The Gospels and the Mystery

[rogerg]

This is after the resurrection. I'm talking about the message the disciples were preaching before the cross, the "gospel of the kingdom."

Whether before the resurrection or after the resurrection doesn't matter, it is still all one gospel, they all preached the same thing.
Do you see the "the" in "the gospel of the kingdom - it is a singular gospel, not plural gospels.
Said another way it is "the kingdom's (singular) gospel".

[Mat 4:23 KJV]
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
[Mat 9:35 KJV]
35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
[Mat 24:14 KJV]
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[Mar 1:14 KJV]
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

 

[phil36]

You avoided my question. Why were the disciples told to only preach, "the kingdom of heaven is at hand", only to Jews and not the Samaritans or Gentiles? Why were there exclusions if it was for the whole world? Btw, no mention was ever given in this message of the death, burial, and resurrection for sin. This is what Paul's gospel was all about.

Jesus was preparing them for what was to come. Once Christ had prepared the disciples he sent them out to complete what he started, He dwelt among us and now the Spirit dwells in us:

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and k make disciples of all nations, baptizing them m in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them o to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matt 28:18-20).

We see the disciples carrying out their commisssion to carry on the work of the kingdom that Jesus set them:

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”" (Acts 1:8)


As Paul says, the good news is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes... To the Jew first (Rim 1:16). And Paul and his coworkers themselves carried on that work of the kingdom of God. Paul and his coworkers carried on that work of the kingdom of God along with all the apostles, disciples etc.

So the good news or gospel paul believed and taught is the work of the Kingdom of God.. Preaching and teaching the word etc.

Regarding samaritans, theres a whole chapter in John, where many Samaritans were saved, when Jesus stayed in their town, for two days and they believed His 'word'.

Many Samaritans w from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. 41And many more believed because of his word.

What was Jesus word, well quite simply. He being God (in the incarnation) took on flesh, he was as Paul says 'the Pascal lamb', who takes away the sin of the world as john tells us. He fulfilled the law, he prevailed were man failed. Because he so loves the world, he gave himself, to die on the cross, so that whoever would believe in him will have eternal life... Its all in the gospels, and Paul draws this out for us in how to apply this to our lives, as his letters deal with problems within the churches he planted.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

[Mat 4:23 KJV]
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
[Mat 9:35 KJV]
35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.

[Mat 24:14 KJV]
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[Mar 1:14 KJV]
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

[I colored one verse of you listing... for the purpose of this post]


You left out one verse (referencing this), which is kinda hard to "search and locate" (to find on electronic "searches"), but I placed that one verse of yours in red to highlight how the verse below is also speaking of the "same" time-frame [i.e. SAME CONTEXT] as that:

Mat 26:13
"Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her." [see context, for that]






[note also: that the "Matt24:14 / 26:13" CONTEXT is referencing what takes place in connection with "the beginning of birth PANGS" (i.e. the "SEALS"--that are IN the "in quickness [noun]" time period spoken of "Rev1:1 / 1:19c / 4:1" aka the "7-yr Trib")... which Paul states the ARRIVAL of "the DOTL" time-period is at the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR]" of those (well-prior to Christ's Second Coming TO THE EARTH Rev19)]

 

[John146]

Whether before the resurrection or after the resurrection doesn't matter, it is still all one gospel, they all preached the same thing.
Do you see the "the" in "the gospel of the kingdom - it is a singular gospel, not plural gospels.
Said another way it is "the kingdom's (singular) gospel".

[Mat 4:23 KJV]
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
[Mat 9:35 KJV]
35 And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.
[Mat 24:14 KJV]
14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
[Mar 1:14 KJV]
14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

Question: Has the end come? Why or why not?

 

[John146]

Jesus was preparing them for what was to come. Once Christ had prepared the disciples he sent them out to complete what he started, He dwelt among us and now the Spirit dwells in us:

And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go therefore and k make disciples of all nations, baptizing them m in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them o to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.” (Matt 28:18-20).

