The New Covenant Is Not What Many Have Been Taught

[Mem]

Why is that lawlessness?

What is the will of the Father?

This effectually acted as a bookmark for me in remembering that exact question that occurred to me and earmarked for further consideration.

I've just come from retrieving Hebrews 7:12 and copied it sure that I would need it before I logged in. Even though I had in mind bringing it up for discussion in the thread discussing God's immutability, for whatever reason I stopped by here first (there must be some of my preferred commentators hanging out in here )

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

'While collecting the verse, I reviewed the language and saw that it is distinct from other contexts where the word 'change' is used, but, noting the peculiarity of the definition of the second occurrence in this verse, which includes "disestablished."

So, it would follow reason that if anyone is following a 'disestablished' law, then they are effectually following no law at all, which implies that they are totally ignoring the 'newly' established law.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

This effectually acted as a bookmark for me in remembering that exact question that occurred to me and earmarked for further consideration.

I've just come from retrieving Hebrews 7:12 and copied it sure that I would need it before I logged in. Even though I had in mind bringing it up for discussion in the thread discussing God's immutability, for whatever reason I stopped by here first (there must be some of my favorite commentators hanging out here )

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

'While collecting the verse, I reviewed the language and saw that it is distinct from other contexts where the word 'change' is used, but, noting the peculiarity of the definition of the second occurrence in this verse, which includes "disestablished."

So, it would follow reason that if anyone is following a 'disestablished' law, then they are effectually following no law at all, which implies that they are totally ignoring the 'newly' established law.

If we look at the context of Heb7 it tells us the law its speaking of and why it needed to change. It’s about the preisthood.

Heb 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has [b]officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood.

The law being spoken of is the prieshood. In the law the priesthood came from the tribe of Levi because they were the only tribe who did not participate in the golden calf when Moses went up to get the Ten Commandments after Israel agreed to keep them. Because he delayed they broke the covenant started started worshipping idols.

Jesus came from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, why the law of the priesthood had to change to accommodate Jesus as our High Priest.

 

[Mem]

While collecting the verse, I reviewed the language and saw that it is distinct from other contexts where the word 'change' is used, but, noting the peculiarity of the definition of the second occurrence in this verse, which includes "disestablished."

*correction
the first occurrence I meant... I think

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The law being spoken of is the prieshood. In the law the priesthood came from the tribe of Levi because they were the only tribe who did not participate in the golden image when Moses went up to get the Ten Commandments after Israel agreed to keep them. Because he delayed they broke the covenant started started worshipping idols.

haha the ring leader was Aaron of the tribe of Levi

And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me. And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron. And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt. Exodus 32:2-4​

 

[Mem]

If we look at the context of Heb7 it tells us the law its speaking of and why it needed to change. It’s about the preisthood.

Heb 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has [b]officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood.

The law being spoken of is the prieshood. In the law the priesthood came from the tribe of Levi because they were the only tribe who did not participate in the golden calf when Moses went up to get the Ten Commandments after Israel agreed to keep them. Because he delayed they broke the covenant started started worshipping idols.

Jesus came from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, why the law of the priesthood had to change to accommodate Jesus as our High Priest.

Your view is then the only change is the (law of the) Priesthood, that Jesus is now officiating the law of Moses?

 

[SabbathBlessing]

Your view is then the only change is the (law of the) Priesthood, that Jesus is now officiating the law of Moses?

My view that the context of this passage is about the law of the priesthood changing, its what this chapter is about.

I think there are some misunderstandings between the law of Moses and the law of God. The Ten Commandments is the law of God- God wrote them on stone, God spoke them, God numbered them Deut 4:13 Exo34:28 God called them His Exo20:6 God added no more to them Deut5:22 and called them His Testimony Exo31:18 the only laws that are under His mercy seat Exo25:21 and also in heaven Rev 11:19 Rev15:5 even Moses did not take any credit for them Exo32:16

The law of Moses is everything else except for the Ten Commandments, it came after sin, was written by Moses in a book on paper, placed beside the ark of the covenant Deut31:24-26.

Jesus came to put and end to one law Dan9:27 the law of Moses that contained the animal sacrifices and offerings for sin.

