The "Impossible" Gospel

[peacefulbeliever]

<snip>
Deu_6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

<snip>

Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that you might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it . . .Here therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee in the land that floweth with milk and honey . . . . And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for out good always, that he might perserve us alive, as it is at this day. It shall be OUR - Israel's righteousness

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law ans the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference. Romans 3:20-22

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Romans 5:18,19

 

[RedTent]

The Lord continually corrected the Rabbis. His answer shows the true work and purpose of the law upon the heart. Also, His instruction to the woman after her accusers left. An "impossible" teaching...according to some.

Also, the book of Isaiah shows true work and purpose of the law, as it always was in truth. Often people then, as now, read it only legally, or by the letter of the law. Some people even say God wrote it that way in the first place, even though we are taught that God didn't do that.

 

[psychomom]

As we know the Pharisees distorted the law, and also tried cornering Jesus several times by the law as Satan did during the 40 days in the wilderness with Jesus. This might have something to do with what Jesus wrote in the dust. I think He was reminding the Pharisees how off base they were according to the law. It appears that the Pharisees completely rejected the law in this respect simply for the purpose of trying to corner Jesus and prove His ministry in vain. They couldn't do that. No one can.

Numbers 5:12-19
12 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, If any man's wife go aside, and commit a trespass against him,
13 And a man lie with her carnally, and it be hid from the eyes of her husband, and be kept close, and she be defiled , and there be no witness against her, neither she be taken with the manner;
14 And the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be defiled: or if the spirit of jealousy come upon him, and he be jealous of his wife, and she be not defiled:
15 Then shall the man bring his wife unto the priest, and he shall bring her offering for her, the tenth part of an ephah of barley meal; he shall pour no oil upon it, nor put frankincense thereon; for it is an offering of jealousy, an offering of memorial, bringing iniquity to remembrance.
16 And the priest shall bring her near , and set her before the LORD:
17 And the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel; and of the dust that is in the floor of the tabernacle the priest shall take, and put it into the water:
18 And the priest shall set the woman before the LORD, and uncover the woman's head, and put the offering of memorial in her hands, which is the jealousy offering: and the priest shall have in his hand the bitter water that causeth the curse:
19 And the priest shall charge her by an oath, and say unto the woman, If no man have lain with thee, and if thou hast not gone aside to uncleanness with another instead of thy husband, be thou free from this bitter water that causeth the curse:

thanks for this observation.

yeah...i know it's all speculative since the Scripture doesn't tell us what He wrote.
just another thing clanking around in my tiny brain.

 

[RedTent]

Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that you might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it . . .Here therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee in the land that floweth with milk and honey . . . . And the LORD commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for out good always, that he might perserve us alive, as it is at this day. It shall be OUR - Israel's righteousness

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law ans the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference. Romans 3:20-22

Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. For by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. Romans 5:18,19

We know, it is only through blood that we are saved. Abel knew this, Cain didn't. Torah teaches this. We are saved through grace, not by work we do for ourselves. Torah teaches this. The gospels teaches this and so do the epistles. Do you have a special point for bringing this up again in this posting?

 

[psychomom]

y'know...the Gospel of the Lord Jesus is impossible by human standards.

when we are rebuked for preaching Grace, we sometimes hear ppl cry foul.

you can't preach that stuff! people will become antinomian!

if the Gospel doesn't sound too good to be true, it's prolly not the Gospel.

the God Who makes the demands (Law), met the demands (Gospel).

♥

 

[peacefulbeliever]

We know, it is only through blood that we are saved. Abel knew this, Cain didn't. Torah teaches this. We are saved through grace, not by work we do for ourselves. Torah teaches this. The gospels teaches this and so do the epistles. Do you have a special point for bringing this up again in this posting?

In response to:
Deuteronomy 6:25 - And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. Observing to do the law of commandments was Israel's righteousness.

Now as the body of Christ, the church, we receive our righteousness NOT FROM OBEYING THE LAW but through faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Billyd]

I am seriously troubled by the way this discussion is going. Please take a break and read Galatians 5:14-26.

With love,
Billy

 

[crossnote]

y'know...the Gospel of the Lord Jesus is impossible by human standards.

when we are rebuked for preaching Grace, we sometimes hear ppl cry foul.

you can't preach that stuff! people will become antinomian!

if the Gospel doesn't sound too good to be true, it's prolly not the Gospel.

the God Who makes the demands (Law), met the demands (Gospel).

♥

Oh you mean this?

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

 

[WomanLovesTX]

y'know...the Gospel of the Lord Jesus is impossible by human standards.

when we are rebuked for preaching Grace, we sometimes hear ppl cry foul.

you can't preach that stuff! people will become antinomian!

if the Gospel doesn't sound too good to be true, it's prolly not the Gospel.

the God Who makes the demands (Law), met the demands (Gospel).

