:24-26
"and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."


pretty simple when we read its done in remembrance of Him and not some man made doctrine on transubstantion. I dont doubt people have seen the Lord taking communion, i just dont see it being the apostles intent of making a whole doctrine out of communion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- abc christianity -
come as a child not a theologian

 

[dscherck]

Read my previous post, you should not accept everything the church feeds you as truth. Only God and the Holy Spirit, the BIBLE and things proven should be trusted. Jesus told us to test all spirits, we should also test all doctrine to see their biblical soundness.

And that is exactly why I went from being a Protestant to a Catholic. Because I tested their doctrines with what the Scriptures said and realized that rather than the Catholic Church being in error, I was the one in error in my beliefs.

 

[dscherck]

1 Corinthians 11:24-26
"and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, “'This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me.' In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me.' For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until he comes."


pretty simple when we read its done in remembrance of Him and not some man made doctrine on transubstantion. I dont doubt people have seen the Lord taking communion, i just dont see it being the apostles intent of making a whole doctrine out of communion
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- abc christianity -
come as a child not a theologian

1 Cor. 11:24 - the same translation is used by Paul - "touto mou estin to soma." The statement is "this is really" my body and blood. Nowhere in Scripture does God ever declare something without making it so.

1 Cor. 11:23 - Paul does not explain what he has actually received directly from Christ, except in the case when he teaches about the Eucharist. Here, Paul emphasizes the importance of the Eucharist by telling us he received directly from Jesus instructions on the Eucharist which is the source and summit of the Christian faith.

1 Cor. 11:27-29 - in these verses, Paul says that eating or drinking in an unworthy manner is the equivalent of profaning (literally, murdering) the body and blood of the Lord. If this is just a symbol, we cannot be guilty of actually profaning (murdering) it. We cannot murder a symbol. Either Paul, the divinely inspired apostle of God, is imposing an unjust penalty, or the Eucharist is the actual body and blood of Christ.

1 Cor. 11:30 - this verse alludes to the consequences of receiving the Eucharist unworthily. Receiving the actual body and blood of Jesus in mortal sin results in actual physical consequences to our bodies.

1 Cor. 11:27-30 - thus, if we partake of the Eucharist unworthily, we are guilty of literally murdering the body of Christ, and risking physical consequences to our bodies. This is overwhelming evidence for the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist. These are unjust penalties if the Eucharist is just a symbol.

 

[dscherck]

This is a VERY DANGEROUS concept, all my red flags just went up just reading it. I'm not sure why but there is demonic influence in the idea that we can create and consume God.

I took the liberty of bolding a small section and wanted to emphasize something.

We do not believe WE create God. The very idea you posted is a dire heresy. Man by himself is powerless.
We do however believe and accept Our Lord Jesus at His word. "This IS my body...." "This IS my blood...."

Not only is there a preponderance of Scripture supporting this viewpoint, but if you look at the teachings and writings of the earliest Christians, they are ALL united in this viewpoint as well. The idea that the Eucharist isn't the literal Flesh and Blood of Our Lord isn't found until around the 12th century. In other words, it's a tradition of men that the Eucharist is merely symbolic.