The MAIN "Divider" Of denominations!

Pilgrimshope · Jun 13, 2021

what ot ritual water baptism ? There’s no ordinance of baptism found in the Old Testament only promises of it to come forth with the messiahs messenger . John the Baptist began baptizing for remission of sins when the gospel came forth.

there’s only the figure of baptism that foretold Christ they however were baptized into Moses not by ritual but by faith when they passed through the sea and stood before the cloud. ( water and spirit )

“Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:1-2‬ ‭

It wasn’t a ritual in the law it was that they heard God tell them to cross the sea he held up for them and they believed and crossed safely as he told them they would that’s a figure of baptism for us . Had they not bothered to cross the sea like God told them they would have been captured and killed by Egypt again there may have been some telling the others the waters would drown them even ....

There’s no ritual I’m aware of if you are please share it in the ot for baptism which seems to be the beginning basis for your argument. It doesn’t seem like crossing the sea God parted for them was a ritual or work of law ot seems like they believed and obeyed and were saved from the pursuing army set to destroy them .

that’s New Testament doctrine based on Gods promises of remission in the prophets he’s saving us from the devils pursuit of our souls when we get baptized satans dominion over our flesh is taken so We can be set free in Christs

like israel Passed through the sea and escaped Egypt and then the waters destroyed the enemies grasp on the people so baptism into Christs death the New Testament doctrine is to cross over from the old to the new

we in Christ are to be baptized in water as an act of faith because Gods word says this it’s the only reason one should get baptized because they believe what God said our getting baptized into Christ and pass through the waters he told us about

“For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s a fact but this is what he said about it himself that’s applicable to mankind’s salvstion

“He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at what point should a Christian , disbelieve Jesus word , for the sake of another’s arguments against its truth and infallibility ? Which rises up centuries later ....Isn’t that what Adam did too ?

God said something clear that offered Adam life by Gods own decree himself to
Man. But then another word comes to steal away his faith and explain by its. It believable what he said offering another route that he never put in place for mankind.

Jesus came to tell Man how to be saved , baptism is just one thing we’re supposed to hear about and believe because of we do this is going to be how faith reacts it’s a fruit of believing what he said

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

....Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41, 47‬ ‭

it’s good news That God has offered remission of our sins , it’s never going to benefit us if we refuse to hear and believe , but on the other hand

“And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭5:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s not Old Testament stuff it’s for the edification of the church. And eternal salvation baptism comes because we hear about it and believe what Gods word declares our remission of sins who wouldn’t respond to the good news of the gospel and be saved is mysterious to me but I think it’s here

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?

So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We have to hear the word like about baptism and believe

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

faith works when we believe not when we doubt

GRACE_ambassador · Jun 13, 2021

Gideon300 said:

Precious friend, thanks for your kind and loving input, though we Disagree.
I believe it is the ecumenical movement that is calling for "unity and love,"
so that we can "reach the world," Correct? But, is not this at the expense of
"ignoring God's Doctrines"?

Now, if we "don't see doctrine {i.e: Triune GodHead And Salvation,
HIS BLOOD and Resurrection} as Most Important, and getting them
Right," then how can UNbelievers get saved in the first place, and
then work toward "unity and love"? What then happens, after salvation,
IF there is never "unity" in teaching What God Says About Doctrine? i.e:

(1) "All Scripture is...Profitable for Doctrine..." (2 Timothy 3 : 16 KJB!)
{Interesting, is it not, That God's Order = "...For DOCTRINE, for reproof,
for correction, for instruction in righteousness..." That couldn't mean
HE Says IT IS "THE MOST Important" of These Four, or Could It?}

(2) We should all {in "unity"?}:
"...speak thou the things which become Sound Doctrine:" (Titus 2 : 1 KJB!)

(3) Probably worst of all, is THIS:

Rom 16:17 "Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause
divisions and offences contrary to the DOCTRINE which ye have
learned; and avoid them."

Seems to me IF we don't Consider God's Doctrines More Important,
then we may have love, but the unity, I fear, is not going to be had
until The Day Of Glorification, When we are all "united" in heaven.

q: Is not "studying/speaking Sound Doctrine" Considered good works
along with "unity and love," to be tried By Fire, On Judgment Day?
---------------------------------------

At this time, seems there are "4 of us voting NO" {unity and love?},
and a couple of 3? "seekers for More Scriptural {Doctrinal?} Evidence,"
Before they make their final decision on this Important Matter.

