The Holy Spirit
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F
flob
Guest
Hi Ember. I like your name by the way. Ember.
Father, Son, and Spirit, are one, and three, at the same time.
They live in One Another.
What I meant in answer to JFSurvivor's question, dear Ember, is that
the Scripture teaches (shows) that the human conscience is within, part of, the human spirit.
"My conscience bearing witness with me in the Holy Spirit" Rm 9:1
"The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit..." 8:16.
To quote a teacher I respect:
"The Spirit of God today, the all-inclusive Spirit of the Triune God, dwells in our regenerated
human spirit and works in our spirit. These two spirits are one; they live together, work together,
and exist together as one mingled spirit, 1 Cor 6:17; Jn 3:6; 4:24."
Meaning that (for children of God) the voice of our conscience is the voice directly of the Holy Spirit.
Yes.
I also think, in regard to your first comment, that the Holy Spirit and the Trinity want you (and us) to............'become'
Them. That is the whole point of God's eternal plan and the Bible. That God doesn't want to be God separated from us,
but that He became a man. He became mingled with man. And now, as the Spirit, He is mingling with His children, to produce
and be His Bride and Body for eternity, which is the New Jerusalem. Don't you think so?
Whenever the heart turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. And the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. But we all with unveiled face, beholding and reflecting like a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, even as from the Lord Spirit
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The Greek is easily accessible. . .and it is foolish to think that full saving knowledge can be had only in certain languages. . .
More of that separatisit, elitist, superior spiritual knowledge and spirituality. . .baloney.
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The Holy Spirit can and does give us understanding regarding things about which we ask.
And asking is having faith and trust in God.
And then sometimes he does not give us understanding of them, and we must simply trust him.
E
ember
Guest
thx re the name...I can always start a fire...haha
I do not believe the Bible indicates the Father, Son and Holy Spirit live in one another? how did you come to that idea please
It is my understanding that we are tri-partate...the Bible does seem to indicate that (apart from Genesis)
Body, soul and spirit...the soul being our conscience or 'heart' (not the physical organ)
Spirit is what is regenerated by God through His Spirit when we are saved...it is not our soul...when the Holy Spirit bears witness, it is not with our conscience...this, is Spirit to spirit
when Paul states his conscience bearing witness...he is stating that part of him that is his personality, gives credence or witnesses to the fact that his spirit is alive in Christ or can justify his belief...conscience acting as a guide to define truth from that which is not truth
We can grieve the Holy Spirit...we can even reject the Holy Spirit...the references you have provided do not indicate the Spirit of God is totally united with us...would that not take away the ability to choose?
Who is this particular teacher if I might ask?
what about trying the spirits? what about discerning of spirits? why do we need to do this if we hear only from the Holy Spirit and He is now our conscience?
In what manner do you mean Christ became mingled with mankind?
It sounds like a nice idea, the Holy Spirit communing with our Spirit.
The model you are proposing would imply us becoming God from the point of salvation, and knowing Gods thoughts instantly and in agreement. If this was so we would die or explode because the war between flesh and spirit would send us down the plug hole.
I have known christians going through a dry spell of years, of doubt etc. which again would not be possible with the level of communion this idea suggests. It would also encourage the idea we become perfect at salvation, where we know with a hot line what is the right thing to do, when in practice it is very much more cloudy, even as apostle Peter and Paul experienced with their various interchanges.
Now I am sure the Lord continually encourages us and communicates with us but it is a lot more subtle and difficult to discern, or all the "prophets" who get up to talk would not say such rubbish time and again if it was the normal level of intimacy.
My experience is when I have the Lords heart of love, of understanding the pain and suffering people go through and how much He desires to reach out and share and support, the Lord draws closest to me.
Also in praise and worship, knowing who He is and the wonder of that fellowship. But I do not experience what you are describing, though it would be interesting to know if others feel this describes their experience.