Jesus came to magnify another law - His Isa 42:21 by placing it in our hearts Heb8:10 and showing what it means to keep them using examples right from the Ten Commandments relating of thoughts of anger and contempt to murder as sin starts in the heart, if the heart is changed, the commandments will be kept, why He placed His laws in our hearts and the NC is established on better promises Heb8:6 on He will do, if we cooperate with Him.

 

[Mem]

My view that the context of this passage is about the law of the priesthood changing, its what the entire chapter 7 is about.

I think there are some misunderstandings between the law of Moses and the law of God. The Ten Commandments is the law of God- God wrote them, God spoke them, God numbered them Deut 4:13 God called them His Exo20:10 God added no more them Deut5:22 and called it His Testimony Exo31:18 the only laws that are under His mercy seat Exo25:21 and also in heaven Rev 11:19 Rev15:5

The law of Moses is everything else except for the Ten Commandments, it came after sin, was written by Moses, placed beside the ark of the covenant Deut31:24-26.

Jesus came to put and end to one law Dan9:27 the law of Moses that contained the animal sacrifices and offerings for sin.

Jesus came to magnify another law - His Isa 42:21 by placing it in our hearts Heb8:10 and showing what it means to keeping them using examples right from the Ten Commandments relating of thoughts of anger and contempt to murder as sin starts in the heart, if the heart is changed, the commandments will be kept, why He placed our laws in our hearts and the NC is established on better promises Heb8:6 on He will do, if we cooperate with Him.

I understand your perspective, although it is arguable that all the other law were necessary in supplement to 'abate' the eventual affect of the core of Moses law.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
Here, "love" is 'present subjunctive active' and "keep" is 'future indicative active,' which is in effect saying, "If you love Me now, you will obey Me then."
That is, When? When I (will) write my commandment on your heart.

We have an ongoing relationship with God, Today, now, and don't have to refer 'back' to what He said as He is always with us.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

I understand your perspective, although it is arguable that all the other law were necessary in supplement to 'abate' the eventual affect of the core of Moses law.

John 14:15 "If you love Me, you will keep My commandments."
Here, "love" is 'present subjunctive active' and "keep" is 'future indicative active,' which is in effect saying, "If you love Me now, you will obey Me then."
That is, When? When I (will) write my commandment on your heart.

We have an ongoing relationship with God, now, and don't have to refer 'back' to what He said as He is always with us.

I don’t see this as future, it’s basically what Jesus said in the Ten Commandments.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

1 John5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

The NC is God’s laws written in our hearts and minds Hen8:10 its today!

I don‘t see there is ever a time Jesus does not want us to love Him or not obey Him. He always speaks of today- today is the day of salvation, meaning today we should submit ourselves to Him and obey Him, we do not know what tomorrow brings- Today if we hear His voice do not harden our hearts Heb3:7-19

 

[Mem]

I don’t see this a future, it’s basically what Jesus said in the Ten Commandments.

Exo 20:6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

The NC is God’s laws written in our hearts and minds Hen8:10 its today!

I don‘t see there is ever a time Jesus does not want us to love Him or not obey Him. He always speaks of today- today is the day of salvation, meaning today we should submit ourselves to Him and obey Him, we do not know what tomorrow brings- Today if we hear His voice do not harden our hearts Heb3:7-19

It would be an applicable scenario that would say to someone "I never knew you," if Jesus writes on somebody's heart, and their reply is, "Ok but, I need to check if what you're telling me aligns with the 10 first." This is essentially what the Pharisees did when they concluded that He broke the sabbath.

Peter did this too when God lowered the net, but he was teachable.

 

[posthuman]

Mat 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

could you just for a moment look at what those people are appealing to as reasons Christ should save them?

• they preached
• they contended with demons
• they did many good things

do you see them saying, that they believe in the work Jesus did for them? that they trusted Him?
no.
you see them saying, we did all these good things and we spoke all these fine words.

does that not seem relevant?

yes Jesus says, they did not do the will of God - and He also specifically defines the will of God as this: believe on the One Who was sent.

that's what they did not do, and why He never knew them - they trusted their own works, not His - - - and this is very evident by what they appealed to: their own works, not Christ's work.