I am kinda surprised that the "yes" voters (Acts 2 : 38?), haven't
shown up yet. When they do are they not going to have the
Following DOCTRINAL problem of sorting out WHICH of these
"denominational/religious traditions" is Correct?

1) believe AND be baptized
{i.e. immersion to contact their Christ's blood}?

(2) immersion with a symbolic interpretation?

(3) immersion ONCE in the "name of Jesus?

(4) immersion THRICE in the "name of the Triune Godhead?

(5) immersion {whether once or thrice} for "membership" in
their traditional assembly?

(6) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into religion
washing away their original sin?

(7) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into some covenant?

(8) sprinkling water on babies inducting them into their parent's custody
that they promise to raise them right? {into Mass Confusion?}

(9) sprinkling water on babies, admitting that their ritual is
UNscriptural, but "we do it anyway, because it is OUR tradition!"?

(10) pouring water onto babies or adults for Whatever
traditional reason religion "can come up with"?
-----------------------
To be fair, Most of these probably have, By God's GRACE, "unity and love"
within THEIR OWN particular groups/sects, BUT Obviously they ALL, IF
Any of them are, cannot be correct, Correct?

q: For all who vote "yes": Are any of these "Approved Unto God"?

For those of us who say "NO!," ALL these problems IMMEDIATELY disappear!
God's Scriptural {Doctrinal} Evidence, Especially for humble seekers, is here:
12 baptisms and here: ONE Baptism

Be Blessed!

Nebuchadnezzer · Jun 13, 2021

GRACE_ambassador said:

I disagree. Satan is the main divider. Satan imparts error, and it is errors that divides us.

JBTN · Jun 14, 2021

throughfaith said:

This is how a Messianic Jewish Theologian translated Acts 2:38. Notice he doesn’t see a water immersion. The immersion is into forgiveness of sins.

“Kefa answered them, “Turn from sin, return to God, and each of you be immersed on the authority of Yeshua the Messiah into forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Ruach HaKodesh!”
‭‭Acts of Emissaries of Yeshua (Act)‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭CJB‬‬
https://www.bible.com/1275/act.2.38.cjb

GRACE_ambassador · Jun 14, 2021

oyster67 said:

Deuteronomy said:

JohnRH said:

Wansvic said:

Thanks so much for your "yeses," but none of you voted in the poll. Actually,
votes don't matter {political majority rules?}, but Scriptures, Rightly Divided,
Approved Unto God, Are The Only Thing That Matters And Rules, Correct?

You do realize, of course, that Only the "NO's" are in unity, with no Division
on This Important Matter, Correct? "Yes" Problems I have gathered so far
are here #22, {And, seems Highly UNlikely there will ever be "unity" for The
Entire {GRACE!} Body Of CHRIST, With only ONE Baptism until Glory, eh?}

But hey, there is always "this doctrine," eh?:

ResidentAlien said:

So, it's ok to ignore 1 Corinthians 1 : 9-10, In Scripture, eh?
-------------
So, is water baptism an OT ritual that is "for the remission of sins"? Yes,
For ISRAEL Only! Why not Carefully Examine ALL Of God's Evidence?
{ Borrowed/posted here, for your Convenience, from my "study" (which
Still has MANY UNanswered questions for "yes" voters): 12 baptisms }:

One of "ISRAEL's {divers [Various] washings" Gr. BAPTISMOS (Heb. 9:10)

4. Levitical priesthood baptism (Exodus_29:4;
Leviticus_8:6; Numbers_8:7!). This washing was The Second
Requirement {The First being: "NO blemish!" (Leviticus_21:21!)},
in order to become a priest under the Law of Moses!

Is this baptism in any way connected To baptism # 9?