There are those who might say, are well, this shows that I have the privileged relationship with the Lord and you all have to make do with a more distant fellowship. It would be interesting for you to share what you experience personally.
F
flob
Guest
Does Christ live in Ember? And does Ember live in Christ?
First, i'll ask
"The Spirit Himself witnesses with our spirit..." Rm 8:16.
Spirit to spirit is a Scriptural witness.
Spirit to conscience is a Scriptural witness.
Therefore our conscience is part of our spirit. Part of our deepest part.
"My conscience bearing witness with me in the Holy Spirit" 9:1
To the contrary:
Conscience (of guilt or innocence) isn't personality.
Paul's conscience bore witness...in the Holy Spirit
He's totally united with our spirit.
Our soul and body are His work in progress.
The Bible calls it sanctification, transformation, conformation, leading eventually to glorification
You did not choose Me, but I chose you, and I set you that you should go forth and bear fruit and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name, He may give you.
Choose for yourselves today whom you will serve...But as for me and my house, we will serve Jehovah
Well, conscience relates to the past, what we've heard and what we know.
It is intuition, another part of our spirit, that relates to the future, to the unknown.
(You mention 'hear only from the Holy Spirit..' What other spirit do you want to hear from?)
In any case, you and I are to discern spirits..............with the Lord Spirit.
As He told His disciples: Apart from Me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Mankind which believes into Him:
he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit, 1 Cor 6:17.
But I had written 'man.' This is how He became flesh:
Behold, you will conceive in your womb...The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therfore also the holy thing which is born will be called the Son of God...Mary...was found to be with child of the Holy Spirit...That which has been begotten in her is of the Holy Spirit...The virgin shall be with child and shall bear a son, and they shall call His name God... Lk 1:31, 35; Mt 1:18, 20, 23
E
ember
Guest
No. Christ is in heaven. Which is why the Holy Spirit was promised. We are sealed by the Spirit of God..and the Holy Spirit indwells us.
Following this logic, we can also state whales are mammals. Whales live in the sea. Therefore, all mammals live in the sea.
Our conscience is not our spirit. There is no scripture that will bear witness with what you state.
EVERY person has a conscience...EVERY person does not have the Holy Spirit.
yeah..except once again, not so
perhaps a dictionary review would clear this up...conscience is not spirit
AGAIN...who is this teacher you speak of? I'm using the Bible...WHO are you quoting here?
again, that would preclude the ability to choose
Jesus is speaking DIRECTLY to His disciples here...how about providing Bible references...John 15:16 in this case...and why are you inserting an OT reference with that? They are separate issues...however, according to you, we don't choose anyway so why that OT reference?
Actually MEMORY relates to the past.
Intuition is not a spiritual gift. I don't know if this is your understanding, but it is incorrect
and you identify the above as Christ 'mingling' with human flesh
You have not identified what mingling means
BTW, I have asked for the name of this teacher you espouse...may we have it please?
F
flob
Guest
Then I urge you to receive Jesus Christ into you, believing that He is resurrected, and calling upon His name, Rm 10:9.
The word is near you Ember, in your mouth and in your heart, that is, the word of faith which we proclaim, that if you confess with your mouth, Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you'll be saved...
"I'm crucified with Christ; and it's no longer I who live, but it is Christ who lives in me..." Paul.
"Abide in Me and I in you" Jesus.
"I in them, and You in Me, that they may be perfected into one, that the world may know that You have sent Me and have loved them even as You have loved Me. Father" Jesus
E
ember
Guest
anyone can quote scripture...which is all you are doing
I do hope no one falls for your false teaching though
well flob, I still wish you would post the name of your teacher
why do you hide it?
Jesus does all things in the light...why won't you?
E
ember
Guest
The rearranging of scripture to coax it into saying what it does not say, is the ploy being used by flob, I'm sure he means well of course, but we do not actually have Jesus living inside of us...nor do we have God living inside of us. We have the Holy Spirit who knows the mind of God and Whom God sent to earth when Jesus ascended.