We see the disciples carrying out their commisssion to carry on the work of the kingdom that Jesus set them:

"But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”" (Acts 1:8)


As Paul says, the good news is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes... To the Jew first (Rim 1:16). And Paul and his coworkers themselves carried on that work of the kingdom of God. Paul and his coworkers carried on that work of the kingdom of God along with all the apostles, disciples etc.

So the good news or gospel paul believed and taught is the work of the Kingdom of God.. Preaching and teaching the word etc.

Regarding samaritans, theres a whole chapter in John, where many Samaritans were saved, when Jesus stayed in their town, for two days and they believed His 'word'.

Many Samaritans w from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, “He told me all that I ever did.” 40So when the Samaritans came to him, they asked him to stay with them, and he stayed there two days. 41And many more believed because of his word.

What was Jesus word, well quite simply. He being God (in the incarnation) took on flesh, he was as Paul says 'the Pascal lamb', who takes away the sin of the world as john tells us. He fulfilled the law, he prevailed were man failed. Because he so loves the world, he gave himself, to die on the cross, so that whoever would believe in him will have eternal life... Its all in the gospels, and Paul draws this out for us in how to apply this to our lives, as his letters deal with problems within the churches he planted.

Here's the reason why...the disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom. Signs and miracles accompanied the message because it was only to the Jews. It was concerning their promised literal, physical kingdom with their Messiah governing over them.

The gospel of the grace of God is what Paul preached. It is a spiritual kingdom of righteousness and holiness. Both Jew and Gentile are now invited to be a part of this kingdom.

Btw, the disciples had no idea of the death, burial, and resurrection before the cross, and yet, they preached the gospel of the kingdom. The gospel of the kingdom cannot be about the cross.

 

[rogerg]

Question: Has the end come? Why or why not?

What is your point?

 

[John146]

What is your point?

Paul says his gospel has been preached unto all the world, to all nations, to every creature under heaven, and yet, the end has not come? Could they be different messages?

 

[rogerg]

Paul says his gospel has been preached unto all the world, to all nations, to every creature under heaven, and yet, the end has not come? Could they be different messages?

No. There is only one end which occurs when Christ delivers up the kingdom unto the Father.

[1Co 15:24 KJV] 24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

 

[Sipsey]

This did occur to me, which is why I launched out into a search for all the uses for the term "grace" in the Gospels and in the epistles of the apostles, and grace is never directly associated with the concept of salvation in any of those places other than Paul's declarations for salvation under the Gospel of Grace. Grace is a very specific and precise term used to describe the basis for our salvation in contrast to what was before the Gospel of Grace, and what follows after this Gospel is completed and removed from this earth.

So, if indeed it were merely a matter of semantics, that should be more apparent, but the text doesn't lead us in that direction dare we consider the distinctives of water baptism and repentance, with Paul only referencing water baptism in the early part of his ministry, but later not at all, and never with water baptism as a central feature for remission of sins.

That was a worthy question, however. Thanks.

MM

This is the angle I wish you to view, the concept, not the exact term.

In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word often associated with the concept of “grace” is חֵן (chen), which is usually translated as “favor” or “grace.” Another related word is חֶסֶד (chesed), which carries a broader meaning, often translated as “loving-kindness,” “mercy,” or “steadfast love.” While chen reflects more of an unmerited favor or goodwill, chesed emphasizes loyalty and covenantal love, often in the context of God’s relationship with His people.

Though “grace” as we understand it in the New Testament is more fully developed in the Greek term charis, the concepts of chen and chesed capture aspects of God’s graciousness and mercy in the Old Testament.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

No. There is only one end which occurs when Christ delivers up the kingdom unto the Father.

[1Co 15:24 KJV] 24 Then [cometh] the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

"Then [eita] the end" in this 1Cor15:24 context, is speaking of the end of the Millennial Kingdom age.