================================------------------------

9. "water baptism of repentance FOR remission of sin," that John
preached (Before The Cross), And Peter continued (After The Cross!),
to preach! (Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31;
Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37; Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16;
Acts_2:38; Acts_22:16; Ezekiel_36:25!).

a) Does this baptism “save” anyone (Luke_7:29-30!)?
-------------------------------------------------
b1) Is this baptism in any way "connected" to baptism # 4?

b2) Wasn't John preparing National Israel for God's Promise For
them “to be a nation of priests unto God" (Exodus_19:6!)?

b3) Was not The Second Requirement for priesthood induction,
Washing? { may require re-review of baptism #4! }.

b4) Did not CHRIST And The Twelve heal everyone in Israel who came to
them, in order to meet “The FIRST Requirement” For the priesthood, that
Of NO blemish!? (Matthew_4:24; Acts_5:16 cp Leviticus_21:21!).
-------------------------------------------------------------------
c) Is this baptism for today? IF "you believe this baptism is FOR US"
Today, then, we have Several More Questions:

c1) Why does NO ONE Today, teach, as John ( Under The LAW! ),
Claimed: it is FOR “making CHRIST Manifest To Israel” (John_1:31!)?

c2) Why does {Almost} NO ONE Today, “Confess their sins,”
when they come to This baptism (Matthew_3:6; Mark_1:5!)?

c3) Why do not ALL Divided “denominations who WATER baptize”
today, agree AS ONE {UNITY}, And teach water as John, CHRIST, And
The Twelve ( Under The LAW! ), “taught That water baptism Is FOR
The Remission Of sins!” (Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; Acts_2:38!).

{ instead of each one’s own “DIVIDED/symbolic Re-Interpreted Traditions!” }?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Not apologizing for all the questions = I {and probably a FEW others, who are
SEEKERS?!}, want The Truth, The WHOLE Truth, And NOTHING BUT "The Truth!"
------------------------------------------------------------------
Baptism Of Anointing?:

10. Pentecostal Spirit baptism
This is the baptism "WITH" The Holy Spirit, BY JESUS CHRIST,
From Heaven, Poured Out Upon the believing remnant of Israel,
with signs and powers following!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38; Acts_8:15-17; Acts_11:16!).

And, is not THIS The THIRD Requirement For "priesthood induction" =
Anointing? (compare Exodus_29:7; Leviticus_8:10-12!).

a) Is God Performing "This" Baptism On us TODAY?

b) IF YOU believe you "are in the priesthood," are you Absolutely
SURE that YOU have MET ALL THREE of God's Requirements?
================================================================
Again, for the humble "seekers" { crossnote, soberxp, DeanM ???},
God's Evidence Of ONE BAPTISM, For Today, is here: ONE Baptism

Be Blessed!

throughfaith · Jun 14, 2021

JBTN said:

Why do you think it says this though?
38¶Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

JBTN · Jun 14, 2021

throughfaith said:

I don’t know why it was translated that way. When you look at the definitions of the Greek words, the CJB translation appears to be more accurate. It takes the emphasis away from the immersion and links repentance to forgiveness of sins. Think about Luke 24:47.

“Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written about me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures, and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead, and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-47‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/59/luk.24.44-47.esv

Jesus didn’t include Baptism in water in Luke 24:47. Jesus said that repentance for the forgiveness of sins was to be proclaimed in his name to all nations. Did Peter intend to change that to baptism. You often hear baptism for the remission of sins proclaimed today. Think about what Peter said when he visited Cornelius.

“To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:43‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/59/act.10.43.esv

If metanoia means a change of mind then Acts 10:43 and Luke 24:47 agree, and they don’t mention water immersion. Did Peter say something different in Acts 2:38, or did he say the same thing?

Jocund · Jun 14, 2021

The baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is not an OT ritual.

JBTN · Jun 14, 2021

throughfaith said:

This is where I first ran across this translation of Acts 2:38. Since then I have cross referenced the meanings of the words and haven’t been able to prove this wrong. Then I found the CJB translation of the Bible which translates Acts 2:38 in essentially the same way. So he isn’t the only person who sees it this way. Very interested to hear if anyone can show this to be wrong.

http://www.wiebefamily.org/Acts_2-38_baptism.htm

throughfaith · Jun 15, 2021

JBTN said:

I believe its fine as it written. The Jews Peter is addressing are told to be water baptized so that they may receive the Holy Spirit . To their Children and to all JEWS who are afar off . This is chapter 2 of a transitional book .

Just like Acts 2 .38 shouldn't be treated as a prescription neither should what happened here be either . Laying on of hands to recieve the Holy Spirit, as an authorisation of the transition to Samaritans .
14¶Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8

JBTN · Jun 15, 2021

throughfaith said:

I believe its fine as it written. The Jews Peter is addressing are told to be water baptized so that they may receive the Holy Spirit . To their Children and to all JEWS who are afar off . This is chapter 2 of a transitional book .