♥

Christians: Law from Moses and Grace from "Jesus"

Christians (that is mainstream, traditional for the past 1700 years) use this verse consistently to state that "Jesus" grace replaced Moses' Law".

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Y'shua the Messiah.

Christians proudly throw this verse at you: but there is only one problem: the word "but" in italics was not in the original text - no, it was added by the translators and changed the entire concept. This is how it is better translated:

John 1:17 For the was was given by Moses, grace and truth came by Y'shua the Messiah.

YHWH used Moses to give His instructions and then He used His Son to explain them, grace and truth are in the Torah and when Jesus came it was not new.

Now follow YHWH's rules on Grace:

#1) Sin=Transgression of the Torah (1 John 3:4)
#2) The soul that sins (disobeys Torah) shall die (Ezekiel 18:4, Rom 6:23)
#3) The curse for disobeying Torah is death. (Deut 27:26, 28:15,45)
#4) Forgiveness for disobeying Torah is NOT deserved. It is the grace/mercy of YHWH to do so (Exod 34:6)
#5) Jesus showed us this grace/mercy of the Torah by forgiving us of our sin (Matt 9:6)
#6) We are forgiven of our sin when we confess our sin (1 John 1:9)
#7) The blood of Messiah cleanses us from sin (1 John 1:7, Eph 1:7, Col 1:14)
#8) The Torah is truth (Psalm 119:142, 151)
#9) YHWH shows grace/mercy to those that seek to keep His commandments (Ex 20:6, Psalm 103:17-18, John 14:15)

Exodus 34:6 also tells us that YHWH is merciful and gracious: "And YHWH passed by before him, and proclaimed, YHWH, YHWH God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth."

How is YHWH merciful and gracious? Let us read it again and drop the "but".

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, grace and truth came by Y'shua Messiah.

This verse actually tells us that Moses indeed delivered the Torah to the nation of Israel, but Messiah Y'shua shows us the grace (love, compassion, mercy, forgiveness of sins) and truth (how to live a Torah life-style) of the Torah.

The Law is Grace and Grace came before the Law.

Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deu 7:10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
Deu 7:11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

 

[Angelique]

y'know...the Gospel of the Lord Jesus is impossible by human standards.

when we are rebuked for preaching Grace, we sometimes hear ppl cry foul.

you can't preach that stuff! people will become antinomian!

if the Gospel doesn't sound too good to be true, it's prolly not the Gospel.

the God Who makes the demands (Law), met the demands (Gospel).

♥

I love you mom.....psycho or not your awesome. I could listen to you talk about the gospel all day. Bless you lord for this living vessel of truth that glorifies you so beautifully.

Thank you Lord that you call us to come to you as little children. .that you will make known the true knowledge of you. That you sanctify us into your image do that we can glory in you and glorify you in our flesh.

Oh lord you are simply magnificent.

 

[crossnote]

I am seriously troubled by the way this discussion is going. Please take a break and read Galatians 5:14-26.

With love,
Billy

But that is just one passage from the NT; you have to take in the WHOLE bible.

 

[psychomom]

Christians: Law from Moses and Grace from "Jesus"

Christians (that is mainstream, traditional for the past 1700 years) use this verse consistently to state that "Jesus" grace replaced Moses' Law".

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Y'shua the Messiah.

Christians proudly throw this verse at you: but there is only one problem: the word "but" in italics was not in the original text - no, it was added by the translators and changed the entire concept. This is how it is better translated:

John 1:17 For the was was given by Moses, grace and truth came by Y'shua the Messiah.

YHWH used Moses to give His instructions and then He used His Son to explain them, grace and truth are in the Torah and when Jesus came it was not new.

Now follow YHWH's rules on Grace:

#1) Sin=Transgression of the Torah (1 John 3:4)
#2) The soul that sins (disobeys Torah) shall die (Ezekiel 18:4, Rom 6:23)
#3) The curse for disobeying Torah is death. (Deut 27:26, 28:15,45)
#4) Forgiveness for disobeying Torah is NOT deserved. It is the grace/mercy of YHWH to do so (Exod 34:6)
#5) Jesus showed us this grace/mercy of the Torah by forgiving us of our sin (Matt 9:6)
#6) We are forgiven of our sin when we confess our sin (1 John 1:9)
#7) The blood of Messiah cleanses us from sin (1 John 1:7, Eph 1:7, Col 1:14)
#8) The Torah is truth (Psalm 119:142, 151)
#9) YHWH shows grace/mercy to those that seek to keep His commandments (Ex 20:6, Psalm 103:17-18, John 14:15)

Exodus 34:6 also tells us that YHWH is merciful and gracious: "And YHWH passed by before him, and proclaimed, YHWH, YHWH God, merciful and gracious, longsuffering, and abundant in goodness and truth."