The apostle Paul said, “Christ lives in me.” How does Jesus Christ live in us? Does He take charge? What is our role in having Christ in us?
Galatians 2:20 is a powerful and much-loved scripture. The apostle Paul wrote, “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.”
The Majority Greek Interlinear puts it this way: “And I no longer live but in me Christ lives.” What does the Bible mean by that statement? Vastly different concepts have been proposed.
Does Christ take charge?
What does Jesus Christ do when we allow Him to live in us? Does He begin living our lives for us? Does He begin making our choices for us?
The Bible makes it clear that we are to be the temple and abode of God (2 Corinthians 6:16). But how do God and Christ live in us? It is through the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9-11). Therefore, the degree to which God and Jesus Christ dwell in us depends on the degree to which we follow the leading of God’s Spirit and use its power to actually become like God the Father and Jesus Christ in nature, character, spirit, attitudes, approach and love.
Walk as He walked
The more we allow the Holy Spirit guide us we become like Christ, the more His life will be in us and, thus, the more He lives in us. But that process is under our will and control, not His. God wants us to choose to live as Jesus lived by our free choice. This involves a humble, earnest seeking to become like Jesus Christ so His life becomes our life.
God’s desire is for us to be “conformed to the image of His Son” (Romans 8:29). For us to inherit life in His family, the Father is looking for the qualities of the life of His firstborn Son in us (Colossians 1:27).
What all the scriptures on this subject reveal is that Jesus Christ’s life will be in us only as we seek to make His way of life our way of life—to walk as He walked, to live as He lived.
I have copy/pasted the above but I agree with it
I do not actually think flob believes I do not know Christ...I do believe he is being clever in his own eyes
The apostle Paul said, “Christ lives in me.” How does Jesus Christ live in us? Does He take charge? What is our role in having Christ in us?
Galatians 2:20 is a powerful and much-loved scripture. The apostle Paul wrote, “I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.”
The Majority Greek Interlinear puts it this way: “And I no longer live but in me Christ lives.” What does the Bible mean by that statement? Vastly different concepts have been proposed.
Does Christ take charge?
What does Jesus Christ do when we allow Him to live in us? Does He begin living our lives for us? Does He begin making our choices for us?
The Bible makes it clear that we are to be the temple and abode of God (2 Corinthians 6:16). But how do God and Christ live in us? It is through the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:9-11). Therefore, the degree to which God and Jesus Christ dwell in us depends on the degree to which we follow the leading of God’s Spirit and use its power to actually become like God the Father and Jesus Christ in nature, character, spirit, attitudes, approach and love.
Walk as He walked
The more we allow the Holy Spirit guide us we become like Christ, the more His life will be in us and, thus, the more He lives in us. But that process is under our will and control, not His. God wants us to choose to live as Jesus lived by our free choice. This involves a humble, earnest seeking to become like Jesus Christ so His life becomes our life.
God’s desire is for us to be “conformed to the image of His Son” (Romans 8:29). For us to inherit life in His family, the Father is looking for the qualities of the life of His firstborn Son in us (Colossians 1:27).
What all the scriptures on this subject reveal is that Jesus Christ’s life will be in us only as we seek to make His way of life our way of life—to walk as He walked, to live as He lived.
I have copy/pasted the above but I agree with it
I do not actually think flob believes I do not know Christ...I do believe he is being clever in his own eyes
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F
flob
Guest
PeterJens wrote:
he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.
The two spirits not only commune, in fellowship, they're one. Permanently, irrevocably, eternally, minglingly, and essentially.
One spirit. That is what it means to be born anew, to be born of Spirit, born of God, and child of God.
Yes, one part of us 'becomes God,' is 'deified,' instantly when we believe into Christ. Deified----not in the sense of an object of worship, nor as some kind of equal with God, nor our own god---but rather members of the Body of Christ. As He said, in His Father's house are many abodes. This...........is the place He went, in crucifixion and resurrection, to prepare for us. A home in the Triune God.
