The "Impossible" Gospel
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Well, I can make the Bible say anything that I want it to say when I post half of the verse and out of context to try and prove something that doesn't exist...
1. Context...willfully forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some
2. Counts the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing
3. Expect judgment in your physical life
John said it best...If they go OUT FROM US...they NEVER WERE OF US...so...this partial verse out of context does not teach that you cannot be forgiven from willful sin as most sins are willful!
1. Context...willfully forsaking the assembling of ourselves together as the manner of some
2. Counts the blood of Jesus a common ordinary base thing
3. Expect judgment in your physical life
John said it best...If they go OUT FROM US...they NEVER WERE OF US...so...this partial verse out of context does not teach that you cannot be forgiven from willful sin as most sins are willful!
In Romans 1:13-32 are these people that Paul is describing all Jews or both Gentiles/Greeks and Jews? I'll keep that in mind.
13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto ,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written , The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen , being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful ; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened .
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools ,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator , who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another ; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet .
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient ;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
And also was Paul speaking to the Jews or Gentiles in Galatians 4:9?
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"
13 Now I would not have you ignorant, brethren, that oftentimes I purposed to come unto you, (but was let hitherto ,) that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among other Gentiles.
14 I am debtor both to the Greeks, and to the Barbarians; both to the wise, and to the unwise.
15 So, as much as in me is, I am ready to preach the gospel to you that are at Rome also.
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth ; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written , The just shall live by faith.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen , being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful ; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened .
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools ,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator , who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another ; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet .
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient ;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
And also was Paul speaking to the Jews or Gentiles in Galatians 4:9?
"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?"
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This better? (smile) the original
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
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The point of willful sin is that it requires repentance and not sacrifice, for if we sin willfully after receiving Christ, there is no more sacrifice.
Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth (Torah), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Sin is transgression of the Torah 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. )
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Heb_10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth (Torah), there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, (Sin is transgression of the Torah 1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. )
Mat 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
1Ti 1:12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
1Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.
Psa 51:16 For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it: thou delightest not in burnt offering.
Psa 51:17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit: a broken and a contrite heart, O God, thou wilt not despise.
Well the same wrote...
When I go to do good I find a law that SIN IS PRESENT WITH ME
HE also said he was the number 1 chief sinner
and John wrote...
If we say that we HAVE NO SIN
so..reject he premise that most sins are choice and by your definition all will be lost..
DID DAVID CHOOSE to take BATHSHEBA, DID DAVID CHOOSE to send URIAH to the front line and then have the soldiers retire from him so he would be killed MURDER?
YET DAVID'S SIN WAS FORGIVEN
Your theology lacks credence and truthfulness!
I will add that DAVID knew what he had done was SIN and when he heard the story from NATHAN knew the punishment was DEATH!
When I go to do good I find a law that SIN IS PRESENT WITH ME
HE also said he was the number 1 chief sinner
and John wrote...
If we say that we HAVE NO SIN
so..reject he premise that most sins are choice and by your definition all will be lost..
DID DAVID CHOOSE to take BATHSHEBA, DID DAVID CHOOSE to send URIAH to the front line and then have the soldiers retire from him so he would be killed MURDER?
YET DAVID'S SIN WAS FORGIVEN
Your theology lacks credence and truthfulness!
I will add that DAVID knew what he had done was SIN and when he heard the story from NATHAN knew the punishment was DEATH!
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Are you comparing the spirit of bickering and backbiters that goes on with many "professing" Christians are in the same spirit that Jesus, John the Baptist, Paul and Moses had?
Unless one is Born Again, the Bible way, then nothing else really matters. And, Born Again as outlined in post #172 which is the New Testament plan of salvation.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
God bless!
David repented, as you are aware. It takes ALL of these scriptures not some. We are forgiven for sin, even if it is willful. We have fleshly desires that lead us to sin. We must repent from our willful sin, not identify ourselves with them. All of these scriptures. And get your pointy finger out of my face if you don't mind!!
Mostly no disagreement here, with the exception of "by your definition all will be lost.." Our definition of lost may be different. We are lost if we have not accepted the free gift of salvation and repented of our sins, and then continue to repent as we discover those things God calls sinning. My personal experience is that God was merciful with my sins knowing that one day I would have a heart that desires to please Him and guard His Torah by obeying all that I can (seeing how I'm not a Levitical priest, a farmer, etc.) I encourage others to find life worth living through YHWH's Torah that Y'shua upheld and filled up the correct meaining. If one is still in ignorance, is he/she accountable for unknown sins? No, God is merciful, gracious and slow to anger and He knows what is best for us and how wie will choose. Are you saying that "all will be lost" if they have knowledge of Torah and in rebellion prefer to keep their man-made traditions and doctrines over what YHWH has asked of us? Perhaps that is the unpardonable sin?
K
Elin, I thought you knew Paul backwards and forward. ..a little disappointed here, but oh well.
Romans 11:1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
and also Paul said..
1 Corinthians 13
1. I may speak in the tongues of men, even angels;
but if I lack love, I have become merely
blaring brass or a cymbal clanging.
Romans 11:1 I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel?
18. Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
and also Paul said..
1 Corinthians 13
1. I may speak in the tongues of men, even angels;
but if I lack love, I have become merely
blaring brass or a cymbal clanging.