How is YHWH merciful and gracious? Let us read it again and drop the "but".

John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, grace and truth came by Y'shua Messiah.

This verse actually tells us that Moses indeed delivered the Torah to the nation of Israel, but Messiah Y'shua shows us the grace (love, compassion, mercy, forgiveness of sins) and truth (how to live a Torah life-style) of the Torah.

The Law is Grace and Grace came before the Law.

Deu 7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deu 7:10 And repayeth them that hate him to their face, to destroy them: he will not be slack to him that hateth him, he will repay him to his face.
Deu 7:11 Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.

please don't misunderstand me...i'm not saying the Lord Jesus replaced the Law.

i'm saying He fulfilled it for us.
He kept it perfectly in our place.

He did for us what we could never, ever do for ourselves.
does that make sense?

 

[WomanLovesTX]

In response to:
Deuteronomy 6:25 - And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. Observing to do the law of commandments was Israel's righteousness.

Now as the body of Christ, the church, we receive our righteousness NOT FROM OBEYING THE LAW but through faith in Jesus Christ.

All have sinned, so how do you explain this?

Luk 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

 

[Angelique]

please don't misunderstand me...i'm not saying the Lord Jesus replaced the Law.

i'm saying He fulfilled it for us.
He kept it perfectly in our place.

He did for us what we could never, ever do for ourselves.
does that make sense?

Yeppers!!!

Make sense to me...

Makes me love Him more and more.. my perfect Jesus. My perfect saviour.. My Lord and King.

I dont have to do anything but keep my eyes on Him.. He draws me deeper and deeper into His perfection. . And bought me from the pit with a price that only He could pay.

Amen

 

[psychomom]

I love you mom.....psycho or not your awesome. I could listen to you talk about the gospel all day. Bless you lord for this living vessel of truth that glorifies you so beautifully.

Thank you Lord that you call us to come to you as little children. .that you will make known the true knowledge of you. That you sanctify us into your image do that we can glory in you and glorify you in our flesh.

Oh lord you are simply magnificent.

oh, amen! we confess, Lord God, that it's all about You and Your great glory!
that You would come down...take on human flesh and frailty...it's too wondrous for us to comprehend!
thank You that You promised to be faithful to complete the good work You began.
we rest in You and You only.
magnify Yourself among us, for Jesus' sake!

 

[WomanLovesTX]

In response to:
Deuteronomy 6:25 - And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us. Observing to do the law of commandments was Israel's righteousness.

Now as the body of Christ, the church, we receive our righteousness NOT FROM OBEYING THE LAW but through faith in Jesus Christ.

Or how do you explain these verses?

Exo_20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Deu_5:10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.
Deu_7:9 Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;
Deu_11:1 Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.
Deu_11:13 And it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul,
Deu_11:22 For if ye shall diligently keep all these commandments which I command you, to do them, to love the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to cleave unto him;
Deu_19:9 If thou shalt keep all these commandments to do them, which I command thee this day, to love the LORD thy God, and to walk ever in his ways; then shalt thou add three cities more for thee, beside these three:
Deu_30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Jos_22:5 But take diligent heed to do the commandment and the law, which Moses the servant of the LORD charged you, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in all his ways, and to keep his commandments, and to cleave unto him, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Neh_1:5 And said, I beseech thee, O LORD God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:
Psa_119:127 Therefore I love thy commandments above gold; yea, above fine gold.
Dan_9:4 And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

 

[crossnote]

You come to one or the other...not both.

Hebrews 12:18-25 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

 

[WomanLovesTX]

You come to one or the other...not both.

Hebrews 12:18-25 For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest,
And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more:
(For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:
And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake:
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.
See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:

See to it we Christians do not turn away from Him that speaketh from heaven and His Words are recorded in the Torah and through the life of Y'shua.

 

[Billyd]

But that is just one passage from the NT; you have to take in the WHOLE bible.

Sometimes I just like to take one passage, pray over it, then follow the old King James Concordance to find it's relationship to the remainder of the Bible. If you have a little time on your hands try it. It won't save us, but everyone should take the time to study the relationships between the Old and New Testaments. It gives us a much greater understanding of the New Testament.

 

[jdbear]

Also, the book of Isaiah shows true work and purpose of the law, as it always was in truth. Often people then, as now, read it only legally, or by the letter of the law. Some people even say God wrote it that way in the first place, even though we are taught that God didn't do that.

Right. Jesus loved His Father's law and corrected all who disobeyed it, especially those who should have known better. So did Paul.