PeterJens mentions 'knowing Gods thoughts instantly and in agreement.' Although that is often my experience, that is not what I'm referring to. Since 'knowing' as a function of our mind often requires us to turn our mind, turn our heart, to the Lord.
At other times (since it is a mutual abiding), I'll be 'doing my thing,' and the Lord will call me, bringing my attention to Him.
Our spirit is our deepest part (composed of conscience, fellowship, and intuition), deeper than our soul (mind, emotion, and will). To 'become God' in life and in nature (but not in the Godhead!) requires that we deny ourselves, pick up our cross, and follow Him. Because only He is eternal life.
set on the flesh is death, the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. We believers may choose to ignore the Lord. In which case He remains 'imprisoned' in our spirit, until, through the discipline and arrangement of the Holy Spirit, we again choose to
turn to the Lord. As Paul wrote: whenever the heart (our soul + the conscience of our spirit) turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. In other words, our veils are our unturned heart.
As far as becoming 'perfect' at salvation, whatever you mean by that, of course not. It is the spirit which is born of the Spirit.
Our soul and body still need to be transformed and glorified, through fellowship and life with Him. That may be 'quicker,' or it may be slower. Like Israel didn't immediately go from Egypt to Good land. But had a (long) intermediate experience of wandering and journeying through the wilderness. It is up to us. And, like Peter, we mostly do not know ourselves.
'Doing the right thing' is mostly not the 'hot line.' But rather His goal is that we abide in Him.
In other words, we need to turn to the Lord.
'I will impart My laws into their mind, and on their hearts I will inscribe them; and I will be God to them, and they will be a people to Me. And they shall by no means each teach his fellow citizen and each his brother, saying, Know the Lord; for all will know Me from the little one to the great among them' Heb 8:10-11.
My experience is that the Lord Jesus is available. He's a life-giving Spirit, incorporated into the Other Comforter, the Holy Spirit, precisely so that He's available. Furthermore he is joined to my spirit....because that is what He created the spirit of man for. Zech 12:1. What I have to do is invoke Him, call on Him, obey Him, set my mind on Him, pray to Him, and enjoy Him. He is as available as the air. Jn 20:22, and teaches me to abide in Him
It's God's idea, and now He's made it fact. Paul wrote:
he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit.
The two spirits not only commune, in fellowship, they're one. Permanently, irrevocably, eternally, minglingly, and essentially.
One spirit. That is what it means to be born anew, to be born of Spirit, born of God, and child of God.
Yes, one part of us 'becomes God,' is 'deified,' instantly when we believe into Christ. Deified----not in the sense of an object of worship, nor as some kind of equal with God, nor our own god---but rather members of the Body of Christ. As He said, in His Father's house are many abodes. This...........is the place He went, in crucifixion and resurrection, to prepare for us. A home in the Triune God.
PeterJens mentions 'knowing Gods thoughts instantly and in agreement.' Although that is often my experience, that is not what I'm referring to. Since 'knowing' as a function of our mind often requires us to turn our mind, turn our heart, to the Lord.
At other times (since it is a mutual abiding), I'll be 'doing my thing,' and the Lord will call me, bringing my attention to Him.
Our spirit is our deepest part (composed of conscience, fellowship, and intuition), deeper than our soul (mind, emotion, and will). To 'become God' in life and in nature (but not in the Godhead!) requires that we deny ourselves, pick up our cross, and follow Him. Because only He is eternal life.
To the contrary, whether we walk by the Spirit, set our mind on the spirit, is up to us. Up to our will. We all know that we cannot keep the law by willing to do so. But we can choose the Lord, choose to turn to the Lord. As Paul wrote: the mind
set on the flesh is death, the mind set on the spirit is life and peace. We believers may choose to ignore the Lord. In which case He remains 'imprisoned' in our spirit, until, through the discipline and arrangement of the Holy Spirit, we again choose to
turn to the Lord. As Paul wrote: whenever the heart (our soul + the conscience of our spirit) turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. In other words, our veils are our unturned heart.