Just like Acts 2 .38 shouldn't be treated as a prescription neither should what happened here be either . Laying on of hands to recieve the Holy Spirit, as an authorisation of the transition to Samaritans .
14¶Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
Acts 8

What do you think about this article? If anyone has any thoughts please share them.

https://terminalsalvation.com/2015/...he-3000-get-baptized-on-the-day-of-pentecost/

throughfaith · Jun 15, 2021

JBTN said:

In light of that ,what about Acts 8 ?
14¶Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18¶And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

JBTN · Jun 15, 2021

Your first sentence about the Jews being told to be water baptized is what I was commenting on. The article lays out a reason to doubt that actual water baptisms took place with the 3000 on Pentecost because it would have violated the restrictions on doing any customary work on Pentecost. Remember how the Jews took issue with Jesus in John 5 for telling a man to take up his bed. It seems unlikely that they would have allowed anyone to violate the work rules on Pentecost by baptizing 3000 people. It’s another reason why the baptisms on Pentecost could have been immersions into forgiveness of sins and not immersions into water.

Acts 1:8 tells us that the Apostles had to be the witnesses in Samaria. So yes, that appears to be transitional.

“He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority. But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:7-8‬ ‭ESV‬‬
https://www.bible.com/59/act.1.7-8.esv

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2021

throughfaith said:

And Paul, and the Gentiles, and the Samaritans, and the Ephesian disciples. Every recorded water baptism was done in the name of the Lord Jesus:

Acts 2:38-39 (Jewish)
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

Acts 8:12-17 (Samaritans-half jewish-half gentile)
But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
(For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

Acts 10:44-48 (Gentiles)
While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.

Acts 11:13-14
And he shewed us how he had seen an angel in his house, which stood and said unto him, Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon, whose surname is Peter;
Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

Acts 19:2-6 (Disciples who did not realize they had to water baptized in Jesus name)
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

Acts 22:14-16 (Paul's water baptism)
And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2021

throughfaith said:

See post #34

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2021

14meatcc said:

That's great. However, the need for people to be water baptized in Jesus' name for the remission of sin did not cease. Jesus Himself told the disciples to go forth and, teach and water baptize.

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2021

JaumeJ said:

John the Baptist introduced the NT water baptism. However, water baptisms were to be administered in the name of the Lord Jesus after Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. (Luke 24:47) Upon obedience believers are spiritually buried with the Lord Jesus in water baptism as mandated by God.

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

Forerunners of the Roman Catholic Church also made a change to water baptism in 325 A.D. They required water baptisms to be done in the name of the Father, and the Son and the Holy Ghost. In doing so they removed the requirement for EVERYONE to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus that the disciples consistently required. (Acts 2:38-41, 8:12-18, 10:44-48, 19:1-6, 22:16) Brings to mind Acts 4:12, Salvation exists in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” The Lord Jesus Christ.

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2021

JBTN said:

In Luke 24:47 Jesus states that repentance and remission of sin would be preached in his name beginning in Jerusalem. This occurred when Peter said EVERYONE was to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus for the remission of sin. Keep in mind that John the Baptist introduced water baptism for repentance. However, after Jesus death, burial and resurrection water baptism was to be administered in his name. Acts 19:1-6 states this specifically. Paul tells the Ephesus disciples that were water baptized by John the Baptist that they had to be re-baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. After complying Paul lays hands on them in order that they receive the Holy Ghost as well.

The exchange between Peter and Cornelius connects forgiveness of sins with Jesus' name as well. Peter's comment is true. Everyone who believes in Jesus will in fact receive forgiveness of their sins through Jesus name; in water baptism.

Wansvic · Jun 18, 2021

Jocund said:

Water baptism was changed to the Father and Son and Holy Ghost in 325 A.D. From biblical times, until then, water baptism was only administered in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a well known fact as recorded in many historical encyclopedias. The Roman Catholic Church admits that it's forerunners made the change. Also, they currently have a list of all their supposed "daughter" churches that comply with their form of water baptism.

The word states that everything done in word and deed should be done in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The MAIN "Divider" Of denominations!

Does God Require His OT "ritual" of water baptism, for us, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE?

NO

Need More Scriptural Evidence to make my decision

Don't care

yes

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