 

[memberofthebride]

no; there are people who reject the gospel, and people who do not. people whose trust is in themselves, and people whose trust is in Christ.

no one here 'follows Paul' because they believe the gospel.

so you obey the Torah and keep it as did Christ and the 13 Apostles

 

[SabbathBlessing]

It would be an applicable scenario that would say to someone "I never knew you," if Jesus writes on somebody's heart, and their reply is, "Ok but, I need to check if what you're telling me aligns with the 10 first." This is essentially what the Pharisees did when they concluded that He broke the sabbath.

Peter did this too when God lowered the net, but he was teachable.

The Pharisees did not keep the Ten Commandments, they kept their own man-made traditions over obeying the commandments of God what Jesus condemned Mat15:1-14 Mark7:7-13 as did Paul Rom 2:21-23

Jesus broke the sabbath of the Pharisees, not the Sabbath in the commandments of God. They were adding and taking from God’s commandments, something we are told not to Deut 4:2 Ecc 3:14 Mat5:19 why Jesus said our righteousness has to exceed theirs Mat5:20, because they were depending on their own man-made laws and not the works of God Exo32:16

When the Ten Commandments was external, written on stone the people couldn’t keep them, so He internalized them, writing them in our heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 and its no longer based on what we will do, He said I will write them on your heart and if you love me, keep My commandments, and I will give you another Helper, the Spirit of truth John14:15-18 - does Jesus still want us to keep them, of course- He said not to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 He does not change, but He is now the one who is helping us keep them, we still need to cooperate with Him through love, He will never force us, it has to come from the heart.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

1 John2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God [a]is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

 

[posthuman]

No, its taken out of context, its not just a one time thing of saying Lord, its calling on the Lord daily to guide ones life, putting away sin Rom 6:1-4, which is breaking the law of God and living for Him. When we do, we call on Him daily because He is the center of our lives. Its a lifestyle, not a word.

Salvation is resurrecting us from the dead - - both spiritually in a renewal of our hearts and minds beginning when we believe, and literally physically raising us on that day.

how much are we expecting a corpse to do?

when He said Lazarus come forth was it possible for Lazarus to disobey? did Lazarus play a role in being raised from the dead? you know he was bound hand and foot in grave clothes, right? and a corpse?

it was the will and the power of God that brought Lazarus forth in obedient reply, not the power of Lazarus, not the will of Lazarus.

 

[Mem]

The Pharisees did not keep the Ten Commandments, they kept their own man-made traditions over obeying the commandments of God what Jesus condemned Mat15:1-14 Mark7:7-13 as did Paul Rom 2:21-23

Jesus broke the sabbath of the Pharisees, not the Sabbath in the commandments of God. They were adding and taking from God’s commandments, something we are told not to Deut 4:2 Ecc 3:14 Mat5:19 why Jesus said our righteousness has to exceed theirs Mat5:20, because they were depending on their own man-made laws and not the works of God Exo32:16

When the Ten Commandments was external, written on stone the people couldn’t keep them, so He internalized them, writing them in our heart 2Cor3:3 Heb8:10 and its no longer based on what we will do, He said I will write them on your heart and if you love me, keep My commandments, and I will give you another Helper, the Spirit of truth John14:15-18 - does Jesus still want us to keep them, of course- He said not to break the least of these commandments Mat5:19-30 He does not change, but He is now the one who is helping us keep them, we still need to cooperate with Him through love, He will never force us, it has to come from the heart.

What value do they have against the indulgence of the flesh. None, they condemn you every time you sin. They might be able to keep you alive for a spell but eventually, it's inevitable that you'll fall asleep on guard duty and your flesh will rule over you and then what?

However,
Colossians 2 13When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

You've philosophy designates you as the star forward while Christ sits at second team rooting you on as a benchwarmer.

 

[Dino246]

If we look at the context of Heb7 it tells us the law its speaking of and why it needed to change. It’s about the preisthood.

Heb 7:11 Therefore, if perfection were through the Levitical priesthood (for under it the people received the law), what further need was there that another priest should rise according to the order of Melchizedek, and not be called according to the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law. 13 For He of whom these things are spoken belongs to another tribe, from which no man has [b]officiated at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord arose from Judah, of which tribe Moses spoke nothing concerning [c]priesthood.

The law being spoken of is the prieshood.

Jesus came from the tribe of Judah, not Levi, why the law of the priesthood had to change to accommodate Jesus as our High Priest.