--however, "then shall the end come" referred to in Matt24:14b speaks (distinctly) of "the end of the age [singular]" that addressed the disciples' question to Jesus in verse 3 (which question was BASED ON what Jesus had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,49-50 re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" [when the angels WILL REAP]--that is, the END of the TRIBULATION period [7 yrs]--but which is FOLLOWED BY "the age [singular] to come" that He PREVIOUSLY spoke of in 12:32 [i.e. what we commonly call "the promised and prophesied earthly MK age [1000 yrs]"--His disciples correctly understood])






... so these two verses (passages) are not speaking of the *same* [point in time] "end". They are distinct.

 

[Musicmaster]

This is the angle I wish you to view, the concept, not the exact term.

In the Old Testament, the Hebrew word often associated with the concept of “grace” is חֵן (chen), which is usually translated as “favor” or “grace.” Another related word is חֶסֶד (chesed), which carries a broader meaning, often translated as “loving-kindness,” “mercy,” or “steadfast love.” While chen reflects more of an unmerited favor or goodwill, chesed emphasizes loyalty and covenantal love, often in the context of God’s relationship with His people.

Though “grace” as we understand it in the New Testament is more fully developed in the Greek term charis, the concepts of chen and chesed capture aspects of God’s graciousness and mercy in the Old Testament.

The precise term is how we understand the concept being conveyed, so I'm confused as to how you believe we can ever understand the writer's conceptual meaning if not by the exact words. Unmerited favor has a very precise and specific meaning, and transliterating it from terminology not contained in the original texts leads to error. Please elaborate on that facet of all this. I would appreciate that.

MM

 

[rogerg]

"Then [eita] the end" in this 1Cor15:24 context, is speaking of the end of the Millennial Kingdom age.



--however, "then shall the end come" referred to in Matt24:14b speaks (distinctly) of "the end of the age [singular]" that addressed the disciples' question to Jesus in verse 3 (which question was BASED ON what Jesus had ALREADY spoken to them about in Matt13:24,30,39,49-50 re: "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" [when the angels WILL REAP]--that is, the END of the TRIBULATION period [7 yrs]--but which is FOLLOWED BY "the age [singular] to come" that He PREVIOUSLY spoke of in 12:32 [i.e. what we commonly call "the promised and prophesied earthly MK age [1000 yrs]"--His disciples correctly understood])






... so these two verses (passages) are not speaking of the *same* [point in time] "end". They are distinct.

I don't believe there will be a Millennial Kingdom age.

 

[Musicmaster]

Generally speaking:

I would very much like to hear from the "single gospel" people why they are not healing the sick, casting out demons, speaking with new tongues, all as was promised by Jesus to those under the Kingdom Gospel.

What's stopping you all from doing those things? Are you not believers in Christ Jesus, and have you not been water baptized? After all that, were you not filled by Holy Spirit? I mean, come on! Why aren't you all doing those things?

Is it only those who do it on TV and Youtube videos who allegedly do those things? Why not ALL who claim to be saved? Jesus placed no limits on the promise for those things to be what the saved were to be capable. If it's ALL just one big Gospel, then why not ALL the outflow of the things promised? Some of you make many appeals to the teaching words and promises made by Jesus, but ONLY to those portions that you can comfortably argue, but never those things that betray your error! THAT is the real issue here, isn't it?

Come on. Let's be honest here...just for once, ok?

MM

 

[TheLivingStone]

I don't believe there will be a Millennial Kingdom age.

What's your take on Revelation 20:4-6 then?


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

 

[rogerg]

I would very much like to hear from the "single gospel" people why they are not healing the sick, casting out demons, speaking with new tongues, all as was promised by Jesus to those under the Kingdom Gospel.

I already answered your question about that quite a while ago, but given that you fall into the "natural man" category,
and thereby you are unable to accept answers that should be viewed from spiritual basis. Until you are no longer of such, you will be unable to find correct answers within the limited framework you established which then leads you off on tangents.. The key lies in the in the interpreting of Scripture by the comparing of spiritual with spiritual and that no verse of prophecy is of any private interpretation.