As far as becoming 'perfect' at salvation, whatever you mean by that, of course not. It is the spirit which is born of the Spirit.
Our soul and body still need to be transformed and glorified, through fellowship and life with Him. That may be 'quicker,' or it may be slower. Like Israel didn't immediately go from Egypt to Good land. But had a (long) intermediate experience of wandering and journeying through the wilderness. It is up to us. And, like Peter, we mostly do not know ourselves.
'Doing the right thing' is mostly not the 'hot line.' But rather His goal is that we abide in Him.
Exactly. That is why in the meeting of the whole church, a speaking prophet often should sit down when another stands up to speak. 1 Cor 14:30-32. We need to turn to our spirit, and get in our spirit, to experience the normal level of intimacy.
In other words, we need to turn to the Lord.
I believe you do. Since all believers have Him, are one spirit with Him. That is the definition of a Christian. At least the Bible's definition. Christ In you, the hope of glory, Paul wrote. The Spirit is nothing less than the risen Christ Himself, transfigured and glorified and 'become a life-giving Spirit,' 1 Cor 15:45. For the very purpose of mingling with His receivers' spirits. To make us one, and to begin the long, hard, slow process of spreading outward into our soul, ultimately being able to fill even our bodies with His resurrection life and manifest us as sons of our Father.
'Making do' or 'not making do' is up to us, personally. Eventually, by definition: all His receivers will be His eternal intimate abode. Corporately and individually. Which is the New Jerusalem. That is our predestination. But we all have equal right to come to our mutual and same Father, Lord, and God. Like Moses said to Joshua: he would that all God's people were prophets. God hates the practice of the Nicolaitans---the clergy laity system. As Paul quoted Jeremiah in Hebrews:
'I will impart My laws into their mind, and on their hearts I will inscribe them; and I will be God to them, and they will be a people to Me. And they shall by no means each teach his fellow citizen and each his brother, saying, Know the Lord; for all will know Me from the little one to the great among them' Heb 8:10-11.
My experience is that the Lord Jesus is available. He's a life-giving Spirit, incorporated into the Other Comforter, the Holy Spirit, precisely so that He's available. Furthermore he is joined to my spirit....because that is what He created the spirit of man for. Zech 12:1. What I have to do is invoke Him, call on Him, obey Him, set my mind on Him, pray to Him, and enjoy Him. He is as available as the air. Jn 20:22, and teaches me to abide in Him
M
Mitspa
Guest
There is the "spirit" of our mind...but basically I agree ...the Spirit speaks to our spirit.
No, but I do believe Satan can and does. A thought is natural, God is a Spirit and is supernatural.
God speaks to us through our spirits as John 4 states.
Why does the Bible tell us to renew our minds and to capture any thought to the obedience of Christ?
Ok, even assuming that God only speaks to our spirit, we then become enlighten with what He told us, right? And then we´ll be influenced about that. And if we act based on that, it must go through, someone, our mind...no?
Or did you want to tell me that the Lord does not speaks directly to our mind?
If God spoke to your mind, why would you then need a helmet of Salvation, that Paul says we need in Eph 6?
just saw your reply. what is not supported by the Bible is what a lot of churches take from the Bible and replaced the true meaning with man's traditions (starting obviously with constantine and the rcc, and some even sooner/before that....).
as(if) you seek God, and hunger for Him, He will guide you into all Truth (and believe HIM, HE KNOWS! ), always, always, ALWAYS in line with all of HIS WORD,
and in peace, joy, and righteousness, although accompanied with many griefs and sorrows and persecutions and tribulations..... //(suffering IS required.... more than you could dream of; more than i ever thought possible)
yes, by the Spirit of the Living God, to our spirit, He makes known His Life....