The priesthood is not a "law". Under the Sinai covenant, the priesthood was established by the law to mediate between the people and God. That priesthood only worked in reference to the Sinai law. The law didn't change "to accommodate Jesus"; that would be a violation of the law.

The priesthood of Melchizedek, in which Jesus stands, has no connection to the Sinai law. The Levitical priesthood ended spiritually when the high priest tore his robe in front of Jesus; he was forbidden from doing so. Jesus, the high priest of the new covenant, presented the offering of His own blood at the heavenly altar, making a once-for-all sacrifice for sin. The Sinai law ended and the new covenant was established.

The problem with every Judaizer is they try to live under the Sinai law instead of under the new covenant in Christ's blood. They drag bits and pieces of the old covenant along like tin cans behind a wedding car. They disregard the impossibility of following the law today, but insist that it is "not too difficult" (Deut. 30:11).

The priesthood was changed. The law was changed. It's time for you to catch up with the program.

 

[SabbathBlessing]

The priesthood is not a "law". Under the Sinai covenant, the priesthood was established by the law to mediate between the people and God. That priesthood only worked in reference to the Sinai law. The law didn't change "to accommodate Jesus"; that would be a violation of the law.

The priesthood of Melchizedek, in which Jesus stands, has no connection to the Sinai law. The Levitical priesthood ended spiritually when the high priest tore his robe in front of Jesus; he was forbidden from doing so. Jesus, the high priest of the new covenant, presented the offering of His own blood at the heavenly altar, making a once-for-all sacrifice for sin. The Sinai law ended and the new covenant was established.

The problem with every Judaizer is they try to live under the Sinai law instead of under the new covenant in Christ's blood. They drag bits and pieces of the old covenant along like tin cans behind a wedding car. They disregard the impossibility of following the law today, but insist that it is "not too difficult" (Deut. 30:11).

The priesthood was changed. The law was changed. It's time for you to catch up with the program.

Jesus came from the tribe of Judah, but the law said the priests had to come from Levi. Obviously the law of the priesthood had to change to accommodate Jesus being our High Priest, we can read about this in Hebrews 7

 

[Dino246]

Jesus came from the tribe of Judah, but the law said the priests had to come from Levi. Obviously the law of the priesthood had to change to accommodate Jesus being our High Priest, we can read about this in Hebrews 7

You've drawn a conclusion that requires a violation of the Law. That's untenable. Nowhere in Scripture does it state or even hint that the law was changed for the purpose of accommodating Jesus as a priest.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Jesus came from the tribe of Judah, but the law said the priests had to come from Levi. Obviously the law of the priesthood had to change to accommodate Jesus being our High Priest, we can read about this in Hebrews 7

The whole law had to be changed. Can't pick and choose.

For the priesthood being changed, out of necessity also a change of law takes place. Hebrews 7:12​

 

[SabbathBlessing]

What value do they have against the indulgence of the flesh. None, they condemn you every time you sin. They might be able to keep you alive for a spell but eventually, it's inevitable that you'll fall asleep on guard duty and your flesh will rule over you and then what?

However,
Colossians 2 13When you were dead in your trespasses and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our trespasses, 14having canceled the debt ascribed to us in the decrees that stood against us. He took it away, nailing it to the cross! 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.

You've philosophy designates you as the star forward while Christ sits at second team rooting you on as a benchwarmer.

The law of the Ten Commandments does not do anything but show us our true condition and reveals sin Rom 3:20 Rom7:7 and our need for Jesus to cleanse us. Removing the law is not going to help anyone, because it doesn't take away sins, it just covers our sins Pro28:13 if we see that we are sinners, than we know we need Jesus to help us in cleansing our sins 1John1:9 and help us forsake them- turning from sin. Removing the law just covers our sins, seems like a bad idea to me Heb10:26-30

Why would the law to only worship God make someone else a star over Jesus, or only using His name in a holy manner make someone else a star over Jesus. Why doing the opposite of what He asks, not put light on Him when in reality its the opposite. Jesus is love and He is the example of what that looks like, giving up His own life for us. He asks for so little, but when we can’t find it in our hearts to do so, its saying we love self, more than He, and its the opposite of love. John14:14 1John5:3 John15:10 Exo20:6

I think you might be confusing the role of circumcision with the Ten Commandments. I can provide more Scripture but not sure you are that interested. I am okay agreeing to disagree but wish you well.