 

[phil36]

Here's the reason why...the disciples preached the gospel of the kingdom. Signs and miracles accompanied the message because it was only to the Jews. It was concerning their promised literal, physical kingdom with their Messiah governing over them.

The gospel of the kingdom cannot be about the cross.

.Scripture from Pauls hand suggets otherwise:

and Jesus who is called s Justus. These are the only men of the circumcision among my fellow workers for the kingdom of God (Col 4:11).

I don't Paul mis-wrote, here we have Paul and two fellow Jewish christians, working for the Kingdom of God.

To address your first point, while Paul was preaching the good news, he also done signs and wonders:

"The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works. (2 Cor 12:12)

And

For I will not venture to speak of anything except u what Christ has accomplished through me to bring the Gentiles to obedience—by word and deed, 19 by the power of signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God—so that from Jerusalem and all the way around to Illyricum I have fulfilled the ministry of the gospel of Christ. (Romams 15:18-19)


You have defeats your own argument for Paul also by word and deed accompanied by signs and wonders.

I earnestly pray, that you come away from the false teaching of hyper/ultra dispensationalism.. Its denies the truth that Christ taught himself.. This infact would be demonic in nature. Just a loving warning. As much as I love a good debate I do actually care about people.

My advice to anyone who is involved in hyper dispensationalism, is to leave it behind and return to Jesus, for he is the way, the truth and the life. He himself is the good news and proclaims the one gospel about Himself.

 

[phil36]

Generally speaking:

I would very much like to hear from the "single gospel" people why they are not healing the sick, casting out demons, speaking with new tongues, all as was promised by Jesus to those under the Kingdom Gospel.


Come on. Let's be honest here...just for once, ok?

MM

Do you mean like Paul did as well?

 

[Musicmaster]

Do you mean like Paul did as well?

As stated, what Jesus said. If His Gospel is precisely the same preached by Paul, and it's all the same Gospel, then why are you not able to do the miracles that Jesus said would be done by ALL who believe?

MM

 

[rogerg]

What's your take on Revelation 20:4-6 then?


4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

The thousand years, I believe, is a symbolic timeframe which all those who became saved are a part of, and who reside with Him until the end of this world - until the end of time. All who have been saved have been given spiritual life, which life, is the first resurrection. Those not saved - those not given that life - experience the second death.
The "last trump" (1 Co 15:52) is also the seventh trumpet of the Revelation (10:6-7), which trumpet, brings the end of time. Because there is time no longer after the seventh angel sounds with the seventh trumpet, there cannot be another thousand-year period after it. There are no further trumpets after the seventh. Therefore, at the last trump, everything is completed.
I may have not explained this in the best way possible and left something out, but as I'm a little tired right now, it's the best I can do for now.

[1Co 15:52 KJV] 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

[Rev 8:2 KJV]
2 And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets.

[Rev 10:6-7 KJV]
6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

I don't believe there will be a Millennial Kingdom age.

I already guessed that you, like the "Amill-teachings," do not recognize the distinction between the Greek words (Paul used in this context)...:


-- "eita" (Paul used in 1Cor15:24a "Then [eita] the end"), which is a SEQUENCE WORD ONLY with NO time-element attached (regarding the LISTED ITEMS in this section [note how Jesus' resurrection v.20 was some 2000 YEARS prior to the next one in the LIST];

...so there is NO PROBLEM AT ALL with the LAST ITEM in this LIST to take place 1000 YEARS after the previously-LISTED ITEM in the text... esp. due to this "eita" word [a SEQUENCE WORD ONLY, with NO time-element attached to it])... "eita" used in v.24a (the last listed item)...




--and "EPeita" that Paul had used in the immediately-preceding verse (v.23) ("upon-then" [similar to the way our English term thereupon carries a much closer connection] regarding the LISTED ITEMS in this section [re: resurrection])








[IOW, the "Amill-teachings" insist that 1Cor15:24a "THEN [eita] the end" means "THEN [immediately] the end"... but it doesn't (per context). ]